Lucy Letby Case #12

[Faith61]

And Baby E.

Baby E is the one I dread hearing about the most. That little baby lost 25% of his blood volume and his mum walked in on him bleeding only to be shooed by LL away then told it was from his feeding tube. And LL made no reference to the blood in her notes.

Alleged to have injected him directly in to the blood stream with air. Awful, awful, awful.

It's troubling that research next cases are going to be harder to hear about....if she's guilty it would mean she became more brutal/cocky/arrogant, can't remember if it's baby H or I who " escaped" her.3 or 4 times till returned from Arrowe Park after an uneventful stay there and to end up innthe hands of LL again and ultimately nit make it...horrific

I think if he has witnesses they will be character witnesses (I don't believe character witnesses should be allowed, I think their bullshit tbh).

I don't think so either..totally irrelevant in this case !

 

[IGiveUp22]

I might have to dip out when we get to Baby E this whole case is just harrowing no matter what way you look at it. I do, at this moment, believe there is too much to think she is innocent but I am still open to the defence when they start their main arguments. It will take a lot to swing me though. I just keep thinking about those poor little babies and the parents

 

[candyland_]

I don't buy that her designated baby was more unwell than child C. The babies in room 1 are 1:1 nursed. At least child C would have been since he wasn't doing well and they were discussing transfer. LL was in a room where she was looking after at least 2 babies, if one of her designated babies was actually this unwell, why wouldn't he have been placed on 1:1 even if they couldn't move him to a higher intensity room?

They said this baby had been OK up until that night and then they started to show signs concerning them such as grunting.. That’s why they increased the observations and called the registrar, they would have needed senior opinions before their care was moved.

This rings small alarms to me because it was another baby that was deteriorating slightly out of nowhere.

 

[SFV]

I am wondering about the layout of the NICU and the 'room' ........ when my daughter was in NICU for 6 weeks, it was a huge ward probably 10 very premature babies, then they had side rooms off that ward for the babies who were incredibly ill and likely not to make it, I assumed it was more for privacy for the parents, rather than a higher level of medical support.

In the LL case, were those babies all in individual rooms or were they shared rooms?

 

[stardust1]

They said this baby had been OK up until that night and then they started to show signs concerning them such as grunting.. That’s why they increased the observations and called the registrar, they would have needed senior opinions before their care was moved.

This rings small alarms to me because it was another baby that was deteriorating slightly out of nowhere.

People say the babies were ill anyway but the thing is babies can defo deteriorate quickly and they do in the NICU’s. What is most concerning is just how many babies were not recovering from it. I think that baby must have just been your typical expected deterioration (I hope so anyway)

You are correct about needing opinions before moving the baby. The doctors from the ICU had to come round and decide where my baby went, nothing to do with the nurses x

I am wondering about the layout of the NICU and the 'room' ........ when my daughter was in NICU for 6 weeks, it was a huge ward probably 10 very premature babies, then they had side rooms off that ward for the babies who were incredibly ill and likely not to make it, I assumed it was more for privacy for the parents, rather than a higher level of medical support.

In the LL case, were those babies all in individual rooms or were they shared rooms?

I think they were shared because I read in the report the cots were too close together, making it hard for nurses to work at the side of the cots.

 

[Bakers]

I don’t think these 17 babies were her only victims, rather the ones they had enough evidence to prosecute on. I know other charges were dropped and investigations abandoned. Perhaps JB was one of these.

I don't think investigations have been abandoned if you look on the Cheshire Police website they are recruiting for a DS to join their team investigating team looking into the deaths on the neonatal ward, this job offer runs till 2025

 

[MmmB777]

I might have to dip out when we get to Baby E this whole case is just harrowing no matter what way you look at it. I do, at this moment, believe there is too much to think she is innocent but I am still open to the defence when they start their main arguments. It will take a lot to swing me though. I just keep thinking about those poor little babies and the parents

My spidey senses are telling me she refocused her attention on baby c once she knew baby had had a ‘brady’. But I do know that is total speculation on my part However, I wouldn’t be shocked at all.

 

[Daisydunn15]

They said this baby had been OK up until that night and then they started to show signs concerning them such as grunting.. That’s why they increased the observations and called the registrar, they would have needed senior opinions before their care was moved.

This rings small alarms to me because it was another baby that was deteriorating slightly out of nowhere.

