That’s what I mean is strange - that it is so accepting that the other nurses records must be incorrect based on a ‘positive’ outcome, but any time LL’s records are incorrect, it’s because of a sinister reason. It just feels a bit messy.
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Again….she is becoming more impulsive. Her motive is to cause events that boost her self-worth, for others to see her as god like and capable. She doesn’t give a flying feck about these babies, it is about her and her needs. She also has tried a trusted method…injecting air. She wants to make the cause of the collapses different to evade detection and will be testing out different ways of inflicting harm. Perhaps not as much injected air as before or at a pace that is slower. I certainly wouldn’t expect someone with that impulsivity to use the same boring methods.
If you goto the wiki and thoroughly go through all the evidence you will start to see it from a different light.
Perhaps think about this….take away the overfeeding, air embolism and physical harm and look at baby F. Objective evidence right there
I don't quite know how to articulate this but I do struggle with one thing which I know seems weird considering the heinous crimes. I've been thinking it while reading.
Why does everyone rule out harm by other medical professionals?
I have difficulty agreeing guilt with the early babies, but these latter ones, it's hard to see it as anything but purposeful. So why aren't we questioning the pharmacist, the doctors etc. Why is it Lucy?
I've seen the time lines etc.. But if the picture doesn't slot together because there's a question over the first few babies (in my head..) I wonder why there aren't more suspects.. I don't know.. It's just weird to trust the word of say, a pharmacist, but not the nurse who says she was sitting with her. Or to trust Dr whoever but not trust Lucy. I know the timings are there for her, but that's only if the whole picture slots together.
I think she probably did these current babies harm, but I'm so interested to see what the defense say because I definitely have a niggle around whether I could find her guilty should I be on the jury
I think my jury service has influenced the way I think too. Every single jury member wobbled and questioned, including me.
Brain officially trashed.
Why does everyone rule out harm by other medical professionals?
I have difficulty agreeing guilt with the early babies, but these latter ones, it's hard to see it as anything but purposeful. So why aren't we questioning the pharmacist, the doctors etc. Why is it Lucy?
I've seen the time lines etc.. But if the picture doesn't slot together because there's a question over the first few babies (in my head..) I wonder why there aren't more suspects.. I don't know.. It's just weird to trust the word of say, a pharmacist, but not the nurse who says she was sitting with her. Or to trust Dr whoever but not trust Lucy. I know the timings are there for her, but that's only if the whole picture slots together.
I think she probably did these current babies harm, but I'm so interested to see what the defense say because I definitely have a niggle around whether I could find her guilty should I be on the jury
I think my jury service has influenced the way I think too. Every single jury member wobbled and questioned, including me.
Brain officially trashed.
There is no doubt thousands of texts between the staff that don't form part of the prosecutions case so we don't hear about them. These are just a selected few to bolster the prosecutions case.
Also the baby didn't become ill because her body failed her which could happen with an extremely premature baby. She became poorly because someone overfed her on two occasions which caused the emergencies and this has been proven with the amount of vomit and amount of milk in her system. Therefore BM shouldn't be able to go credibly down the line of extreme prematurity being responsible. She was overfed and whilst nobody saw anyone do this the amount of coincidences and other circumstantial evidence points to only one person.
Apparently because she was the only one there when these babies died. However, we know other babies were excluded from the prosecution so until we know why (was it impossible that she could be responsible for those deaths) I'm staying firmly on the fence. If there are other, similar incidences that LL could not be responsible for, then that will form part of her defence.
it’s not as simple as that though. You have to look at each one and think is that reasonable or not.
you could also say the opposite - those that think Lucy not remembering something accurately is innocent becuase of the incidents being a few years gone. But this nurse’s memory must be accurate and correct because … it provides Lucy with an alibi ?
It’s not a one rule fits all. It’s about context and reasonableness. For example Lucy’s notes for baby E were not reasonable because they weren’t just a slight difference of timing. She denies what the mum said ever took place at all.
