Lucy Letby Case #15

[OldBlondie]

Wow wow wow the way Judith has reported what BM said is even worse!!!

This isn’t just querying if she made a mistake with timings.

View attachment 1729868

Don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks I agree with PP, BM is not a nice fella, he is in fact a cunt

 

[raspberryjuice]

I don’t want the NG people to explain why they feel that way to pick them apart or to tell them they’re wrong or try to convince them to change their mind. I hope they don’t feel like they have to justify why they feel that way. I’m just genuinely curious to read what they’re seeing that I may be missing, or I’m misunderstanding or if I’ve taken something the wrong way.

And the information from the medically trained posters, the experts on law, the admin clerks at the hospital, the parents who have sat by an incubator in NICU sharing their personal experiences etc are all so helpful and insightful and really help with understanding this case. I hope none of you stop posting or if you have stopped but are still reading I hope you start posting again. Your knowledge, experience and stories are so important.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

I wonder if she deliberately went into nursing with a plan all along to harm others or if it came later. It was said to be her dream job.

I very much doubt it. If you had that urge you’d be showing traits of it long before getting through studies and training. I suppose we won’t know until the end of the trial what she was like growing up.

If she’s guilty, my theory is she enjoyed the attention and sympathy she got, maybe she did really well looking after the babies and liked the attention, I’d like to think a baby died naturally but she realised she enjoyed that side of it too.

thanks for the new thread, I haven’t voted yet. I’ve had some time off these threads because it’s too much sometimes.

to all, I enjoy the camaraderie and support here so if anyone needs it I’m sending love and support.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Found some lovely candles from a seller in Cheshire.

 

[OldBlondie]

I can’t imagine how those parents feel looking back and remembering Lucy gave their poor baby a bath after he died.

It’s like the final insult

LL is just sick, she’s so calculating and cruel. Those poor parents

Absolutely none and nobody now can convince me otherwise

Me either




“The mum said Letby "told her to go back to the ward", and she did what she was told as Letby "was in authority and knew better than me and I trusted her - completely."

This is horrific, she betrayed the undoubting trust these parents were putting into her to look after their precious babies and help them, all the while she was doing the most unthinkable awful harm to them. This is just so horrendous to hear. The parents must be so traumatised

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Slightly confused over recent posts, I really felt like the threads were finally in a good place. Everyone was being respectful, listening to each other’s opinions and the arguments and bickering had completely stopped!

In terms of the “NG camp” being asked to explain why they believe she’s NG, we’ve all been asked that throughout the threads. I’m confused why that is a problem but hey ho. If you are going to post your opinion, what’s the problem with having to explain why? We’ve all done that over the course of the threads.

I like reading everyone’s opinions from all sides of the NG/ G/ unsure. Hopefully we can all carry on as we were fellas

100% I don't get the issue with having to explain why you think a certain way on a literal discussion thread. It's sort of the point is it not?? And I think people are being MUCH kinder and respectful now than they were when I first joined. If you don't want to post then don't, I'm not gonna (and I don't think anyone should) try and convince anyone to stay. We are all adults.

 

[abelleza]

Yeah I'm believing that the scream was horrendous Ben Myers, this is regarding Child N.

I shouldn’t make a joke when we’re talking about such harrowing stuff, but please charge your phone fella

 

[Emsie]

I've been dipping in these threads and reading the wiki... whoever is keeping that updated is an absolute legend.
Still unsure. But I think it's because my brain won't go there. I've tried to make it but it won't accept woman, nurse, baby, harm, killer. I know I'm stereotyping but Jesus this case is overwhelming.
It seems like there isn't one peice of ahaaaa! Got ya!!! evidence, but lots of little bits that are getting harder and harder to excuse.

 

[Deeznutslol]

My opinions are much more unpopular than that, I dared not even post my true feelings but arse washing and chicken washing sounds tame

The UO thread was very strange tbh. Someone would come on and say something like ‘people on benefits should be sterilized so they can’t reproduce’ and people would be like . Then someone else would come on and say something like ‘people who don’t wash their meat are grim’ and everyone would start cursing their entire bloodline .

 

[MmmB777]

I’ve worked in SCBU for 3 months over 20 years ago. I’ve had my own baby in NICU. They definitely cry, mine did. I’ve heard babies born to addicts scream in NICU/SCBU as they are born addicted and withdrawing even though they are treated with powerful drugs. No one forgets that cry. I am trying not to be too specific about my own details here as my current job is fairly specialised.



