Notice
Thread ordered by most liked posts - View normal thread.

IGiveUp22

VIP Member
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Doesn’t seem the brightest move to attack a child with insulin knowing that the blood sugar levels would show a problem, maybe it wouldn’t be initially suspicious, but it’s definitely very risky especially when insulin has no business being in the child’s system
I just honestly think she didn’t think she’d get caught. Let’s say she was guilty for the others (I think she was) she’s basically got away with murder multiple times…she likely thought she was untouchable & no one would notice.

I was a bit worried listening to the defence cross examine the expert I must admit. However, when it came to the pharmacy person I just think that evidence is extremely damning - never would insulin be put in that bag. There is no other explanation imo for it getting in there other than someone putting it in & that someone is the one on the stand…
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 18

candyland_

VIP Member
In a way I hope the surviving children are protected to a certain degree from knowing what happened to them.
In the Beverly Allit documentary I watched there was a victim in her 20s/30s who was absolutely terrified she would come back for her and she suffered terribly from knowing what happened to her.
 
  • Sad
  • Like
Reactions: 18

candyland_

VIP Member
I too am very puzzled by this and I have been back and forth over the reports to no avail. The indication is that the TPN bag was changed at 10am when the line tissued. As you say, this would have meant a new giving set and should have also meant a new TPN bag, and the reports seem to indicate that this is what happened and a stock bag was used. This would be long after LL's shift had ended, I assume? In which case, how did a random stock bag also contain insulin? I am not buying the line contamination for a minute, especially as they also state that the quantity of insulin required to produce those readings would have been around 0.58ml/hr. That could not be accounted for by a trace contamination. This second bag issue is very important in my opinion, as far from pointing to her guilt, the apparent contamination of another bag resulting in the same low glucose readings at a time when she wasn't there, could establish her innocence.


I think your meaning was quite clear. As I think I said before, never do jury service. You have only heard a fraction of the evidence, all from the Prosecution and none from the Defence.
If this case is so clear cut why were no cases flagged as suspicious at the time and why did it take so long to bring charges against her?
The fact that someone has been charged with a crime does not mean they have been found guilty; everyone is entitled to a presumption of innocence. I may believe her to be guilty after I have heard all the evidence - but not on the basis that there is "no smoke without fire"
They’ve said this is a massive and painstaking case and they had to take their time to get it right. It would have taken them months to look through years of medical records just to start building a picture. One wrong move too soon and their case would be ruined. Unfortunately for Lucy her Facebook searches, her post it note, having handover sheets and lists of babies medication in her house only added to the mammoth task of sifting through evidence.

It’s also bit hard to hold back forming an opinion when the defence are giving the bare minimum isn’t it? He didn’t even question some witnesses this week so he’s not doing a great job at stopping the prosecution from sinking their teeth in.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 18

Faith61

VIP Member
Just listened to this week's daily mail podcast.
The discussion at the end around the reporting really made me think!, I don't know why,cos we are saying it on here all the time that we are only hearing snippets really of what's being said!!
For me,hearing it from the journalist themselves though, just put it into context. So much will come out at the end of all this!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

abelleza

VIP Member
No, it’s just yet another dig at anyone trying to understand the logistics of the bags/timings etc.

Perhaps we shouldn’t have any discussion? 🤷🏽‍♀️
I don’t agree with your POV at all avabella but I agree, the nasty sniping and sarcasm on this thread is just off putting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

candyland_

VIP Member
I have been reading and I’m in no doubt that baby F received insulin ‘illegally’.

Where I’m struggling, in regards to LL, is where is the concrete proof that she was the one to administer it through the TPN bag and not anybody else?

