Lucy Letby Case #18

[OldBlondie]

I have no words, today is horrific reading. No doubt she’s one evil calculating absolute monster. No wonder she was texting colleagues constantly, definitely waiting to hear about the deterioration, and the thought of her at salsa excitedly waiting on updates makes me sick. So glad that baby beat the odds and survived her, just a shame his twin wasn’t so fortunate. There never was a doubt in my mind, this morning just cements the evil deviousness of her though. Sick

Is baby F the baby the prosecution claim she falsified documents for or was there a different one later on? I remember them making specific reference to evidence which show documents were falsified in the opening statement, but in my mind, it was one of the later babies, and not this early on.

So calculated. I've been on the fence until now, but even if defence try and state this was coincidnecee, or a genuine recording and just an anomaly, it is always odd that coincidences only happen to LL. It's all starting to stack up to be more than just coincidences my opinion.

There’s quite a lot more falsifying of records coming up, it’s a major theme for the prosecution, they’re going to show a big pattern of her doing it. So if people give her the benefit of the doubt on falsifying E’s records, I think today might be enough to show it’s something she did regularly

She really has started to become deceptive but is it any surprise when others had been commenting on the number of collapses on her shifts. Very calculated.

There’s a real shift in her behaviour I feel from here on in, I think by G she really steps up the deviousness and the cruelty. Gets so much worse to hear from here on in (not that it’s not already been horrific though)

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I wonder what it's like for the parents of the twins/triplets where only one baby has lived on birthdays/Christmas etc? Does having the other baby make it better or harder?

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

I’d like to think guys that the jury have access to more than we do. All we can go on is the live reporting that isn’t always detailed. Unless we’re in the court then we need to trust that the jury are getting the full
Picture. They get to ask questions so it might be next week they ask for clarification but if not then they clearly understand something we don’t know

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

Been following the trial and threads but lurking and never commenting. As the name suggests, im absolutely on the fence. Agreed, lots of information we read looks dodgy, but playing devils advocate, here are sone thoughts. (Random thoughts as im late to the commenting party may i add).

I think the NICU sounded particularly unsafe, re:staffing and decision making (taking a baby weighing 800g which would have certainly been safer in a level 3 unit), not checking critically low blood sugars for hours.

The maternity services.. The lady who had a terrible birth, 60 hours after waters went and no antibiotics, poor care!

The "watching for babys to self correct when desatting) this is common in any aspect of nursing, not too concerning for me, its common practice, you might adjust settings and appear to be watching, knowing with experience levels will go up.

The taking a baby off cpap who had obviously deteriorating gases, strange decision.

The air in vessels, 2 babies (i think) had new long lines put in (1 had it removed during resus) can we be sure these lines were primed?
Air via NG tubes. Other nurses handled these tubes, new nurses who may have been less experienced, is it beyond reasonable doubt that they couldnt have caused it?
Insulin... could this have been a complete incompetent medication error? Short staffed, over run, tired, no breaks, you arent focusing the same. Having reviewed many incidents as part of my work, they are very common! I.e patients given completely wrong medication for reasons unknown.
Theres so much dodgey ground for me, at this point if i was a juror, i could not say guilty beyond reasonable doubt... not saying shes innocent, just interested to hear the defence. Hey what if the doctors not primed the long lines, causing embulous, the nurses have been pushing air accidently down ng tubes, not knowing the harm it could cause, then theres been 2 huge meds errors (ive known of similar ) she could be a scapegoat... could be a calculated killer, theres no winners here.

The one I’d disagree with here is the insulin. There would have been several errors that would lead to the insulin poisonings.

1. No babies were prescribed insulin at that time so why would someone give it to baby F?

2. Insulin is never given in the TPN bag, so why would it have been in the TPN bag?

3. The dose was massively bigger than it should have been, why would someone accidentally give such a large dose?

Even Letby admitted that this couldn’t have been a mistake, although she couldn’t explain how it happened.

