Lucy Letby Case #2

AlanBanan said:

Also why would the police conspire with the hospital against one woman? If there was multiple people involved it would have been leaked already and not every could keep up such a lie. Do I think doctors and administrators lied and deflected to save their backs when all of this was brought to light? Yes. But do I think they’re the reason the children are dead? Absolutely not. Lucy was arrested numerous times for a reason and her back garden was dug up for a reason too. She is also the only one charged and now sitting on trial nearly 5 years later for a reason too. This isn’t a conspiracy. Everything about those babies deaths led back to Lucy and they clearly know much more that will come out soon, hence why the trial is going to be nearly two months.

Click to expand...

Nursing can a be toxic culture environment, they can gang up on a member of staff try and blame stuff on them. I've seen it happen before not murder though. I'm not sure what's happened she deserves a fair trial I will reserve my judgement until after the defence have said their bit.

Tofino said:

It’s still wrong as everyone deserves privacy but I think with the nurses/staff, they are the ones in a professional capacity and have a duty of care to their patients. What they see when snooping could potentially influence their treatment of the patient.

Click to expand...

I’m not justifying it at all. It’s not something I would choose to do. Although maybe it’s a generational thing? Social media is so easily accessible for both professionals and patients

veevee04 said:

Nursing can a be toxic culture environment, they can gang up on a member of staff try and blame stuff on them. I've seen it happen before not murder though. I'm not sure what's happened she deserves a fair trial I will reserve my judgement until after the defence have said their bit.

Click to expand...

Yes, Ive seen bullying happen or nurses turning against eachother and will throw another under the bus. However most have good judgement and if a nurse is not capable if their job they will notice most times.

AlanBanan said:

why the trial is going to be nearly two months.

Click to expand...

It’s on the list for 6 months

yellowboat said:

[

On the flip side, patients & their parents have looked me up on social media.. even added me! So now I’m names slightly different and profiles are locked down as much as I can.

Click to expand...

I looked up my surgeon coz he was gorgeous

veevee04 said:

Nursing can a be toxic culture environment, they can gang up on a member of staff try and blame stuff on them. I've seen it happen before not murder though. I'm not sure what's happened she deserves a fair trial I will reserve my judgement until after the defence have said their bit.

Click to expand...

I work in an NHS hospital (admin) and I was shocked at the standards and behaviours of some of the nurses. (And don’t get me started on doctors!!) Real bullies. Obviously not all nurses are bullies and only a very minuscule percentage are abusive to patients and end up murderers. But I think a lot of people think healthcare professionals are all pristine, intelligent and can never step a foot wrong. Sadly not the case

AlanBanan said:

Also why would the police conspire with the hospital against one woman? If there was multiple people involved it would have been leaked already and not every person involved could keep up with such a lie. Do I think doctors and administrators lied and deflected to save their backs when all of this was brought to light? Yes. But do I think they’re the reason the children are dead? Absolutely not. Lucy was arrested numerous times for a reason and her back garden was dug up for a reason too. She is also the only one charged and now sitting on trial nearly 5 years later for a reason too. This isn’t a conspiracy. Everything about those babies deaths led back to Lucy and they clearly know much more that will come out soon, hence why the trial is going to be nearly two months.

Click to expand...

Digging up the backyard is interesting does she have children herself/has she been pregnant we’re they looking for more babies

To be fair I’m incredibly nosy and will have a glance on Fb/insta/LinkedIn people I’ve met or friends of friends I hear about. I’d hate to be judged by my Facebook search

countrybumpkin92 said:

Really shocking but I’m keeping an open mind, all we’ve heard is the prosecution barrister.. no actual evidence or testimony.

Regarding the Facebook thing, without going into detail of my experience it’s really not uncommon for nurses/staff to look you up. My husband was even searched on Linkedin when he went in to hospital (you get a notification!). That said, if she was looking up the parents that’s not a crime and doesn’t indicate one way or another to her likelihood of being a murderer!

Click to expand...

They did say was more to that and they will come back to it at some point during the trial so I think that said it’s possible they have a lot more on the computer that they found . To search every child that was killed or attempted to be killed is very odd indeed . At that time I assume none of the nurses knew they had been killed or attempted to be killed so very strange she only googled the victims families and not others .

yellowboat said:

“In November 2020, Letby was asked by police about a handover sheet relating to Child B found at her home address in a search.” this throws major red flags! BA took home the allocation book. Was LL trying to hide something?

Click to expand...