Could someone kindly explain that to me.
I can understand why people need further proof but for me the proof is in all the little things that build up the bigger picture. She hung the bag, she took a keen interest in his care and then said she wasn’t involved, she appears to have falsified his record, her overly obsessive behaviour in his parents etc.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 18

Rippedjeanmaybe

VIP Member
I’m not even attempting to understand it. I don’t think we get the full picture as obviously loads more is said in court. The baby was intentionally poisoned with insulin and everything points to LL. Thats enough for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

Blockedbyadmin

VIP Member
Let’s all hope for some detailed reporting this week (that’s allowed) and some clarity to the questions people have. I think the jury will have more info than we can access. Also it still begs the question of if it’s not her then who is it? The police investigation took a long time and I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t contact those who investigated BA all those years ago to get an opinion (just a thought that occurred to me last night as I watched the BA tapes again) so there’s no one else on trail for these incidents and murders and foul play so again it begs the question if it isn’t her as some think she’s innocent then who?
Let’s hope we hear what happened on the day shifts and why she went onto admin
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 18

Stiltoncheese

Chatty Member
Is baby F the baby the prosecution claim she falsified documents for or was there a different one later on? I remember them making specific reference to evidence which show documents were falsified in the opening statement, but in my mind, it was one of the later babies, and not this early on.

So calculated. I've been on the fence until now, but even if defence try and state this was coincidnecee, or a genuine recording and just an anomaly, it is always odd that coincidences only happen to LL. It's all starting to stack up to be more than just coincidences my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

Rippedjeanmaybe

VIP Member
I think the fact that the “normal” reading has her signature on it is highly shocking. Would there be any proof that his blood sugar was actually normal at that time?
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 18

Tifastrife

VIP Member
Group I'm on are adamant its all down to bad hospital practices and negligence across the trust, not LL. After today, I'm struggling to see how anyone can think this baby at least, was not intentional?
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 18

Blockedbyadmin

VIP Member
I need absolute clarification on it as a nurse who regularly sets up TPN as it makes no sense. A new TPN would go through a new set. So NO contamination would occur. A new long line, is sterile and has all brand new attachments. No contamination possible. I think that some part of the original was reused, when it shouldn’t have been and his evidence doesn’t disprove that at all. Poor practice and then the nurse who did set up the second bag has lied. The odds of a second bag being chosen at random are worth getting clarity on don’t you agree.
A afterthought when I posted last night was that TPN is removed from the fridge 4hours prior to use as it can’t be given cold, so maybe one was preselected and out of the fridge and that allowed a second one to be contaminated.
I don’t agree this is nit picking at all. Some examples of contamination with prices of equipment just don’t add up to me, someone who physically sets up TPN regularly.
I’d forgotten about the 4 hour rule so you’re right she could have put insulin in the next bag once she got it out the fridge 😵
 
  • Like
Reactions: 17

MmmB777

VIP Member
Yes the insulin is the strongest evidence of deliberate harm so far. I know it's pointless going over old ground but if that earlier PM had been done which was so justified there would have been further evidence one way or the other.
Agreed. There are further babies in the case with physical trauma though (that also combines with the kind of witness statement evidence we’ve heard so far also, blood, screaming, trauma to vocal chords showing something has been shoved down) and also there is the evidence of huge amounts of air in multiple babies, volumes of air not seen before by experts. So when people say it’s all circumstantial, I think there is a fair bit of physical evidence for this type of crime, with unusual toxicology sealing the deal for typical HCSK type stuff. Of course Ben may have found someone to contradict some, a couple, maybe he’ll surprise me for all of them but I don’t think he’ll have any expert on the insulin at all. How you explain it all away at once and don’t see the pattern and correlation, I struggle to understand but everyone is entitled to their opinion on that.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

DianaBanana

VIP Member
I think she’s guilty, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking questions. And I don’t think it’s helpful to insult people that disagree. I don’t think anybody, in the history of time, has ever changed their mind on something because somebody told them they were stupid/part of a cult/brainwashed etc.

We all want justice for these babies and their families, whatever that might look like.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

Blockedbyadmin

VIP Member
I’ve said before as has docmum that there’s gaps missing because the reporting is all we see and get but the jury will have more details. Plus next week might clarify a few things because of the jury aren’t sure then they can go with questions on monday but let’s hope on Monday we get some answers to questions we can’t understand
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17