Lucy Letby Case #19

[Blockedbyadmin]

I’ll be back when the scraping stops.

I think she’s guilty and I have from the start of the trial.Some think she’s innocent fine. Some don’t know fine.

 

[riddleme89]

This case is so sad born at 24 weeks got to 34 weeks and moved from arrow park to Chester assuming because child G was getting better . from Aug 14 to sep 6th baby G was in Chester doing ok . Then Lucy who was on days picked up night shifts for the time baby G collapses I assume


utterly heartbreaking those poor parents with how well baby G was doing

 

[gigilouxx]

Been a silent watcher on these threads until now. I absolutely hate this woman with every fibre of my being. Those poor innocent little babies.
That rat is the definition of evil, not only for her acts but to have the audacity to put these poor parents through 6 months of listening to the absolute hell she unleashed on helpless newborn babies, the most pure beings on earth. She’s probably getting something out of it, hearing what she’s done.
I hope she never has a moments peace in her life again.
So much love for the parents and jurors involved in this case. They are so brave.

 

[OldBlondie]

With the overfeeding, I am guessing the baby would not have been bottle fed so would it been a syringe or tube does anyone know? How quickly would it take for someone to deliberately do this?
just thinking with the other attempts if she’s guilty would be quick and not so obvious, eg injecting the air or TNT bags.
with this attempt she has to get extra milk from somewhere to do, more risk at being caught?

I can’t answer your question as such, as I don’t know for sure, but there was a poster yesterday that suggested LL used the breast milk of the baby she was designated that evening, so that no one would notice the extra milk missing, and that’s why she sent a txt about breast milk to her colleague early on in her shift. I find that theory very credible as we’ve seen lots of examples of LL being very cunning and probably meticulously planning her attacks. So I would imagine she would have been quick at administering a syringe of milk, you’d only need a small amount and the mum spoke yesterday about how you have to administer it very slowly when feeding, so I imagine LL just gave it very quickly, hence how violent the vomiting was and how quickly G became unwell. Someone else can confirm/correct this that would know for sure though


ETA I see the posters above have also answered this already with very similar thought process

 

[stardust1]

This same argument every week is coming from BOTH sides. Just scroll past each others posts

 

[Deeznutslol]

I won’t post the screen shots as some might find it upsetting, and I can’t work out how to do a spoiler, but for anyone wanting to know about why it took so long for them to realise how severe the brain damage was and what G’s life expectancy is as a result, have a look at Mersey hacks Twitter, heartbreaking

blondie if you want to do a spoiler you just have to click the 3 dots, select spoiler, put a title and then you just have to type your post between the square brackets that are like this ][ and then it should work!

 

[HappyGoss]

I've struggled today too. It's harrowing.

My son was in SCBU but he was lucky, we couldn't fault the wonderful team who cared for him. It was 12 years ago but I'll always remember one particular Dr who did any tests or what he needed to do and before he left he'd always tap my lad on the head. Such a kind and caring gesture.

Every baby deserves this.

 

[riddleme89]

I believe now she is thoasand percent guilty
baby doing really well no issues from other nurses suddenly letby takes over and baby collapses !!!!

she’s a monster

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Another little thing that's popped in my head. Ben asked if the baby could be screaming cause he was hungry. When I had my youngest the midwives stressed to me that I had to feed him every 3 hrs and that cause he was so small sometimes babies that little forget they need to be fed. Although very small he was discharged within 24 hrs of birth so if my approaching 5lb baby was liable to forget to be fed why would a premature smaller baby be screaming out of hunger?

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

Her dad looks like he’s slowly withering away. Like the weight of the world is on his shoulders and he’s in his 70’s. Cannot imagine what her parents are going through. Wonder if any of their friends have distanced themselves. I can’t imagine trying to love and support a child of mine when deep down I think they could have done what they’re being accused of etc. although maybe they genuinely think she’s completely innocent. Would have hard for them to have seen that note and hear what her colleagues are saying etc

 

[housebythesea]

It's a difficult time of year to be running a massive court case and hoping that everyone shows up - there is still loads of Covid about as well as seasonal flu, and I don't suppose it helps if they attend when they're poorly and give it to everyone else too.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I’m confused. So there was another nurse (not lucy) who gave the baby double feeds and made him vomit??

The other nurse aspirated Baby G’s stomach, minimal aspirate obtained, then gave her a 45ml ng. When the baby vomited 45mls of milk was aspirated but there was a large vomit so the baby must have received more than 45mls. It’s being suggested that LL introduced more milk and air after the designated nurse gave the 2am feed. Further episodes occurred when she was transferred to LL’s care.
I honestly can’t see how a baby who had survived for 100 days, now weighed over 4lbs and was being given alternating bottle feeds could suddenly deteriorate in this way. The coordination, self regulation of breathing and energy need to bottle feed is very significant.
After these ‘incidents’ she returned to AP, improved, then was transferred back to CoC and deteriorated in such a drastic way when LL was again ‘caring’ for her.