I get your thinking, but so many units have been short staffed, particularly over covid and no other unit has seemed to have multiple suspicious deaths. The air embolus thing is so rare I just don’t see how these could have caused by drs not priming the lines. I think we’ve heard too much evidence beyond it.

Of course though that’s your opinion and I’m not trying to sway you the other way. I’m just clarifying a few things.

 

[MmmB777]

Absolutely no doubt it was in the TPN and it absolutely shouldn’t have been. The lie on the record just shows what she was up to. It was her. And she goes on to do it again. There is literally no doubt in my mind and there is no doubt that then the rest is all somehow coincidence. She was playing a game. I don’t even think she cared about being caught or could override her compulsion. Truly the worst crime our country has ever seen. Snuffing out babies with their whole lives ahead of them for her own pointless gains.

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

I’ll repeat after reading all the insulin drama and drama about listening to the defence… she’s clearly just a very unlucky nurse. If I was on the jury and thought to give her the benefit of the doubt today should have really shattered that. Because insulin was given to that baby, so as someone’s said it isn’t if but who. So it’s been deduced that this person in the eyes of detectives and police is LL hence she’s on trial not someone else. It’s only going to get worse for her from here. She’s evil to make these families sit through this harrowing ordeal. I wish she’d just confess and end this nightmare. Her life is over esp seen as she’s said she’ll never marry or have kids, I agree and she’ll never nurse again. The Nmc won’t give her her pin back.

 

[MmmB777]

Don’t know if it’s posted on here but she’s (LL) is on an interim suspension order. It’s concurrent but annoyingly I can’t see when it started as that would give us an idea of when she was found out theoretically. I maintain though they won’t let her back on the register if she’s found
Not guilty due to her bringing the profession into such disrepute and that’s a huge thing to them. Also so is honesty. And it’s clear she’s lied etc
So it’s all over for her moving forwards. If she’s found not guilty she’ll need a new life and new name as no one will
Leave her alone. Like someone said I think she may take her own life. Unless she’s really unhinged that she thrives off drama ‍

Don’t worry. She’s the master of disguise hun xoxo

 

[Moronic]

I was asking due to potentially missing something as I’m dipping in and out- that’s why I asked.
This is a forum and I thought it was ok to do that as part of a healthy discussion

 

[tay65]

Let’s all hope for some detailed reporting this week (that’s allowed) and some clarity to the questions people have. I think the jury will have more info than we can access. Also it still begs the question of if it’s not her then who is it? The police investigation took a long time and I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t contact those who investigated BA all those years ago to get an opinion (just a thought that occurred to me last night as I watched the BA tapes again) so there’s no one else on trail for these incidents and murders and foul play so again it begs the question if it isn’t her as some think she’s innocent then who?
Let’s hope we hear what happened on the day shifts and why she went onto admin

I cannot see how it cannot be her as she was present for all 22 or 24 incidents and no-one else there for more than 7 and some will have been less than 7, as well as all the other things that implicate her. She probably didn't expect her house and phone to be searched.

 

[OldBlondie]

Wow

Also was just thinking, yes some real problems on the unit no disputing that. But sometimes these doctors/consultants are looking slightly incompetent as the babies are being treated by the meds/plans suggested by them. They think it’s down to one particular thing (such as infection) so treat accordingly. The baby doesn’t respond so the doctors don’t know what’s going on, try another few treatments, baby still gets worse/doesn’t respond. The reason they’re not responding/getting worse isn’t because the doctors don’t know what they’re doing, or failing to do the right thing; it’s because they’re literally fighting an unknown evil force. BM is able to play on this making many of the medics look as if they don’t know what they’re doing. How could they possibly ever have known (at this point) that all these babies are under attack by one of their own, they’d never comprehend that. Their skills definitely saved many of these babies from the evil unknown harm of LL, and if it wasn’t for their skills there could have been far more deaths

This was all one big sick twisted game to her, and I really do feel for the colleagues too, looking back now and realising what was actually going on this whole time must be awful for them, I’m sure many are traumatised, and again it’s the ultimate betrayal of their trust too.

