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OldBlondie

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This is it, from Dr J. And its just dawned on me that the meeting is held on the same day someone filed a Datix form in which Child O 'suddenly and unexpectedly collapsed'

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A meeting of a consultants was held on June 29, 2016, the court heard.

Dr Jayaram said: “After a number of further unusual, unexplained and inexplicable events on the neo-natal unit the whole consultant body sat down and said ‘we really need to work out what is going on here’.

He said that “one thing that came up in our discussion” was air embolism – when gas bubbles enter a vein or artery and can block blood supply.

Dr Jayaram said it prompted him that evening to conduct a literature search in which he found a research paper which described the effects of air embolism.

He said: “I remember sitting on my sofa at home with the iPad and reading that description, and the physical chill that went down my spine because it fitted with what we were seeing.”

Dr Jayaram emailed colleagues a link to the research paper the next day.

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would the ‘whole consultant body’ include a love struck registrar? I presume not.
It’s all really starting to fall into place now. After the prosecution finish baby Q, I expect them to go through all the other evidence such as the note, and any other witnesses, and at this point I think they’ll tie it all neatly together and there will be a slight gotcha moment near the very end. I really do believe the prosecution are going to end this (to quote LL🙄) with a bang, watch this space!
 
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Haveyouanywool

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I have actually seen a grown man go deathly white and swoon into a faint after seeing a small cut on his hand, so I know it happens.
But a nurse who’s seen blood smeared over babies faces and splattered over bodies faints when having blood taken? Call me a cynic, but I’m not buying it.
There’s already talk about poor baby P’s death in A&E, sounds more like a strategic swoon to me. It also bagged her a run home from Dr Noname, although interestingly, he didn’t get an invite in for coffee.
 
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OldBlondie

VIP Member
I genuinely feel sick reading what he said.
She went from being almost as upset as the parents to this.

Do you think she knew what the consultants were saying and doing? Or had any Inkling?

To be so cocky and confident just makes me feel ill.
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This is partly why I’m also convinced she’s a psychopath, can go from one extreme to the other very quickly. And this is why I think the salsa classes, and the bet on the grand national etc have been brought up, they show that she can be murdering babies one minute and off to salsa/betting on horses the next. I don’t think she had an inkling until she txt dr Noname saying should she be worried, the fact she thought by baby O that she was in line (headhunted it sounded like she thought she was being) for some kind of new job makes me think she didn’t have an inkling at that point, until the should I be worried txt. As someone else said, the fact she still was brazen enough to show up every day once moved to admin 🤢the confidence/arrogance/cockiness of her sickens me also
 
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OldBlondie

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Ok so just listening to podcast for O, LL actually called Noname to come down to NNU from Another part of hospital to check on O (after she’d attacked him and her and Noname had been messaging all day), sorry but that’s even more cause to think that it was all to do with Noname her hurting these last few babies and being more reckless/careless in doing so

Also I think there’s a reason Dan was slow with updates, there’s a reason mark wasn’t there also. I know Dan isn’t usually as detailed as mark but he usually tweets far more than he has today. Maybe it is some kind of reporting restrictions or they knew it was going to be a slow day given mark is always there at the start of a new baby 🤷🏼‍♀️

Dans report from today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-65019048 not much extra info so wonder if today was a short day with few witnesses

From today 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
DE705F56-6ABD-4C62-8571-B04C76A5C2E9.jpeg



ok FAR more info on today 🚨ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOUR from LL🚨 here:https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23399865.lucy-letby-fainted-fellow-medics-not-revive-baby/
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
 
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Blockedbyadmin

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Wouldn’t have found me as a nursing manager taking the flack for a staff nurse who has consultants concerned about their behaviour. Absolutely shocking
 
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Milktray

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Yeah, fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to explain. 💔
I understand what you saying...and if the complaint wasn't so horrifically serious, I would've agreed.
But, human error is non intentional. Karen was already aware of the situation and she failed to safeguard preferring to gamble on a babies life.

At the very least, Karen should have agreed with Dr B's suggestion of LL staying off work the next day. It was a case of changing the roster around so they could find out how to 'legally' proceed.
 