Let’s hope Ben doesn’t go down the road of “very premature baby so brain damage expected etc”

She was 100 days old at the point of the attacks so had reached 34 weeks and weighed over 4lbs.
She had been at CoC for a few weeks without incident.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I think the 100 day celebration is significant.. To me it shows a deliberate act of evilness to try and destroy her special day.
Was she not happy that the attention was on someone else? That’s how it comes across to me.

This is the first time through out all of this that I genuinely feel ill while reading and I can’t remove my self emotionally. Doing this on the day baby G made it to 100 days. I cant comprehend this level of evil

 

[raspberryjuice]

@MmmB777 I can see you lurking (as in liking posts, I’m not stalking you ) but you’ve been very quiet this week. I hope you’re ok. You’ve been a great contributor to these threads and I’ve noticed your absence this week x

 

[OldBlondie]

So going by todays tweets it looks like BM is going down the route of accepting the tpn was tampered with, but blaming other staff.

So I’m wondering what the NG, or leaning to NG camp, believe has happened in the case of F. Im very much G, but have been trying to look at other angles/possibilities today, just to see if I can come up with anything that’s less than reasonable doubt.

I think the fact that LL is there for every single incident is already too big a coincidence. But, if, for arguments sake she’s being stitched up, how much more of an impossible coincidence would it be that after the police start there investigation into LL, they find that not only has she been there for each incident, but with some what luck, they then have that all this other incriminating circumstantial evidence that turns up such as the Fb searches, photo on her phone and the medical notes and the note at her house (plus all the other little bits).

But let’s just then say that happens to just be the way it’s luckily worked out for the police, they have a suspect and then find evidence from that period that also just happens to fit retrospectively. And you put babies A-E down to hospital failings, which although I do not believe for one second, I can see why others can, especially given we know there were many issues on that unit, and we’ve seen examples of bad practice. But, and this is what I can’t get my head round, what possible innocent explanation can there be for F? I genuinely am wondering what the people that can believe A-E are possibly as a result of failings on the unit, rather than LL, think could have happened with F?

My thinking when trying to look at it from an innocent angle, actually strengthens my belief that it’s LL. Because I just can’t believe that it could possibly have been two massive coincidences that not only was LL there for all 22 incidents, but also had more retrospective evidence tying her to the murder/harm of the babies.

I also can’t believe that we’ve heard from multiple staff (some of whom have gone on to have very successful careers), and they are all in on this coverup/blame scenario. And if we aren’t to believe the prosecution experts then why should we believe the defence’s? I guess it all comes down to which version you believe, and whether that’s enough for you to believe she’s guilty beyond reasonable doubt. And whether the other explanations/eliminations are over the threshold of that reasonable doubt ie whether the other explanation/eliminations are credible enough to explain what’s happened or not. I’ve tried looking at it from other points of view today while we aren’t getting much reporting but just can’t see any other explanation for all these collapses/deaths

I know we are yet to hear from defence, but given what we’ve heard from them so far I find them a bit weak and their other explanations not credible. I just can’t see how they could sway me from G, but nether the less I am looking forward to hearing what they have to say and what they come up with other than muddying the waters and discrediting. As I say if you discredit the prosecution experts, then why wouldn’t you discredit the defence’s experts in the same way

I agree, especially when you think how often it is used by killers in a health care setting. With these babies we’re literally talking mls is enough to kill or seriously harm. And worse, when it does kill its undetectable. It’s crazy it’s so easily accessible.

See I kind of disagree, as we’ve seen lots of things can be lethal to babies for example a syringe of air, medical equipment, babies own feeds, and lots of other medicines that would be lethal to babies in the wrong doses.

You can’t control all medicines or machines or pretty much all things that would/could be lethal to babies, otherwise a unit couldn’t function. As it’s supposed to be the doctors that deal with the insulin, they and nurses know how lethal it would be, and would never just give a baby insulin if they weren’t supposed to.

The difference is no normal doctor or nurse would ever use it in a way to kill/harm a baby, just as they would never use air in the tube, or babies milk to over feed, or switch the monitoring equipment off, or force a tube down a babies throat. I get what you mean about it’s crazy that insulin is tiny, and isn’t seen so pretty much undetectable etc so it’s scary to think about. But at the same time pretty much everything in that unit can sadly be used as a weapon when in the wrong hands…. the hands of an evil psychopath

 

[stardust1]

How many can admit they had a snoop at the colleagues mentioned in the case? I know I have, I can understand why people don’t want their name out there. I bet there is some who have messaged them too

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

If they give a reason why nothing was done and it was put down to an anomaly or whatever I’m happy to accept that. All I’m saying is the fact nothing was done at the time given they had the same information available could mean there’s another explanation we’ve not heard