Now they finally know what they were actually up against, they are probably able to make sense of why their treatments were not helping, and it all makes sense retrospectively for them. They can come to the right conclusion on the cause of the collapses and things that were so odd at the time, that they didn’t understand that all makes sense now, why they are now being able to make sense of the readings all being totally abnormal, it’s like it all clicks together now for them.

Just so unbelievable that LL got away with it for as long as she did, she was so crafty and used so much to her advantage. I think today has shown how manipulative she was, changing records, and trying to steer the thinking of her colleagues (that we’re starting to realise something wasn’t quite right), away from any deliberate harm and trying to make them think it was all natural causes. The manipulation and deviousness is going to become even more apparent in the next few cases, I really think today is such a massive turning point. Suddenly all the little things that individually you can kind of explain away or seemed innocent, take a very sinister turn and it becomes so more apparent that there’s nothing innocent about LL

 

[friedeggontoast]

How long til someone from FB does one of those angel wings edits of Lucy?

Hopefully with Paddington bear holding her hand walking into prison

 

[candyland_]

I’ve read back over the prosecution’s opening statement about Baby F on The Standard.

Baby F had TPN delivered at 4pm
Letby hung the bag at 12:30am

The next day doctor instructed the nursing staff to stop the TPN via the longline and provide dextrose and move the TPN to a peripheral line while a new long line was put in. All fluids were interrupted at 11am while a new long line was put in.

Notice there was no mention of providing a new bag at this point? However a new bespoke bag was delivered at 4pm. He was then taken off TPN at 6pm and began to improve with no further problems.

I think the first TPN bag was transferred over to the new line, the new line got contaminated and that’s why his problems continued after having a new bag delivered later in the afternoon.

 

[OldBlondie]

I don’t think BM ripped the professor to shreds. I think he threw shade as usual, but don’t think it made her seem any less credible. I think that the Prof is saying that she can’t say for sure the rash is air embolism (don’t think any expert could 100% say it’s definitely air), but what she is doing is ruling the rash out as being due to any blood condition at all. So what does that leave that could be causing it? By elimination she’s actually confirming.

She also is making it clear that the bleeding could not be spontaneous, but again can’t rule out for sure that it couldn't be due to gastro haemorrhage as there was no PM to confirm. So when the jury hear about the next bleeding injury, it isn’t going to be too much of a leap for to consider that both bleeding injuries are actually caused by external force (LL), rather than one being haemorrhage and one being LL, when they are so similar.

I don’t think BM discredited the Prof at all, I think that’s now 4 experts all concluding the exact same thing, and eliminating any other causes. I can see why the very first rash in these unexplained deaths wasn’t documented as at that time it may not have seemed relevant, but after it appeared a second time people started to pay more attention, and in hindsight there are many posters on here that have said looking back the signs are there you maybe just don’t realise them at the time


Again elimination leads to confirmation for A&B:

ETA*** And there we have it fellas, confirmation of insulin NEVER being in tpn bag

ETA just saw this so adding on; Ohhhhhh I can fully appreciate WHY the judge has said this today:

 

[docmum]

I am so confused by this. Nurses, when off duty, have to text the other nurses to make sure only the dose they’ve signed for is administered?

independent decision by the single department lead in this particular hospital if so, can’t help there I’m afraid. Legally - absofeckinglutelynot.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

For those questioning the fact that child F was prescribed insulin at one point during his care and if this could have had some consequence for the later event (insulin poisoning) .

The doctor tells the court that Child F had received 'rapid acting insulin' on July 31, but the effect of that insulin would have "long gone" by the time the hypoglycaemia episode was recorded on August 5.

