Lucy Letby Case #15

[Haveyouanywool]

I absolutely agree with you fella, that it's dreadful to imply that. BM, or any defence lawyer, would sort of have to though, I think?

If my family member was on trial for something, and I believed they weren't guilty, (though I think LL is) I would be pissed off if the defence lawyer didn't press this point, on the basis it may upset a victim's parents. Noone would obviously want that, but it's the defences job to try to cast reasonable doubt for their client. The defence can't NOT do that, despite it upsetting others, or because it makes them look not nice.

BM would be a proper shit defence if he didn't, to be honest. It sounds like I am always defending him, but I am trying to see how I would want my daughter to be defended if she had pleaded not guilty, and if I as her mother genuinely believed her. I wouldn't give a shit if something didn't make the defence look nice (though would be gutted it upset the parents...but not as gutted as if the defence didn't question it and my daughter could go to jail as a result. Sorry! 🫣).

I totally appreciate how other fellas are seeing it differently and why they think he shouldn't pursue this line of querying though.

Dr Bohin had to bring this up, with all due respect to the parents, as it is a reasonable possibility, and it was BMs job to question it. Harsh, but it’s not about anyones sensibilities. It’s about unearthing the truth.

 

[xoxo GG]

I am also curious as to how the NG came to their decision! - not to argue etc, really just interested in their point of views!! And for the NG fella’s - Do you think someone else is guilty OR that these were failings by the hospital? (Or something else entirely?)

I’m not feeling like she’s NG but I am completely unsure. There’s multiple reasons as to why, I swing some days to she definitely did it and then others I look at some of the evidence and think about what an utter shit show the unit was and then I find myself wondering if it was her. I just have a gut feeling that I cannot shake, it cannot be explained and I don’t feel like right now I could sit there and say she’s guilty or equally that she isn’t. My mind will probably be changed everyday until the end and I may never be 100% either way

 

[Weeder]

Can I respectfully say why I feel this is different.. because you are not implicated at all in their deaths. At no point could you be arrested for their deaths, you’ve never been in their vicinity. So if you had been in the room with each of them when they died and their deaths were unexplained then it would be similar.

I'm so split over the Facebook thing. I'm terrible for falling down a rabbit hole on there. It's hard to find fault in someone else doing the same unless, as you say, there's a weight of other evidence making it sinister.

 

[just_nicole]

Sorry all had an eventful day of attempting flat pack building yesterday.

Still unsure, in the middle of reading an independent report of another Trust that reads very similar to the failings highlighted in this trial, and almost identical impacts on neonatal fatalities, still births and long lasting neurological damage to infants.

Right down to a nurse commenting something about it being gods will after a death and a midwife skipping into a room announcing "we're having a baby today!" Only it was already established the baby had passed

Keeps me balanced, do think it'll be integral to the defence though, so we will see if he uses it.

Doesn't explain the insulin though

 

[Tofino]

I’m not a medic but I thought the discolouration descriptions from witnesses were pretty similar? Not the exact wording of the journal but enough that it was clear they were all describing the same thing.

What is he suggesting though, that some of the staff were making it up or that it was some other unknown rash?

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

So what we’re seeing here is a murderer start at the beginning and as her deaths go on she gets more sinister. That’s how serial killers work and then get caught out eventually. She is pure evil

 

[Tofino]

I’m finding the medical experts pretty compelling again. Defence cross examination is just not giving me any cause for reasonable doubt as the other issues they raise, like blockage in the bowel, are explained away. It helps there are X-rays as it’s more tangible than just notes and memories.

 

[candyland_]

Her text to a colleague sounds so cold and detached. “Not a lot I can do really he had a massive haemorrhage. Could have happened to any baby”

 

[Aberscot]

The father has confirmed the time of the phonecall and the conversation about the bleeding, I notice Ben hasn’t questioned him much after he confirmed it.