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Famous last words or what. I take full responsibility. I know only Letby alone is to blame. Nobody could have thought she was capable. But safeguarding means thinking the worst is possible. They were told. This doctor must have been beside himself to call. He looks like a nice man, dedicated 😞 he tried so hard to save baby O. They were not ill, they did not decline, they’re not victims of cpap death which is such a tiny chance and after days on end on high pressure in teeny poorly babies. They should be happy children, a miracle three identical boys. She is evil.
It's actually so upsetting to hear this, he knew in his gut what she was doing and no one would believe him. He must have felt like he was losing his grip on reality... I don't know how these people were able to continue to work in their professions after being so massively let down...
 
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raspberryjuice

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“I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them”.

It comes across to me like someone acting out. We all know those kinds of people who cry out “I’m not good enough” when things don’t go their way. They claim they’re not good enough, not pretty enough, not fun enough to try and manipulate a situation and get their own way. And that’s what I think she was doing. I don’t believe she had a mental health condition that made her this way. I think she was just manipulative and spiteful. She was used to getting her own way in life and this was an environment where she couldn’t stamp her feet, pout and get what she wanted. She attacked and killed those babies because she was pissed off she didn’t get her own way. If she couldn’t look after them nobody was going to get to look after them.
 
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JCMSadie

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I came across this article from 2018 yesterday. This child was in NNU in 2013. Hits home how many parents outside of this case may be worried if Lucy was involved with their child.



The couple acknowledge that medical notes already in their possession state Felicity was suffering from pneumonia, a condition that could explain the sudden collapse of her lungs.

After she fell ill, a doctor at Chester told Felicity’s parents to prepare themselves for the ‘worst-case scenario’ but then suggested a last-ditch transfer to Arrowe Park Hospital near Birkenhead. With the ambulance on its way, Felicity was baptised as she lay in her incubator.

After being treated with a special lubricant that coats the lungs at Arrowe Park, as she had been twice at Chester, Felicity’s condition began to improve.

‘Thank God she was transferred there,’ said Mr Whitfield.
I've thought all along there must be other babies she harmed/tried to harm. There's no way she either killed on her first attempt, or had years of a career where she was "normal" before suddenly switching into a monster. She was always a monster, and definitely harmed babies before baby A.
 
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MmmB777

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Also unless BM is keeping things very close to his chest, there are quite a few babies where he’s said words like “we don’t know the cause, we don’t know why but you’re just assuming it’s Letby” I mean that’s pretty poor for her really and it heavily relies on the assumption that premature babies just die practically spontaneously constantly but the problem here is it’s for the same person each time.
The idea that this can be missed because the unit occasionally do things an hour later than they say or miss certain things is essentially laughable to me.
The babies are often in full medical care as Dr E called it, we are hearing all the details about their heart rates, blood gasses, observations, they are hooked up to machines that alarm (unless silenced 👀) and scenes of a busy unit (not busy enough to text all day and night) are the same up and down the country. I’ve heard about some things that sound less than perfect but I’m also hearing, baby had a little vomit so I referred to the consultant, baby had a little higher than we’d like temp so we did xyz, we gave antibiotics as a precaution.. there’s plenty of evidence that these people are doing a great job. They’ve saved many of the babies despite her efforts to kill them.
I think one of the very experienced nurses when grilled by BM said well yes we’ve been asking for more staff for 20 years, we still are! It doesn’t cause babies to go into cardiac arrest. We’re talking about a scenario where multiple multiple multiple other drs, nurses, consultants have to be absolutely dog shit at their jobs. Many of the junior Drs at the time are now consultants, many of the names we’ve heard have written research papers and have gone on to incredible job roles. They are all just ignoring these babies declines? But then there are umpteen mentions of the deaths and collapses being sudden and unexpected- it can’t really be disputed when it’s Letby saying it herself surely.
 
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MmmB777

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Like going on a merail here, that point about their names got me.
We had my son at about 2pm and at about 2am, he was take to NICU. At this point, we hadn't given him a name because we couldn't decide between 2 names, but the minute we both saw him the next day, we gave him a name because we feared for the worst.

