Lucy Letby Case #13

[Daisydunn15]

To be fair that was a nice sturdy bag

If you took your PE kit into school using anything else in the 00s then you just weren't it.

 

[Unfluencer]

Hi all! Glad to see a place where I can discuss this case because I’m checking the live updates every day.

Re: the texts - it’s so hard to work out the way she communicates without context. I know they can’t do it, but it would be good to see in general how she speaks to these people about more casual things. She’s clearly texting a mix of different colleagues and I for one know that I am more ‘dramatic’ when I am texting some friends, more fragile with some, more honest with others….even when I’m sharing the same bit of news the wording will be slightly different for everyone. The texts are so ‘flat’ as evidence.

 

[MmmB777]

See I'll let her off on that one. I think she's grabbed whatever she can to make herself a disguise. Probably her mum's hat. She's hardly going to have been down the shops.

See I see that pic and think nah I don’t need to hear anymore guys, save yourself 5 months of trouble. Absolutely nobody wearing that is anything except a psychopath You could not fucking stand out more ‍

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

People's ability to take in detail and remember it varies wildly, I was mugged at gunpoint, I was completely calm and managed to keep it together to remember the number plate, type and colour of the truck and a description of the driver, my friend was in a similar situation and couldn't recall anything. Police will tell you that not everyone makes a good eyewitness. It is entirely possible that the parents have decided it was Lucy simply because she was the one arrested. Not a single person on here can state how anyone else will react in a set of circumstances, infact most people don't even know how they would react either because we all react completely differently and often surprise even ourselves.

Eye Witness Testimony is also notoriously unreliable due to the brain's propensity to 'fill in the blanks'.

 

[OldBlondie]

And just to further say, as I was scrolling through the amazingly organised wiki, I ended up reading so much about the rest of the babies, so many bits that I’d forgotten I’d even heard. From what I’ve just re read this trial is going to get really horrific, I think it just gets more sad and sinister as it goes on. Especially, as someone else had posted earlier, about LL texting a colleague about googling Baby Ns blood condition saying it gives him a 50/50 chance, and then he’s one of the babies that looks like he has a bleeding injury caused by her. (Easy for her to cover with his bleeding condition) It’s honestly going to get so hard to hear as it goes on

 

[stardust1]

Do you think if she is innocent she will give tattle a read once she is free?

 

[coffeeandwine]

With regards to Lucy not 'looking' the type, I feel like a lot of people have the image of Beverly Allitt in their heads, who for most people is the case that comes to mind that compares. Beverly didn't fit the Western beauty standards in any way. I'm not going to say whether I think Lucy was pretty, plain or creepy looking as I don't think her appearance is relevant to her alleged crimes. However, I do think subconsciously people compare her to Beverly, and the two are world's apart physically. I will also say if someone compared a papped photo of me in the street to a posed, smiling one I'd probably look like a bag of shit

They're also very different characters from the little we know about Lucy. Beverly had a long history of attention-seeking behaviours, including medical stuff. She was aggressive towards others and even smeared faeces on the wall of a nursing home she worked in, long before she became a qualified nurse. The scant information we have about Lucy suggests a quiet woman who hasn't caused any trouble, until this investigation. That's not to say she couldn't have done it but I think a lot of people have the image of Beverly Allitt in their head when they think of a case like this, and it can be difficult to eradicate that.

 

[IGiveUp22]

If she is guilty, it’s hard listening to the other nurses be questioned about their care. Yes the hospital wasn’t great but they likely did all they could to care/save those babies & they would have survived if it wasn’t for LL

 

[Deeznutslol]

I’m not a native speaker and still find this error really annoying

That’s fine, but I personally think annoyances like these should be kept to yourself. There’s just no need to pull up others for grammar mistakes when you can quite clearly understand what they’re saying . Like what’s the point in making someone feel bad about the way they write for no reason?

 

[paulpercy666]

So to clear this up in my head - and I'm not being facetious or wanting to start arguments - but what *is* appropriate texts to a friend/colleague and what 'should' they look like? Because to me they don't read all that badly at all. I could well see myself texting back and forth along similar lines, I just don't get what the missing parts is I'm missing (and maybe it IS me missing the mark here?)

yeah, i think i agree with you although wasn’t sure whether it’s just my own social ineptness that’s making things difficult it surely all comes down to context doesn’t it - if she wasnt on trial for murder then we’d probably either think nothing of it or just think she’s a bit wet, looking for a pity party etc? honestly don’t know because i actually can see where some posters are coming from but i don’t think the messages themselves are damning really.

suppose it’s the same as when people comment on her looks and how that can give us an unconscious bias. something like the bottom of her face isn’t as innocent looking as the top half? if anything it’s given me a bit of a complex cos im no oil painting myself so dread to think what would happen if i was ever up at court

 

[Tofino]

In defence of Ibiza as a holiday destination for non-clubbers, there are some beautiful parts of Ibiza that are no where near the club scene, and which are family holiday spots. It looks like they went beginning of June, which is not high season either, so it would have been quieter, while I don't know what area of Ibiza they stayed in, I really don't think it's all that weird that her parents went to Ibiza and that she went with them.

