Think we can all agree on this one not being a nice fella
thank you for that, sometimes need a bit of a laugh on here
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thank you for that, sometimes need a bit of a laugh on hereBaby d being attacked 3 times is a real reach given what the study says about the fatality rate of air embolus. But again they might explain that
What do you mean by over simplifying it? What isn’t simple about it? ( that sounds rude but it’s a genuine question )
And I didn’t mention baby c because the cause in that case was different again sounds rude and it’s not meant to be.
I’m probably being stupid I don’t see what you’re getting at there? With a and c going to the coroner?
I think my theory that I am swaying most to is she loved the attention she could get after a baby died on her shift (the whole poor Lucy). Enjoyed the attention too much and got hooked.
Those poor families, there must be no peace for them whatsoever. I couldn't live with that if it was my daughter, I'd need to be sedated 24/7 to stay alive!
I was looking at him in the news report and thinking I bet to people at work he seemed so normal and dull yet he was capable of the most ungodly depravity. Horrific.
Yes I can well believe she may have accidentally killed one baby (just intended to harm it) and then got hooked.
Sorry if this has been posted already but I'm reading up about on factitious disorder imposed on another and this does sound a lot like what could be happening here.
"A caregiver makes a dependent person appear mentally or physically ill in order to gain attention"
Her comment about fate seems loaded and frankly, evil. I get the vibe she’s slyly attributing it to herself playing god.
My mother to a T
See I am not as convinced on that as she didn’t appear to help them or be the ‘hero’ but how you have worded it I think that disorder could still apply to my theory then? Her messages just seem attention seeking, I think she enjoyed people feeling sorry for her. It was clearly working.
Does anyone know about the Bawa-Garba case? A doctor who made mistakes leading to a death of a patient, systemic failure also played a role. Her and a nurse got found guilty of manslaughter and got struck off their registers. Bawa-Garba ended up being acquitted and is a doctor again. There was a lot about reflective personal notes she had written being used as evidence and a lot didn’t believe this should happen. The nurse was found guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence and her monitoring and record keeping was criticised.
So say Lucy was found not guilty of certain cases could she be found guilty of man slaughter by gross negligence and if so why shouldn’t other nurses/doctors involved in the care if this did happen to be what she was found guilty of? For example for Baby D there seems to be a lot of bad care from even before birth and for the other babies record keeping didn’t seem very good with the skin discolouration not being noted?
So say Lucy was found not guilty of certain cases could she be found guilty of man slaughter by gross negligence and if so why shouldn’t other nurses/doctors involved in the care if this did happen to be what she was found guilty of? For example for Baby D there seems to be a lot of bad care from even before birth and for the other babies record keeping didn’t seem very good with the skin discolouration not being noted?
I think this hits the nail on the head. You, and many others. Even me in the beginning! We are rationalising, surely no one can be THAT evil to tiny defenceless babies, so the only way brain can compute is to want to believe she’s NG.
Once I heard the prosecution statement it was all just TOO coincidental for me. I don’t know her motive, I don’t understand the ‘why’, but now I feel that she was causing them deliberate harm. I think the hospital failings are horrendous but only served to allow her to fly under the radar long enough.
I can’t stress this enough, babies don’t just collapse and die. Even poorly ones. Spontaneous respiratory/cardiac arrest is SO rare a busy neonatal unit would maybe only see this happen once every few years. Decline tends to be gradual, even with the sickest of babies. The fact we are now on Baby D, the fourth to collapse within days is mindblowing. This isn’t coincidental, there really is a murderer at work here.
Side note, I found Baby D’s story so harrowing today, it was awful. I hope everyone is protecting their own MH and taking breaks.
I wonder if she wouldn’t speak to a professional for fear they’d see through her and her false grief.I think aswell with the counselling, back in 2016, mental health wasn’t spoken about, like at all. Especially not like it is now. There was little to no awareness for it. When we were in the Nicu at the same time (diff area), I was offered it loads of times and everytime I literally said ‘oh my god no way’, because I thought it made me look crazy (I know awful). It’s only been the past couple of years or so, I have been able to speak properly and understand I have PTSD from those long months in there seeing my baby go through so much. And I did sink into depression. I am absolutely not defending her (because I think she’s evil), but I just thought I’d put another perspective in.
I also talk about 2016 like it was a million years agoI know it wasn’t, it does show how far we havecome regarding mental health though
I’ve always thought aswell if she’s guilty her internet history would have something related to her murder methods especially around the times she changed her methods, she felt confident enough to leave a trail of Facebook searches which says she wasn’t scared of linking herself to the deaths via her technology, a murder would for me not be searching the victims families on Facebook but being super duper careful not to incriminate her self by googling something related to the causes of death. Especially as at this time nobody suspected anything to do with air did they?
I would really expect her to have searched something relating to air injection or insulin if she’s guilty just seems a bit weird to me
I would really expect her to have searched something relating to air injection or insulin if she’s guilty just seems a bit weird to me
The study being used is from a totally different patient population. They may be neonates but they were ALL on very high pressure invasive ventilation. Yes, they had air embolism but these were caused by the high pressure invasive ventilation making their lungs ‘pop’. If your lungs are blown up and ‘pop’ you’re not likely to make it regardless of air embolism. It’s a similar outcome but a different mechanism.
I don’t think any of the babies so far have been on invasive ventilation, at the times of their deaths, and certainly not very high pressure. It’s totally different. You might ask. why use this study then? Because air embolism is very rare and you’re hardly going to inject air into a baby and see what happens. Not legally anyway.
It’s not a rude question but inject 5mls of air (or varying amounts as we don’t know how much was used) into the blood stream and it could literally go anywhere in the body. It could break-up, stay together, lodge anywhere. I suppose there are sites it would tend to go but I don’t think it can really be known.
If they went to the Coroner they would have had some sort of PM. It couldn’t have been that easy to detect.
I do believe her being a nurse wouldn’t need to Google those two methods, she would know how fatal they would be to tiny baby’s
Yes, she doesn't seem like a straight up case of that disorder and I wouldn't have thought she had it until I read up about Beverley Allit and got to reading about it the disorder. It looks like there can be some variation in how it presents. Usually it's a parent but reading the whole Wikipedia page there are similarities like
"Diagnosis is supported when removing the child from the caregiver results in improvement of symptoms"
And
"Warning signs of the disorder include:[15]
A child who has one or more medical problems that do not respond to treatment or that follow an unusual course that is persistent, puzzling, and unexplained.
Physical or laboratory findings that are highly unusual, discrepant with patient's presentation or history, or physically or clinically impossible.
A parent who appears medically knowledgeable, fascinated with medical details and hospital gossip, appears to enjoy the hospital environment, and expresses interest in the details of other patients' problems.
A highly attentive parent who is reluctant to leave their child's side and who themselves seem to require constant attention.
A parent who appears unusually calm"
Obviously Lucy isn't the parent so this situation isn't the same but I feel there could be similarities in the motivation.
Or I could totally be reaching due to the fact her droopy eyes give me the creeps...I don't know!!
Apparently people were in disbelief when it came out about David Fuller. He was said to have charmed and manipulated staff, he was seen as a great man and someone staff went to when there was a problem.
See to me he looks like a right creep, someone I'd stay well clear from!
Christ, can you imagine?! I'd never trust anyone ever again
it's just scary that these horrible people are in some ways normal! It's easier to think of someone as completely evil as my brain can't compute that a regular human being would do these things!Great post
I can see your points, I wonder if you would be able to see those traits away from her work life?I'm off to Google him!! I don't think Lucy looks sinister btw even though I think she's guilty as sin.
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