Lucy Letby Case #17

[candyland_]

My theory is she was driven by deep jealousy that turned into hatred so she took away other peoples happiness. I have met many people that can’t cope with seeing others have things they don’t have.. They would break things or sabotage relationships out of pure bitterness. She couldn’t even cope with ‘the new girl’ being in the room she wanted to be in.

I know she was only 25 but some people do want to see themselves married with children by that age.. We know she wanted that for herself from the note and some people can’t cope with not reaching their goals. Someone previously said that her attacks happened around the time she had been at hen dos, weddings and close to Valentine’s Day. Another coincidence or did they tip her over the edge?

I could be completely wrong - Just my thoughts.

 

[friedeggontoast]

BM not questioning the Dr is hugely damning IMO. They are accepting that someone administered that insulin to the baby, so who did it BM?

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

Guilty and everybody probably knows that and why! If the crimes accused have taken place, this is exactly the kind of evidence I would expect to hear and see, no big glaring serial killer wringing their hands and laughing manically moments. Big picture has already formed for me and we are only at E. Will take a lot from the defence to show that it could have been down to her luck, chance (both that the docs are covering up and it all happened on her shift or her chance at constantly being on for rare, unexpected, unusual deaths and near deaths) or a bias/cover up. Again all the icing on the cake type evidence fits what I would expect for the crime and probably motive.

I agree and they can claim it’s all built on coincidences all they like, but these are big bloody coincidences! How do sets of twins that are doing fine just randomly collapse at around the same time and this happen to more than one set of multiples!
Also the fact that it’s always her baby or her on the scene or her giving meds!
Far too many “coincidences” for me.

Add that to the fact that the death rate shot through the roof when most premature babies born are surviving now. It just feels like there’s a big neon sign saying she’s guilty in my eyes!

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I just can’t understand how a PM wasn’t pushed for. I get that at the time they obviously didn’t suspect a nurse had done it and they probably did think it was something natural, but it came out of nowhere and it was an horrific death.

I know she’s apologised and I’m sure she regrets it, but I just can’t understand it at all.

I feel like a PM would have given so many answers for this case.

 

[candyland_]

I think people tend to feel unsure when we hear the doctors accounts and then others feel more swayed to guilty when we hear the parents accounts, Lucy’s texts, her involvement in the collapses and her behaviour afterwards. I could be mistaken but the thread moves in waves and I think the case will all tie up as we move through.

 

[candyland_]

I still think she is guilty.
You could remove the text messages and Facebook searches but she was still the constant presence in the collapses. On all occasions she had administered care to them moments before their sudden deterioration or she was found to be stood by them - multiple times she stood there and took no action until someone else came along.

 

[candyland_]

I feel like she is pushing some blame onto the designated nurse here. I’m struggling to see why she always needs to be kept in the loop too in regards to updates with the babies - she wasn’t supposed to be involved in their care.

 

[MrsHinchBarmyArmy]

Yup, E & F are very heavily swinging it for me.

And PP have been right in her text correspondence to colleagues.....they might have been feeling shit too but not once do any of her messages support them, they're all in support of her!

 

[docmum]

Maybe something she does again when the other baby is poisoned. Encourages a social event with the others to find out what’s happened to the baby. Must be in there for a reason.

i think she likes to stay ‘in the loop’ re chat amongst her colleagues to ensure no one is on to her. Checking she’s still popular if you like. Similarly I have wondered if her searching a few different sets of parents on the same day could have been to see if they were ‘friends’ and could have been communicating re experiences. Scarily if im right then her paranoid actions indicate a full awareness of exactly what she had done and the deserved consequence.
off to have a read of today re insulin etc, if there’s anything I can decipher I’ll do my best

 

[docmum]

Hopefully juror ok and back tommorow, maybe he’s a football fan …..

hit the nail on the head here…! However I do have some empathy for these jury members. Sunday blues/anxiety must be enormous and they’re going in to the week knowing the same distraught mum from last week will be giving more evidence. I think we have a good justice system don’t get me wrong. But I imagine with real life happening along side hearing those things in court, there must be the occasional day where you just feel like you ‘can’t’

 

[friedeggontoast]

IMO she is guilty as sin. All of it. She’s evil.

 

[Hannah_204]

@Tofino great work!! Your going to get asked to give evidence at this rate!

 

[friedeggontoast]

Someone poisoned those babies with insulin. If LL didn’t do it, then who did!?

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I truly believe someone is guilty and at the moment everything points to Lucy.

A lot of money and time has been spent on this case and I’m pretty sure that they wouldn’t have done that if they didn’t feel like they could get a conviction and if they didn’t feel it was in the public interest.

It is an emotive case. I don’t have children and I don’t want them, but I can’t even imagine the absolute heartache of having your poor baby snatched away from you in such a cruel way. It makes me feel physically sick listening to the evidence and I am so angry for these parents.

People can disagree with me that’s fine. I’m happy to listen to the defence, but I’m not sure that they’ll have anything that will change my mind.

 

[MmmB777]

The test is done by immunoassay so physically requires more time to run (70 minutes of waiting, not including setup). Its also not an urgent test, because the clinician should be treating the blood sugar in the meantime. The result didn't change anything acutely, what it would do is tell you if the baby had an insulinoma, or whether it was synthetic insulin in combination with a C-peptide level.

Another thing that sticks out to me is that they can pretty definitively say it's the bag with the insulin in. They changed everything downstream at some point with no improvement, but when they changed the TPN back F got better.

