Lucy Letby Case #17

[Tofino]

I know that no babies on the ward were receiving insulin but even if someone accidentally gave the baby a dose, would a normal dose cause the insulin readings to be that high? Or would it have to be two accidents - wrong baby and huge dose ?

Also the insluin the babies had were fast acting so wouldn’t explain why this baby had low blood sugars for so long even with treatment. So again, even if the wrong baby and wrong dose was an accident, the baby would have recovered a lot quicker with the dextrose treatment.

I just don’t know how the accident argument would ever stand, and even BM isn’t even suggesting it at this stage.

I still can’t get my head around another missed opportunity for the hospital to safeguard these babies from harm, especially those much further down the line.

 

[craig84]

I'm interested to hear the defence when the time comes. I'd assume on what we have heard that rather than deny stuff like the insulin they will create doubt around the fact it was LL- as most is circumstantial so far I do wonder if they'll be successful.

I’m interested in hearing what this professor says and what his/her medical speciality is

 

[docmum]

I’m wondering did they cover it up thinking staff had made a mistake but baby is fine so left it
I’m not saying all staff but many things get covered up in the NHS but I don’t think for one minute they imagined a baby killer they probably just thought being under staffed things happen

its in a locked fridge in the same area as other controlled drugs. Giving a patient who needs insulin the wrong dose of insulin, even by a unit, is a ‘never event’. Protocols escalated, formally reported by the hospital etc. There is clearly a delay in the blood results coming back as they are specialist tests and well off site in a different trust. But it will be interesting to hear how the department handled it when they did come back. It’s quite possible baby F was well and not even on the unit any more which leaves the question open to as to whether a doctor was verbally informed when the results were sent back over or whether they weren’t checked until baby F was then followed up in clinic or by another trust etc.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I’m interested in hearing what this professor says and what his/her medical speciality is

I forgot about this. I really want to hear this too. If this is true I think I would just put myself firmly in the unsure vote. At the moment though I've been turned.

 

[docmum]

I know that no babies on the ward were receiving insulin but even if someone accidentally gave the baby a dose, would a normal dose cause the insulin readings to be that high? Or would it have to be two accidents - wrong baby and huge dose ?

Also the insluin the babies had were fast acting so wouldn’t explain why this baby had low blood sugars for so long even with treatment. So again, even if the wrong baby and wrong dose was an accident, the baby would have recovered a lot quicker with the dextrose treatment.

I just don’t know how the accident argument would ever stand, and even BM isn’t even suggesting it at this stage.

I still can’t get my head around another missed opportunity for the hospital to safeguard these babies from harm, especially those much further down the line.

For the sugars to behave as they did, and for that 0:0 ratio, it had to be prolonged constant exposure at the time the blood test was taken.

 

[Tofino]

I’m interested in hearing what this professor says and what his/her medical speciality is

He’s referring to the below from the prosecutions opening statement (I’ve added the numbers to show the 3 explanations). He’s saying the below doesn’t prove it was actually Lucy. Which technically he’s correct because this is just showing how it was the first bag that was deliberately tampered with. There should be other evidence that proves it can only have been Lucy on both occasions.


Professor Hindmarsh said the following possibilities happened.

(1) That the same bag was transferred over the line, (2) that the replacement stock bag was contaminated, (3) or that some part of the 'giving set' was contaminated by insulin fron the first TPN bag which had bound to the plastic, and therefore continued to flow through the hardware even after a non-contaminated bag was attached.

"There can be no doubt that somebody contaminated that original bag with insulin.

"Because of that...the problem continued through the day."

 

[Aberscot]

If I was Lucy and not guilty I would be fuming today at my defence, surely They could have come up with something.

 

[friedeggontoast]

The only line the defence can take now is that it happened, it just wasn’t LL who did it.

So who did?

 

[docmum]

Thinking about it, BMs parting comment about ‘returning to it later’ makes me think that when the next baby who presented in the same way, he will hammer Dr Gibbs as to why it wasn’t picked up if they had reason to suspect poisoning with the bloods available. So likely we’ll find out then.