I think what he said is fairly outrageous and an obvious lie if the media have reported his response word for word.



I am not entirely sure what you mean by this question. What I mean is, if she is being falsely accused. The legal position is absolute innocence until found guilty by a jury (or judge or magistrates). No-one knows if she has actually done any of the things she is accused of. No-one except her.

The doctor isn’t on trial, I don’t have any reason to think he would lie, I think it would correlate with other medical evidence we will hear about baby’s vocal chords not being visible, blood loss, injury. It’s not going to be the thing that convicts her either way. I can see you have totally different view which is fine, we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether it’s significant enough to make an impact of Letby’s innocence or not.

I think everybody here is well aware that innocent until proven guilty is absolutely the correct legal position. However, this is a discussion forum and none of us are J or J and can form whatever opinions we like. Sorry if that is frustrating. I don’t think I’m more right for feeling the way I do and get accused of being arrogant and ridiculous for coming to my conclusions so quickly but continuously it’s made out that my position is ‘wrong’. That’s fine but I couldn’t personally care less if people want to be on the fence till the last minute, NG even if she’s found G or decided guilty when they saw her in the floppy hat and pink hoody. One position isn’t better than the other as we’re not on the jury and none of us are behaving as though we are because we are discussing the case.
I have found your contributions really interesting and tried to point out areas I agree with you, please don’t see this as me saying you cannot share them, just feel like I don’t need it pointed out that she’s innocent until proven guilty and don’t feel that means I have to conclude she is. I admire people that can stay that open minded! I’ve felt guilty early on for many high profile crimes and don’t feel it’s had any impact on anything because I did!

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

I was in a long term relationship with a guy, and only toward the end did I finally ‘discover’ he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Covert, specifically) and I learned a term called ‘Toxic Amnesia’ which is where someone does something bad (like cheating, violence, etc) but then pretends to not remember at all. LL’s constant ‘I don’t recall’ reminds me of that! Obvi the majority of Narc’s have low/no self esteem, so not only is toxic amnesia a way of gaslighting & manipulation, abuse etc, it’s also a way for them to keep their esteem. There was actually numerous times I discovered him searching for specific women on Facebook and he’d say “I don’t remember doing that”. LL definitely remembers searching these families on social media, she just doesn’t want to admit to it. This would be straight DP in the states, for suuuure.

** Edited to say - Lots of Psychopaths (if not all) exhibit Narcissistic traits. **

 

[OldBlondie]

Yes and even Lucy’s own notes show the feed was due at 9pm, except she wrote it was to be omitted, which neither the SHO or mother remember. Mum would remember being told this.

Letby's notes also show: "prior to 21:00 feed, 16ml mucky slightly bile-stained aspirate obtained and discarded, abdo soft, not distended. SHO [Senior House Officer] informed, to omit feed." The prosecution say the nursing notes made are false, and fail to mention that Child E was bleeding at 9pm. They mention a meeting that neither the registrar or the mother remember.

The fact that it’s from here on in really that she starts falsifying notes, to me shows this is her maybe realising people are getting suss (especially after the “something odd text” etc). And this is her starting to become far more calculating and devious, and is falsifying notes and conversations in a bid to cover her tracks, there are so many more note falsifying incidents after this

 

[thegirlscout]

Anyone who fancies a bit of balance, if you don't need it, that's fine too.

Maternity and neonatal services in East Kent: 'Reading the signals' report

The report of the independent investigation led by Dr Bill Kirkup on maternity and neonatal services in East Kent.

www.gov.uk

Snippet below

Spoiler

Had care been given to the nationally recognised standards, the outcome could have been different in 97, or 48%, of the 202 cases assessed by the Panel, and the outcome could have been different in 45 of the 65 baby deaths, or 69% of these cases.
l The Panel has not been able to detect any discernible improvement in outcomes or suboptimal care, as evidenced by the cases assessed over the period from 2009 to 2020.

At first I discounted it as the statistics and length of time wasnt relevant enough, up until I came across that the neonatal unit had 16 deaths and 6 brain damaged children over the course of 9 months.

Other points of interest are failure to notice and escalate signs of deterioration adequately,
falsified/inadequately documented medical records to deflect blame from the trust and clinicians,
personal blame shifting and avoidance,
toxic work culture.
Failure in listening to parents health concerns,
minimising health concerns in both record form and to parents.
Staff saying things such as its gods will to parents after a death ect. All pretty grim tbh.