TPN is made bespoke for each child, so there is no reason for anyone to inject anyone in, so they can't say the wrong drug was accidentally picked. Additionally, I suspect Aseptic Pharmacy will be able to prove there was no insulin in their department where the bag was made up.

LL signed for that bag alone, rather than having a second checker as is normal practice. When you check bags together, you give them a squeeze and check for contamination via injection. There were sufficient staff for LL to have a check if needed, and TPN isn't a drug you need to give instantly or they die. You can wait a few minutes and do it properly.

I think they've got her on this one.

This is such a good explanation and there is just absolutely no way it was accidental. Letby says so herself. She thought she was so clever- do it and leave. But she’s been caught and she’s going to pay for what she’s done (as she says herself) every day of her life. Sorry she does make me go a bit daily mail reader to be honest and it’s another reason I hate her so.
Her texts are insane considering she was not this baby’s nurse. I have nurse friends and they’re very dedicated lovely people but when I’m with them, they don’t mention patients or speak to colleagues and constantly get updates or think about work much at all except to maybe have a general tiredness moan. Maybe I’m just amazing company seriously though for a young woman it’s bonkers.
Whoever said it as well, the reaction of the des. Nurse going oh no and wracking her brains about what she missed- Letby is evil. Yet when people are saying to her Jesus you’ve had a bad run she’s all “luck of the drawer (it’s draw hun)” and “well it could happen to anyone” Lucy isn’t wracking her brains is she, she’s organising salsa and buying a house. Or is she crying her eyes out? Nothing quite adds up.
The “oh dear” is another amazing spot that I hadn’t noticed! Is that Letby the prophet again with her insider information. Letby always knows best. This baby that looks very unwell is fine leave them with me, this baby who’s recovering is going to die.
Sorry but somebody was trying to kill babies with insulin and it is obvious it was her. She’s done it all.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Kicking myself for being taken in by this woman. I will say I do think some of these charges she may not have done and it is easier for people to blame her for everything. But these 2 babies have done it for me. If I was a juror the fact baby E didn't have a PM would be enough reasonable doubt for me to say officially NG. Baby F would be my first G verdict if I was a juror. The wickedness is chilling. One of mine was born under 5lb and only cause he was surprisingly healthy he didn't have to go neo natal like I'd been pre warned before giving birth. I'd never seen anything so tiny, he was the size of my friends hand. To think someone could cause harm to something that tiny and innocent, little babies half the size he was. It is unbearable. Parents upstairs oblivious whilst their babies are being snuffed out downstairs. It is giving me the chills I have actual goosebumps typing this.

She's a monster.

What she has done is unconscionable, utterly evil.

I believe that's why she got away with it for so long, who could imagine, who could believe their dorky work colleague could be capable of this kind of depravity!?

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I think she saw herself as higher up and more authoritative than she was. She wasn’t a shift leader or a doctor so I don’t know why she needed to involve herself in every babies care. It’s a bit overbearing. She claims to have more experience than others - but she was still only a 25 year old. There would have been staff in the role for 20+ years.

She really does have an unfounded high opinion of herself. All these babies dying around her and she doesn't once question her practice or methods???

 

[Tofino]

The description of the blood during CPR sounds horrific

I guess the delay between mum seeing the blood and the Dr being summoned is what’s making it seem likely she was involved. Maybe LL wouldn’t have called the Dr if mum hadn’t seen the blood…

This is why it’s so important to decide if it’s the parents or Lucy telling the truth about the 9pm incident. I believe the parents because the scheduled 9pm feed and the phone calls also back up the timeline of what they say happened.

I believe the mum when she said Lucy told her the blood was caused by irritation from the NGT.

I don’t believe the registrar was already on his way.
I believe Lucy told mum to go back to the ward so she could then page the registrar and mum wouldn’t know she hadn’t already done it.

what she specifically did to that baby I just don’t know but this 9pm incident reported by mum and dad and the denials from Lucy (and what I think are falsified notes) is what makes me believe Lucy deliberately harmed that baby.

the criticism by Myers of the registrar and consultant doesn’t address what caused the problem in the first place. The only thing that it makes me wonder is if they could have saved the baby and would this be attempted murder rather than murder. And no doubt those what ifs may haunt the parents and the doctors. However if Lucy deliberately harmed the baby ultimately it’s her fault the baby died and nobody elses.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Considering if she is found guilty she would be one of the worst serial killers in British history it does make me a bit frustrated at some of the reporting - or lack of. We have medical experts up in court testifying that this could absolutely not have been an accident and suggesting how it could have happened and we get a few tweets from some journalists. But other days we get a couple of nurses giving a brief statement to set the scene of that shift and their every word is reported by the live reporter in court that day.

It baffles me that it’s such a huge case, that could very well be spoken about for the rest of our lives, and it’s getting barely any attention in the media. I also don’t really understand why the live reporting only happens 3, sometimes 4 days a week. The paper know it’s going to be in court 5 days a week can they not arrange another person to run the live feed it the other is only willing to do part time?

Outside of this thread I don’t know anyone talking about it. I mentioned it to someone a few days ago and they had no idea what I was going on about.

It's such a long trial, most people are only interested once there's a verdict. It'll be everywhere if she's found guilty.

 

[Tofino]

I’m struggling to understand why nothing was done when they got the blood results back, even if baby was ok. They knew it couldn’t have been accidental, they knew it wasn’t a natural cause - so why did this not raise any alarm bells in anyone? I know the baby was ok by this point but surely it still points to a deliberate act.