Helping with the banner is a similar pattern to when she bathed the deceased baby in front of the parents and took photos etc and when she kept going into the family room when the other bereaved parents were there when she shouldn't have done and had to be told not to go in. She probably gets a kick out of all this grief.One of the round ups today said the dad was quoted as saying “she was a little fighter”. I knew G was going to be a difficult one, but when it’s set out like this it’s really incomprehensible that LL could inflict this level of cruelty on both that tiny wee fighter, but also the parents. She’s sick, joining in making the banner that day then a few hours later this.
I’ve really struggled all day with this, so I honestly can’t imagine how hard it is for you and others that have been In similar situations (ofc minus the evil LL), it must be so very difficult for you all, there was a poster earlier that had said about their ivf and I honestly can’t imagine how you are all feeling tonight too. Hope you’ll be able to dip in and out as when you all feel up to it
I think letby has been ruled out as the reason for collapses in other cases not in the trial because these collapses ARE medically explainable. If you look at child H (the weakest link imo), then you will see that professional’s did not automatically assume letby was responsible for many of baby H’s collapses. They ruled her out on several occasions because they could explain them. I’ll need to go back and look but I’m pretty sure there were only two a occasion’s where baby H collapsed that they couldn’t explain other than Letby. If you consider this then it somewhat throws out the theory that they have assumed guilt because she was merely there. They haven’t, as if they did I’m sure they would have added many more charges to the indictment.
I think they point to Lucy because it always happens as soon as the nurse goes for the break. They get the baby cared for and settled and then she ends up in the room and within minutes the baby has collapsed. She administers care and the baby collapses, again within minutes. A monitor is switched off and again it’s Lucy that finds them. She shouldn’t have been in the room on most occasions and then she heavily involves herself in the aftermath.
The reoccurring theme is always Lucy.
The reoccurring theme is always Lucy.
I don’t think it’s as simple as the prosecution saying the other nurse must be wrong just because it suits their narrative. They have evidence that placed Lucy elsewhere, so the other nurse MUST have been wrong. Hopefully we’ll hear much more detail on this.
They will have door swipe records too.
Yes we have no idea what the record is that contradicts the other nurse yet. No doubt there will be a lot of debate over it!
"The blood gases had raised metabolic acidosis."
This was in the reports yesterday
A symptom of this is vomiting, so I expect at some point we might hear this referred to, seeing as the blood tests were already showing an explanation for the vomiting which didn't depend on overfeeding or any outside interference
This was in the reports yesterday
A symptom of this is vomiting, so I expect at some point we might hear this referred to, seeing as the blood tests were already showing an explanation for the vomiting which didn't depend on overfeeding or any outside interference
The blood gases were taken after the vomiting, and after the baby’s O2 sats had dropped to 17%. 17%, it’s a wonder she’s still alive. A blood oxygen level this low is going to cause acidosis, and obviously worse, like severe brain damage.
I fully agree I think it’s a strong pattern that we are going to keep seeing, especially what’s coming up with baby I, she has a real obsession with I’s parents it seems
Very well put
I think as well how it’s how violently she vomited, the fact it reached as far as the chair, this was not just a little normal vomit
I think they said something about the timings being wrong. Perhaps they were able to identify that the nurse or LL were recorded as being elsewhere at the designated time.
So just been reading The Independent, which I find usually has few more extra details.
Anyway found 2 thing’s interesting, first of all she did visit the unit the following evening when she was OFF shift, I thought this as reporting was suggesting it, but this confirms
. And second she text a colleague enquiring whether G was being transferred or not the next day
Visiting while off duty:
Asking the colleague about transfer:
And a little bit more of info from convo when Dr Letby was busy giving explanations and diagnosing G
:
Anyway found 2 thing’s interesting, first of all she did visit the unit the following evening when she was OFF shift, I thought this as reporting was suggesting it, but this confirms
. And second she text a colleague enquiring whether G was being transferred or not the next dayVisiting while off duty:
Asking the colleague about transfer:
And a little bit more of info from convo when Dr Letby was busy giving explanations and diagnosing G
:
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