I’m fairly certain from the evidence todayJuly 31st was the only time (or last time) baby F was prescribed insulin. It really is correct that by august the 5th this would have no relevance to Baby F’s hypoglycaemic attack or the current charge. Insulin is broken down rapidly, and fades completely after about four hours. Higher doses may last slightly longer, but will last no more than six hours. We can completely rule this dose of insulin out, it really is a fact that baby f was wrongly administered insulin on august the 4th/5th . The doctor is correct when he says it would have been “long gone”. I think what this demonstrates rather is how the culprit used each situation to their advantage!

 

[OldBlondie]

He just makes himself sound uneducated to be honest because he is clearly clutching at straws as he hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

I know a lot about diabetes, insulin & low blood sugars and he’s just making himself sound like an idiot.

He’s an idiot fella

In all seriousness though I always can’t help BM has something up his sleeve yet, but some of this defence has felt weak, such as the freezing non issue today. Will be interesting hearing the rest of his cross with Prof, I really don’t see how he’s going to be able anything on this one though

View attachment 1759398
Damning evidence! Today has no doubt been a turning point for the jury. We are dealing with a psychopath!!!! Trying to cover her tracks. There is absolutely no other reasonable explanation

I’m convinced she’s a psychopath, there are some tell tail signs, and I just can’t believe anyone other than a psychopath could possibly inflict this literal pain and torture on tiny little babies. I’ve no doubt she’s going to be the worst, most evil SK ever in the uk and no prison sentence could ever be enough for her, I hope they make her life hell in there, just like she’s done to so many families. Still won’t bring the precious babies back, and I’m sure every one of the families will have to continue to live with this for the rest of their lives, I only hope this will help them move forward, and get the further help they may need to do that. And her colleagues, they’re lives will never be the same. So much ruin and devastation and destruction, all from this one monster. She’s depraved

 

[docmum]

Thank you, I don’t like assuming too much on medical protocol, as I’m very obvs not medical so always like to clarify something like this. As always thanks again for taking the time to explain it for people like me that are not medical, and maybe don’t always get the relevance of certain key bits. Would you make any guesses on what the pump stuff was all about today? Is it to show that insulin couldn’t have gone in through pump, or something else entirely do you think?

They took time to discuss that the pumps can have a manual override to bolus extra fluid even if they are set on x mls per hour, and I believe they implied that using this override would not prevent an air embolus passing over to the patient either. The machine would alert if an air embolus was naturally caught before reaching the patient whilst on its mls per hour setting, and wouldn’t reconnect flow until the tube was flushed sufficiently - this is a safety setting. But giving the bolus overrides this safety feature.
They are progressing to show how it would have been possible to override the machines and give a bolus of fluid or air via this method. Because the machines don’t alert with the bolus, it could have been done to patients that she wasn’t supposed to be caring for as wouldn’t have alerted anyone in the middle of the night. The screen also doesn’t leave a ‘receipt’ so there was no way for the responsible nurse to know that an extra few mls of contaminated fluid or air had been pushed through in their absence.
This is what has sickened me today. I somehow wasn’t prepared for this level of calculation.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I know it’s not relevant to anything in the trial, but I really want to see her mugshot.

They won’t release that unless she is found guilty. I’ve seen people online asking where is her mug shot etc etc, if she was a man it would be released and all the rest! However, I am fairly certain mug shots are only released if a person has entered a guilty plea or after a trial. I’m sure once the trial has concluded and (she is found guilty), the mugshots will come and so will the comments from the people “who knew there was something off about her all along”!

I know you weren’t asking why we haven’t seen it I’m sure you are aware, but there are many online who can’t grasp this.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

And his levels rose again when the TPN was disconnected… and then dropped when it was back on and then rose again when the bag was removed…

The signature from her claiming his level was normal is a damming bit of evidence to be honest. If at an hour after the reading of 1.9, even if he had been given glucose, that would have been a hell of a jump from 1.9 to 2.9 if he had been following the patterns.

 

[riddleme89]

On Facebook one man has Defendwd her so much coming out with bizzare things

he’s just said after baby F he thinks she might be guilty . Baby E and F have definitely been a turning point in this case and it’s obvious at this point that it can’t just be a coincidence