I always had that opinion of Ibiza and never had any desire to go there until I saw someone post pictures of their holiday just this year and the area they were in was stunning. Now I want to go!

I don’t think it’s odd she went with her parents either. She might have had other holidays with friends and maybe her parents paid so why not go.

 

[gmf21]

Yes this! Her coming across as frumpy is not relevant as such and I get why people are saying that, and about bringing her parents into this. But it’s painting part of the bigger picture, and you’ve said it perfectly what I think some of us were trying to say about her dress sense and not really any friends her same age so dressing like she’s older etc.

It’s not that I don’t think it’s relevant, I’m fascinated to be truthful. It had just gone a bit year 9 and I felt sad for all the nurses who aren’t murderers but get crap breaks because people don’t like their boots.

I don’t think she’s really interested in clothes but she maybe lacks enough confidence in her looks to care, if that makes sense? The photos we’ve seen are presumably from her own socials so chosen by her, the face pulling is a bit “I’m mad me!” which I think often is a cover for “if I do this it doesn’t matter that I’m not pretty”. I mean I’ve done similar myself, just put my hand over my face when sitting next to a professional model at a wedding for example.

Doesn’t insecurity sometimes make people cross rather than sad? And adoring parents whose opinion isn’t shared by the wider world. Like an incel type mentality. I dunno, she’s an interesting one. Lots to speculate on. Anyway, best go do some keys to justify my shit house

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

You know the comment about "I killed them on purpose because I wasnt good enough for them"?
Could this mean that because LL wasn't getting placed in Room 1 as she wanted, she was trying to make all the other nurses look bad by having their babies die/deteriorate, so she would be the one "good enough" to be trusted to go back into the area she wanted?

She could have been wanting to make it look like colleagues were missing signs of sepsis or whatever, so that she looked like super nurse in comparison.

Edit: I know it's bonkers, but it's only just occurred to me (slow brain!), but this is probably me being Captain Obvious. I'm basically wondering if the second "them" refers to senior ward staff and not the babies like I first thought.

 

[MmmB777]

She was so deeply affected by the deaths but she kept overly involving herself with the parents afterwards (!?) and she took a back seat in all of their care according to her so why is she so upset?

That’s how I feel. There are subtle contradictions. She wants the sympathy about the babies deaths but she shuts down any shock or outcry that it’s all so strange fairly quickly and rationally compared to anybody else. Babies are so sick (why is her colleague in disbelief about all the recent events then) Why don’t some pull through..It’s fate. All of that seems incredibly OTT for someone that also just reels off a list of all ‘the different ways they died” (did they? Replies the colleague!)
The replies she gets are the most damning thing about the texts for sure - clear disbelief. clear picture of what a bad run Letby specifically is having (this was also said at baby a!) it makes it obvious to me that so far in this time period at least - it’s Letby that is the reoccurring feature of all these shocking unexpected incidents. If we accept her motivation likely isn’t violent (well ) or sexual and because a god complex/factitious disorder is more of a player in these kind of crimes, her seemingly seeking attention and sympathy would be of more importance.

She was so deeply affected by the deaths but she kept overly involving herself with the parents afterwards (!?) and she took a back seat in all of their care according to her so why is she so upset?

This is what I call a zinger. Absolutely this.

 

[stardust1]

Firstly I'm probably old enough to be some of your mothers and I don't shop in Bon Marche, and secondly I have the double leather Pandora I got for my 40 th.. And I only wear like 4 things on it from our travels.. So yah boo sucks fellas.....

let you off IF you’re a good fella

Haha me with the ‘she enjoys a browse in Matalan one’
View attachment 1705942

I have a personal issue towards matalan. The bastards make you do absolutely everything at the self service which never works. I may as well be going in as an xmas temp, taking off me security tag, then my hangers, scan my matalan cardthen you get stuck behind the grannies who have absolutely no idea how to use the self service all whilst there is 1 member of staff trying to sort out the new xmas range.

 

[MmmB777]

I don't want this to get heated, we've already been here, and I don't want to deep dive in to this today because I simply don't have time, however a child with unstable ABGs isn't stable, not now, not ever. I fear that child in particular was badly let down and unstable. I'll wait for the defense but i think they fucked up.. It's atrocious how that mother and baby were treated.