It has a lot of crossover to what prosecution are currently presenting, minus the killer nurse.
Also ties in with various defence cross examinations.

It Doesn't explain the insulin, and obviously it doesnt contain exact replications of cases in the trial, but hopefully I can drop this in without much offence to anyone, as its not intended, but i feel its relevant with the amount of related information available in the report.

It’s an interesting piece, thank you for sharing. If this isn’t a major cover up by the NHS trust and Lucy is guilty, their low standards of care and practice enabled her to commit these crimes. It’s an eye opener for all trusts.

 

[SamPam]

Yeah I'm believing that the scream was horrendous Ben Myers, this is regarding Child N.

 

[White]

I'm starting to wonder if her parents can continue to go there everyday and not have their doubts.

Maybe a lot of what they're hearing is new to them, not what she's told them. What must they be thinking now! They must have doubts by now. I don't think I could continue every day, for 6 months, to listen to it all. Given it's not close to their home as well I wonder where they are staying.

Saying all this, I know serial killers families have often stood by them. Harold Shipman's wife believed he was innocent, although I believe when he was sentenced she started to have her doubts.

 

[candyland_]

This is slightly off topic and horrifying but my driving instructor told me his brother grew up killing cats and other small animals in the 60s and 70s and went on to get a role in the army where he had the possibility to harm others.

I think she gives me the impression of being a bossy know it all type that liked to have power and authority over others. She probably couldn’t handle it when she wasn’t seen as number 1.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

No, but I'm saying that if they had a personality disorder then there would be red flags everywhere, and their functioning would be impaired in various aspects of their lives including relationships and career. We have no evidence of this.

My mother has a personality disorder, she "functions" just fine. She held down a job, appeared "normal" to a lot of people, didn't have many friends, didn't really have a social life as such but nothing majorly off from the outside looking in.

She was an absolute demon to live with (Street angle, house devil), I mean extraordinarily mentally abusive, physically withholding needs etc. A real monster.

It would be easy if bad people really were more obvious to spot but their not. Her abuse was shown in MY behaviour (not speaking, terrified, I couldn't function day to day) but she got on just fine.

Edited to say: this isn't intended to be a pity post honestly, people were just talking about PD's and how it affects how people function and I had some first hand experience of being able to say they are just fine! Not anyone that people really want to hang around with or anything but can work a 9-5 no problem!

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

That's court all over in my experience. Probably even worse in this case due to the sheer amount of work involved. I don't recall actually sitting down in court for longer than an hour or two at a time. It's all about the traipsing.


I agree. I'd like you to keep posting.
I do feel a little bit like some people feel like they led me by the nose to believe guilty. I'm a grown up, so am able to make my own mind up. I also think I could swing to NG or back to fence sitting following defence argument. I don't think there's much room for that here.
There are no winners. I think that's important to point out.

Also the medical witnesses so far aren't credible to me in part. I stick by that. I'd also like some understanding when I raise these witness issues. It's there in black and white and they're discussion points.

I'm keeping my emotions as light as possible here. I appreciate the jokes, but the sneering must stop.

I genuinely don't think there has been much sneering but I do agree in that I don't think anyone here should be made feel like thinking G or NG at any point is the only acceptable way of thinking.

We are all adults, we are all capable of rationalising and we shouldn't need to be "convinced" by others to think a certain way and reversely we shouldn't feel compelled to "make" others think a certain way either!

I may not agree with everyones posts here BUT generally, even the ones I don't ultimately agree with I can still take some good points from.

 

[MmmB777]

Can I quickly add as well that the crying thing I believe the picture was that the doctor had never heard a baby that premature (maybe I’m wrong and this was the bleeding?) cry this way not that they’d never heard a baby on the unit cry. I guess it’s indicative of trauma or there seemed to be no obvious reason why baby was screaming in a way that was indicative of distress I also think the defence saying it could be hunger is equally as unbelievable as I’d assume anyone working there would likely know the difference. There could be lots of other variants making the doctor feel that way, perhaps because of the medication or treatment the baby was on too Certainly still theoretically possible they could be lying but I’d personally disagree. I understand that language like that could make people think the witnesses undermine their own evidence though so agree in that respect. I just tend to corroborate the other factors and think about whether I personally can logically see why they’d lie/misremember. I understand that’s not how others see it.

So sorry if the next two charges are particularly awful for anybody

 

[stardust1]

Someone I follow on vinted has uploaded these. I feel they would be up Lucy’s street