My handbag is full of handover sheets and clinic lists

It's also not uncommon in a NICU setting to form a close bond with the staff, especially if you get the same staff member assigned to your baby or your area of NICU all the time. They are ultimately doing your job for the period of time your child is under their care. They are there to care for the parents sometimes just as much as the baby.
I formed some relationships with the NICU nurses who looked after my twins, one I do have on Facebook, but she's also a family friend so that is different, and was never allowed to care for my twins due to knowing us.
However, our NICU also set up a stay and play type session for ex paitents that was ran by two of the Junior Sisters, which allowed you to form an informal relationship post discharge. Many NICU nurses are also on the local charity Facebook Group and often interact with ex paitents.
So it's not uncommon, so it will be very interesting to hear more of her search history and was it just parents of the children in question, was it all the paitents under her supervision. It's not a concrete formation of guilt just yet.

I have to say I do love tattle we always have a reasoned debate and look at opposing theories. Facebook I've seen people say hang her burn her on day one. Really glad to be able to have a place to sensibly discuss.

veevee04 said:

Nursing can a be toxic culture environment, they can gang up on a member of staff try and blame stuff on them. I've seen it happen before not murder though. I'm not sure what's happened she deserves a fair trial I will reserve my judgement until after the defence have said their bit.

Click to expand...

I of course understand that, but I just don’t see so many people allowing one woman to take the fall.

It will be hard for the jury

Having been on an intense trial jury before, you can have strong suspicions and evidence that someone is guilty of a horrible crime but unless you are beyond a reasonable doubt, it is very difficult to say guilty and the defence do a good job of putting that doubt there when there is perhaps circumstantial evidence.

This case may come down to how much doubt the defence put in their minds and it is very daunting putting someone away for a very serious crime that will end their lives if you have any doubt whatsoever.

For those of you wondering how the jury works, you do get an opportunity beforehand to provide reasons as to why you can’t do longer than your 2 week allocation, but only pre booked holiday will really be taken as a reason to get out of it they don’t care about your job / childcare and the amount they pay you for missing work is garbage so having a good employer is important not sure how the self employed handle it.

I don't believe the scapegoat theory in regards to innocence. It would be easier and better for everyone involved (if that was the case) to admit failings, and proceed with a thorough investigation. The alternative of pinning it on one member of staff, take the risk of them being found innocent and your failings being brought to light, to then be found that the trust had tried to make someone a scapegoat does not make any sense to me. That would be them shooting themselves twice in the foot.

Post made by a lady who had Lucy as her nurse

AlanBanan said:

I of course understand that, but I just don’t see so many people allowing one woman to take the fall.

Click to expand...

It can turn into a mob mentality, many nurses have been bullied out of their jobs. I'm not saying she's not guilty. I have no idea but if your face doesn't fit other HCps can make your life hell. Have to see what the defence says.

Joining late but very interested in this case.

I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.

I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?

I have only skimmed the 1st thread, but did read some things such as “can a nurse administer insulin” “why wasn’t she being watched” etc. ICU Nurses are very autonomous, and work alone. Often 1nurse:1patient or 1nurse:2patients. But despite having our own patients, it is not uncommon (if your patient is stable) to help other Nurses out. Ie running a blood gas for someone or administering medication for someone else. So she’s either a super helpful Nurse (which if she was a band 7, she would be in charge most of the time and helping her staff) and her name is on everything she helped with and that’s the reason she’s all over everything, or she is a super devious, calculating Nurse.

In Nursing, all IV medication is double checked and in paediatrics ALL types of medication is double checked. So to inject something like insulin into a bag of medication/fluid that 2 Nurses have prepared together, would take sneaking off with it somewhere. We have cameras in our medication room and in ICU you often draw up medication at the patient’s bed space (as you live in that one bed space for the shift and never leave the patient alone), so I’m definitely intrigued by this one!

As for the Facebook thing… I will be frowned upon for this, but I have definitely looked up a patient on Facebook. Often the family tell you of a charity they have set up in the patients name/to help with rehab, or you see their story on the local news, and it is nice to have 1 quick look to see how they are getting on post their traumatic, life altering accident. But NEVER interact. Or constantly search and search. So this is something I’m also interested in.

So yeah, hi. Will be following along very closely.

hello from me said:

One thing I don't get and I may have missed this. If child A was killed first for example. At the post mortem if they found air or insulin that should not have been there. Then how was she (if it was her) able to go on killing others.
Wonder if the parents were told at the time that their child died of one thing. Then after a review found they died from the real reason.

Click to expand...

Air embolus is notoriously difficult to diagnose, the air is re absorbed quickly so often the only way to diagnose it is the history and circumstances. Similarly, insulin is rapidly metabolised and not easily detected post mortem

And it seems to be consultants who raised the alarm. It was a doctor who raised the alarm in BAs case if I'm not mistaken. These people are well educated and trained to notice signs of foul play.