 

[MmmB777]

I know that no babies on the ward were receiving insulin but even if someone accidentally gave the baby a dose, would a normal dose cause the insulin readings to be that high? Or would it have to be two accidents - wrong baby and huge dose ?

Also the insluin the babies had were fast acting so wouldn’t explain why this baby had low blood sugars for so long even with treatment. So again, even if the wrong baby and wrong dose was an accident, the baby would have recovered a lot quicker with the dextrose treatment.

I just don’t know how the accident argument would ever stand, and even BM isn’t even suggesting it at this stage.

I still can’t get my head around another missed opportunity for the hospital to safeguard these babies from harm, especially those much further down the line.

Would have to be three huge mistakes - nobody needed insulin let alone this baby, insulin dose incredibly high and administered in totally the wrong way.
It’s not possible. There was a murderer on the ward and that person was Letby

I’m interested in hearing what this professor says and what his/her medical speciality is

This just means that yeah ok you’re going to hear a very intelligent knowledgable professor explain to you it had to be synthetic insulin administered but… was it Letby though. Umm..yeah 🫢
I wonder if anyone except Lucy was there on both the poisonings. Poor other person if there was. I’m sure they were thoroughly investigated. If there wasn’t… are we to assume there were two other people with murderous intentions. Or could it have been the person continuously there giving treatment before all these incidents

 

[LilyRose1234]

If I was Lucy and not guilty I would be fuming today at my defence, surely They could have come up with something.

But hadn’t she even said in interview it couldn’t be an accident? Their best bet is surely going to be yes it was on purpose, no it wasn’t LL, so it’s going to be the cross examination of the nurses etc that he’ll be relying on to show no one saw her, everyone had access, could have been anyone, then building a picture through the case of the chaos of the unit to suggest that no one can say beyond reasonable doubt it was LL. given the apparently solid medical evidence, not sure what else he can do!

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Sorry but on the subject of Harold Shipman. He was apparently 52 years old in that mugshot!!!! Talk about aging like a banana he looked old enough to be brothers with Fred Flinstone.

 

[Pulltheotherone]

My memory poor today but did she not say in interview that the bag was not what she thought it was ?

 

[MmmB777]

My memory poor today but did she not say in interview that the bag was not what she thought it was ?

This was for baby A. What a weird thing to say eh. Presumably because baby a’s collapse, like many others, was straight after she’d given a treatment. She says she asked for the contents to be kept and checked. Nobody recalls her doing so. Odd. Odd. Odd.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Sorry but on the subject of Harold Shipman. He was apparently 52 years old in that mugshot!!!! Talk about aging like a banana he looked old enough to be brothers with Fred Flinstone.

CHRIST - removing serial killer from my list of potential roles … seems somewhat stressful and aging

 

[riddleme89]

Those poor parents they lost a baby just the day before and nearly lost another how heartbreaking

 

[raspberryjuice]

Sorry but on the subject of Harold Shipman. He was apparently 52 years old in that mugshot!!!! Talk about aging like a banana he looked old enough to be brothers with Fred Flinstone.

No way?! I havent started watching the documentaries about him yet but from his pic I thought he was in his late 60s/early 70s just googled him and he was dead at 57! He could easily have passed for 20 years older

 

[MmmB777]

No way?! I havent started watching the documentaries about him yet but from his pic I thought he was in his late 60s/early 70s just googled him and he was dead at 57! He could easily have passed for 20 years older

Where did he shop though?!

 

[PeninsulaAndOriental]

Someone F**K me pink blue and yellow

Facebook groups very quiet today, although one of them seems to be entertaining the idea this was a mistake and it could have been anyone on the ward.

Am I really missing something? The defence have rolled over and accepted this Doctors statement. Am I actually going crazy?????,,

 

[raspberryjuice]

Where did he shop though?!

Definitely BHS or Edinburgh Woollen Mill for his fancier clothes