Those poor parents, my heart is constantly breaking for them and the children they should have had.
To take a new baby from parents, to leave them forever without their little person, it’s the cruelest act known to man. But to do it from a position of such trust, where parents put all their faith in you at a time of such great vulnerability. To do it to these little babies that needed help and were fighting so hard for their place in the world. There is a level of cruelty that is unmatchable. To then watch them from afar. To mark yourself out in that moment as somebody to hug them, send them a card, receive their thanks, to take their little babies off to the morgue, to interrupt their last moments with their loving families. She is disgusting and I truly wish upon her a lifetime of misery. Those babies, as short as their lives were, brought more to this world than she ever will.
 
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tay65

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Depends partially on police interviews etc whether there's any benefit. She can't just take the stand and totally change her previous story or her credibility tanks.
When she returned from her holiday it was like her confidence and arrogance had soared. The comment about the student being glued to her like she was a nuisance. The comments alluding to her seniority and liking being in room 1. She talked about a nurse being upset about one of the triplet's deaths and made a sarcastic comment which sounded like the nurse was disappointed that she'd missed the excitement. I wondered if she was talking about Sophie Ellis who looked after the baby the previous shift. She commented about having broad shoulders. She also kind of boasted about the new job which was earmarked for her. I honestly think the hospital didn't know how to handle things but wanted her away from the babies and so initially sold her a new job scenario in which she thought it was some kind of promotion. As she had been on annual leave for two weeks previously there must have been a lot of discussions and meetings taking place in her absence because on her return the new job thing had been created. It must have been awful for the consultants who were highly suspicious of her and trying to take steps to do something about it only to find she'd struck again twice on her immediate return to work. Dr Brearley was clearly losing his patience when she couldn't tell him about the adrenaline the baby had been given. At some point the penny dropped with her and she wasn't happy and of course she probably craved having access to the babies. In my last job there were senior nursing posts which didn't have patient involvement and were high bands. Things like Safeguarding/Service Improvement/Head of a specialty. I wonder if they initially tried to sell her another role without her knowing the reasons. Where I worked the department had around 20 consultants and around 40 junior doctors so I'm sure they would have kept their suspicions to the consultants only and not registrars with it being very sensitive and they would have had to tread carefully because at the outset before any real investigation had taken place she might have been innocent. It was only after a large scale investigation that so much was known and they didn't know about the Facebook stuff at the outset. She had looked up the family on Facebook on the first anniversary of the death of the first triplet and she had only known these babies for a couple of days. I wonder if she was hoping to see something of the parents' sadness as it must have been a terrible day for them on the first anniversary of two babies with the third still alive and healthy. On the other hand could she have been trying to see if there was any mention of police or an investigation because she was worried. I presume she was still doing the admin work in June 2017 and I don't think she'd had the first arrest at that time (although I cannot be certain). It's all very interesting and hopefully she'll be found guilty.
 
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Tofino

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She was getting a huge kick out of seeing those parents devastated, even the doctor was shocked at how she behaved inappropriately around them. She even brought it up at the Monday meeting three days later. Yesterday's report makes shocking reading and serves to highlight her narcissistic and psychopathic nature.
And I’ve just remembered there are other parents who felt Lucy behaved inappropriately after their babies died. Like the baby bath comment. Parents who hadn’t met each other and now a doctor all reporting inappropriate behaviour. It must make them feel sick to the stomach.
 

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helcob1977

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Any one else feel like Dr nonames tone (not the right word) has changed in the messages? They feel different some how like he is also starting to get suss…… or perhaps I’m reading too much into them!
His response to her fainting was surprisingly low-key. Other than that he still sounds like the sort of wet fart that attracts bunny-boilers
 
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Aberscot

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I wonder if the executive nurse will be called to explain why she didn’t suspend her as per consultant request.
Poor parents listening to how she could have been stopped if only they listened to Drs.
And LL wasn’t upset at the debrief, i Am surprised as I would think she would at this point think she was about to be found out?
 
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Wackie Jeaver

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I think the 'why' question is probably beyond 99.999% of the population. Even things like validating your own self worth, or liking the drama (yuk) make absolutely zero sense to anyone with a normal mindset - ie, these are tiny babies who deserve everything good in terms of care, love etc. If guilty (which I am sure she is) there is something very very wrong with her, and its probably not something which can be fixed. JMO
 
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