I do realise the doctors are using the word stable, it's not a crime to disagree. Plus it's a misnomer to say 'this child is stable' when the failed interventions/lines and slightly awry observations all are indicators of risk. Not having a line in is a risk indicator ffs.

I'm maybe drawing on my own experience, I really did put my everything in to looking after my allocated patients. I'd be furious with myself should my standards have been that shitty. They can't even document straight.

It still makes me on the fence.

I'm in no way suggesting she didn't kill them, I just feel like people working with neonates should be above rapprochement, it's THAT important.

But take waiting a few hours for fluids or lines (the placement is proven to be ok now!).. up and down the country babies would be dying left right and centre because that is just the state of things at the moment. Even waiting too long with waters broken, nobody is saying it’s perfect care, but it isn’t that rare an event, it would rarely result in death once antibiotics etc had been started. At the end of the day, there’s two investigations to say that the sub-optimal (less than perfect, show me a unit that’s perfect in the current climate?!) isn’t the reason for these deaths. Also, the care/machinery/staff cannot be wildly different to the previous years (or year after - except we know one person has been in jail!) so why did things change so drastically. Then you can corroborate that with the shock of people at the time, the notes at the time, cases sent to coroners and them unable to really pinpoint the death, Letby saying it was unexpected herself! All those people who actually witnessed the events cannot be vastly wrong so many times imo. And then just by chance, all these crashes/deaths/poisonings that are all either result of sudden much worse care or natural causes, have coincided with many interventions from Letby and it’s very bad luck that she searched the parents of these babies (before knowing they would be linked in this trial) in sets, for months and years and wrote out that she’s evil and did this and killed them on purpose. I just truly believe this will become impossible to explain this way by baby Q. I respect that your view is different.

 

[stardust1]

When they have good care. This trial has uncovered a series of problems with the running of this particular unit that MAY have complromised that (not saying Letby isn't also guilty)

"there's not much left to learn"

That's the craziest thing I've read on here.

and you don’t think this trial also uncovered how many times this same hospital tried to save these babies? It is not normal for babies to just collapse and die even in the NICU.

 

[candyland_]

I assumed that babies collapsing and passing away in NICU would be a fairly regular occurrence but it’s amazing to hear that this isn’t the case and that it’s rare.

 

[MmmB777]

I'm confused about why the doctors were so shocked that 800g seriously premature babies that can't feed or breath properly would suddenly deteriorate and die. Is that not why they were in ICU in the first place because they are at high risk of complications and death? They seem oddly determined in their evidence that this simply can't happen and the only explanation is murder. As a lay person this seems odd. If I was on the jury I would need a bit more convincing about the cause of death being deliberate and not a consequence of prematurity and/or negative effects of treatment efforts which has been suggested.

That’s one baby you’ve mentioned there, there are many more in this case. And no, from what I’ve heard and gathered from everybody here and the trial… babies rarely suddenly go into cardiac arrest and die, especially not when they have progressively been getting better. Have you read all of the wiki for each baby? It’s very informative. Granted, poor baby C is a trickier one because of a difficult start but there was obvious shock from everybody at what was going on, these babies shouldn’t have died. Just looking at the figures for other years shows you why they would also feel incredibly shocked at the “bad run” they were experiencing, only one person experienced them all though.

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

Hey, I'm chronically unpopular! I have lots of acquaintances who wouldn't have much bad to say about me but Ive never been in the cliques or in crowds at work/ school either...usually because they're beige A.F and can't stand anyone who is different or has any individuality.

Maybe I'm harsh on the basic bitches because I've spent my life being seen as a bit too threatening because i enjoy my own company and don't follow the crowd

Same!!!

The contour and highlights nurses where I worked didn't like me because I had sod all interest in looking glam on a night shift (or a day shift to be honest ). The old before their time ones didn't because i didn't want to hang around with a load of people in their 50s when I was in my late 20s and early 30s.

The alternative/goth/LGBTQ+ nurses were invariably more accepting, generally lovely and less cliquey. But I wasn't really one of them either. There were a few of us who felt the same way...like we just didn't fit anywhere.

I like my own company and would rather fellate Mr Blobby than go to a night club ever again, BUT I confess I own a pair of kitten heels I don't follow fashion and didn't know!!!! They are going in the bin today What is decent going out footwear now please? (Only ever go to the pub or to a gig so no idea!! Converse type things or biker boots is all I tend to wear).

There was one fella on one of the Facebook groups, said he often spoke to her whilst she was in prison.
He was a weird fella though, apparently he'd been invited to the trial by Lucy personally but her solicitors recommended against it.
By all accounts he said she was a wonderful friend

The male versions of the loons who marry convicts like Charles Bronson.