 

[Parsnipface]

Hola fellas, I'll have plenty to read up on, wife and I have covid so everything hurts. Just wanted say hope this week is a smooth one for everyone.
And if covid was a person they defo designed kitten heels.
Sending love everyone

 

[stardust1]

If by some miracle the defence pull an ace out of the bag and it turns out she’s 100% innocent imma feel so bad about making fun of her

get her a peacocks voucher to say sorry

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Just to say, to no one in particular, I have a nursing background and I think she’s guilty.
Stating that most with a nursing or legal background are learning towards not guilty, mmm…I’m in no way sure that’s the case.

 

[struggs123]

I think anyone capable of doing the things that have been alleged must have something going on, it's not something someone of sound mind would be capable or comprehending let alone doing. That said I agree that armchair diagnosing only really goes to reinforce negative stereotypes and assumptions about certain MH disorders, and it diminishes self responsibility in some ways, but we humans like to try and rationalise things don't we- even though sometimes I don't think there is any explanation that makes sense.

It would be interesting to know more about her growing up etc, as we have only heard bits and bobs it's hard to know what she was actually like isn't it.

 

[Treesy19]

Possible/probable motive in my view is she did all this to create some drama. It was “boring” if a shift was a feed every hour or gentle monitoring. She wanted high drama action. She didn’t study nursing just to be stood there doing the odd feed, the odd nappy and updating computer notes.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Well today has been horrifically harrowing
I’m going to light a little candle tonight for that Angel and all of the others x

 

[friedeggontoast]

Spotted these LL stompers in LIDL

 

[WonderShade18]

If she has done this, I am praying that she changes her plea and spares these families of reliving this horror. Thats obviously just on the assumption that she's guilty. If innocent, this is such a horrid process for everyone. My heart is so heavy today.

 

[Tofino]

View attachment 1725147

First Lucy-core outfit, for those who want to get-the-look.

No offence to anyone who would actually wear this, I probs won’t do many of these because it’s difficult to find clothes ugly enough to imagine her wearing them - these were the best I could find (All in simplybe, Matalan let me down ).

tbh I would wear this but not the shoes. But I admit I have no dress sense. I prefer to be comfortable than fashionable. I’m not offended, as I don’t pretend otherwise. I’d be offended if it meant my lack of dress sense means I must be a serial killer though

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

What I mean is though, do you think your ‘gut’ is on hyper vigilance and perhaps, reads into situations with an extra layer of pessimism?

It’s not the same thing but I’m likening it to when someone gives you the ‘ick’ and all of a sudden things that didn’t bother you before majorly annoy you - it’s like you begin to pick up on every single thing if that makes sense?

No I don't think so honestly, I'm a pretty tolerant person and quite empathetic. I understand why you might think that but I have explained why I find her texts off before but I'll try and summarise again.

They come across as needy, self absorbed and quite draining. She seems to lack the ability to realise that others are having a hard time too, in fact, it doesn't seem to register with her at all in any of the messages I read.

She wants reassurance, seemingly struggles with boundaries as she's messaging colleagues on their days off with really heavy, sad news and doesn't get the hints when they want to end the conversations.

She crys about what a hard time she's having how she's genuinely struggling and when colleagues offer her solutions i.e "go see a therapist or take time off, I am not able to fix this for you" she backs off completely and still seeks to keep talking when to me it's so SO obvious that the colleague doesn't want to talk about this and is dropping clear hints.

Also the dropping other colleagues in it in her texts like "oh it was your shift I covered" or "such and such was looking after them" or being really dismissive of a collegeus concerns and outlining all the different reasons certain babies died. That just came across as really abrupt to me and odd.

She just comes across like a total energy drain and lacks boundaries and empathy to me

 

[friedeggontoast]

Slightly confused over recent posts, I really felt like the threads were finally in a good place. Everyone was being respectful, listening to each other’s opinions and the arguments and bickering had completely stopped!

In terms of the “NG camp” being asked to explain why they believe she’s NG, we’ve all been asked that throughout the threads. I’m confused why that is a problem but hey ho. If you are going to post your opinion, what’s the problem with having to explain why? We’ve all done that over the course of the threads.

I like reading everyone’s opinions from all sides of the NG/ G/ unsure. Hopefully we can all carry on as we were fellas