Why would they send test results to a medical professional who couldn’t interpret them correctly? You’ve said it’s a rare test. Surely a specialist would have reviewed the results

The specialist could interpret them. And advised that they send the bloods for further analysis, the hospital didn’t do this. That specialist doesn’t work for the hospital though. What the doctors who requested the bloods did with the results after is down to them, not the facility that actually tested the blood. I said this back along there should be some sort of multi agency safe guarding framework in place when a testing facility finds something suspicious, and they should have a duty to see what went on after and do a follow up.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

It most definitely does though, the fact the did nothing gives room for another possible reason imo

I’ve said what I think happened, I think they did ignore the results. Partly to avoid a scandal or an investigation and partly because baby F got better and went home. They were also dealing with a unusually high number of deaths, I bet they were all worried about how that looked on the unit. Even if the staff conceded they were of natural causes they would have still been worried.

Then they have a ‘accidental’ insulin poisoning occur, they probably thought fuck! But Baby F survived and they moved on. You have to remember only the night before baby E died. I don’t really know what goes on after a death on a ward but I can imagine it isn’t plain sailing lots of paper work some sort of investigation etc etc, the baby who survived insulin probably wasn’t that high on their list of priorities at the time, because of everything else going on. Of course it shouldn’t have happened, they should have looked into it more, but an underfunded, Understaffed, over stretched ward, really do have a lot to deal with. We already know best practice hasn’t always been followed, so why is this so surprising. There really can be a underachieving unit who cut corners and a murderer.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

I see a lot of “she loved the drama and being the hero” form ample people on here but I don’t think it’s consistent with SK, they know not to stand out, whether it’s for a good reason or not and drama doesn’t satisfy them like killing does as a general rule. This is why you normally see escalation, they need to do worse things in order to satisfy there urges. Interestingly this case is in reverse when you look at the charges. And serial killers don’t get less efficient it’s just not what happens. It’s like anything you play enough poker you’re going to get better at it,

Your comment about SKs getting better at it completely contradicts the fact that they often get caught… usually - particularly with lust killers because they can’t control themselves As they desire the release the kill gives them.
some often want to be caught as they feel they literally can’t control themselves (see the Lipstick killer as a good example). There’s of plenty of examples of killers who enjoyed the offending and also examples of killers who got gratification from the reaction of those around them -like media reports, the revulsion of the public etc

I don't quite know how to articulate this but I do struggle with one thing which I know seems weird considering the heinous crimes. I've been thinking it while reading.

Why does everyone rule out harm by other medical professionals?

I have difficulty agreeing guilt with the early babies, but these latter ones, it's hard to see it as anything but purposeful. So why aren't we questioning the pharmacist, the doctors etc. Why is it Lucy?

I've seen the time lines etc.. But if the picture doesn't slot together because there's a question over the first few babies (in my head..) I wonder why there aren't more suspects.. I don't know.. It's just weird to trust the word of say, a pharmacist, but not the nurse who says she was sitting with her. Or to trust Dr whoever but not trust Lucy. I know the timings are there for her, but that's only if the whole picture slots together.

I think she probably did these current babies harm, but I'm so interested to see what the defense say because I definitely have a niggle around whether I could find her guilty should I be on the jury

I think my jury service has influenced the way I think too. Every single jury member wobbled and questioned, including me.

Brain officially trashed.

Because we’re no longer in an investigation. How do you know that every other medical professional was considered and ruled out at the time. This investigation was ongoing for a very long time and I’m sure all possibilities have been narrowed down hence why the CPS allowed charges to be brought against LL. we are now in the court arena. The defence as I understand it can point the finger to other potential perpetrators if it’s clear harm was done, but the police and CPS do not believe that anyone else is culpable follow their investigation

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

He’s always live reporting when I’ve finished a night shift and need to go to bed. A day off and he’s nowhere to be seen. This week I’ve got the whole week off and he’s been off 2 days already. I’m off to the hairdressers later and had planned to sit and follow rather than engaging in boring chit chat about Xmas shopping but he’s let me down. Bet he’s live reporting tomorrow when I’m busy all day tho!

Why can’t he just do mon-Fri, 9-5, they’re cushty hours

My intrusive thoughts usually involve car crashes. Things like wanting to grab the steering wheel to swerve the car, flicking the handbrake switch on the motorway, not braking coming up to traffic etc my bf actually let me try the handbrake thing once because I wouldn’t stop asking about it and he was insistent it wouldn’t do anything. But we were only doing about 10mph through a quiet village so it didn’t quite satisfy those intrusive thoughts - we just juddered to a halt. I’d never act on them in normal circumstances though because I’m not a psycho.

Yes I have thoughts about swerving across the road into oncoming traffic, turning the engine off mid driving etc
I’d never ever act on these things, but it is scary that your mind can think this way sometimes.