I don't think we're likely to heat much about that other baby, but some deterioration in an intensive care unit is normal.
I'm not suggesting they should have moved the other baby, and I've never worked on a NICU, everywhere I've worked has been very nurse led but the nurses would absolutely be able to have increased the intensity of someone's care without a medic, I mean in terms of making them 1:1 if needed.

 

[candyland_]

I can’t shake the feeling that she has something to do with this baby deteriorating. It’s the same pattern and while the prosecution said they weren’t part of this case they still felt it was relevant to share.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

They said this baby had been OK up until that night and then they started to show signs concerning them such as grunting.. That’s why they increased the observations and called the registrar, they would have needed senior opinions before their care was moved.

This rings small alarms to me because it was another baby that was deteriorating slightly out of nowhere.

The court updates say the Senior Nurse thought the baby should have had ‘septic screening’ but it looks like the Dr disagreed.
It does indicate that LL should have been concentrating on observing this baby.

 

[OH.FFS]

Today’s coverage (01.11.22) : https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23092103.live-lucy-letby-trial-monday-november-1/

 

[struggs123]

I've missed a few days and trying to catch up. I do wonder what he character is actually like. It's been painted up to now as someone really committed to and passionate about their job who was lovely, but disobeying direction repeatedly and putting herself first ie I want this and that rather than this is what the families and babies need doesn't really suggest that to me. It sounds like perhaps (speculation of course) her relationship with work wasn't quite as it has been alluded to, but who knows.

 

[JessicaFletcher36]

Not commented on this thread before because I only recently found it and caught up. Excellent Wiki whoever is responsible.
I am a nurse and I think there is always a deep sadness in our profession when we feel one of our own could be responsible for something like this. We go in to this profession to do good, to help others. I work with and have worked with some truly amazing nurses during my career, I have learned so much from my colleagues over the years.
A couple of things that immediately strike me as odd. Firstly LL made a comment about ‘support’ during these situations at a previous hospital she worked at. Makes me wonder where she worked previously, and what happened there.
Secondly in the case of baby C, the constant interference with the family really rings alarm bells to me. In my experience in these situations a nurse is allocated to that family and all other nurses will adhere to the strictest of privacy. I would never barge in and out of a family room in these circumstances unless I was specifically asked to. Its not a free for all, these families deserve the utmost respect and privacy to spend those final moments with their loved one. I find this behaviour extremely concerning and unprofessional and not something I have ever witnessed.

 

[Milktray]

View attachment 1695595
I can’t shake the feeling that she has something to do with this baby deteriorating. It’s the same pattern and while the prosecution said they weren’t part of this case they still felt it was relevant to share.

This was exactly what I felt, when I read that. And the more I read, the more speechless I become.
*******

I know we're still on the prosecution case but the past couple of days have broke me. Its hard to keep an open mind when you read that quite frankly, she dehumanised, neglected and abused, the most innocent in society.

I don't think LL was passionate about nursing because that's an insult to all the hard working nurses and health care workers out there. By its very definition, nursing is about providing care. Killing and neglecting your patients is the opposite of that.
I think LL was more passionate about being the centre of attention.

 

[stardust1]

Not commented on this thread before because I only recently found it and caught up. Excellent Wiki whoever is responsible.
I am a nurse and I think there is always a deep sadness in our profession when we feel one of our own could be responsible for something like this. We go in to this profession to do good, to help others. I work with and have worked with some truly amazing nurses during my career, I have learned so much from my colleagues over the years.
A couple of things that immediately strike me as odd. Firstly LL made a comment about ‘support’ during these situations at a previous hospital she worked at. Makes me wonder where she worked previously, and what happened there.
Secondly in the case of baby C, the constant interference with the family really rings alarm bells to me. In my experience in these situations a nurse is allocated to that family and all other nurses will adhere to the strictest of privacy. I would never barge in and out of a family room in these circumstances unless I was specifically asked to. Its not a free for all, these families deserve the utmost respect and privacy to spend those final moments with their loved one. I find this behaviour extremely concerning and unprofessional and not something I have ever witnessed.

Great post and contribution. I think the hospital she worked at was Liverpool womens hospital x

 

[thinker]

Letby was the only member of staff present at all babies ABCD deaths and near deaths. In my mind, there is a mixture of all this in these incidents of- compelling evidence of foul play, compelling evidence of her behaving unnaturally and suspiciously both at the scene and away from it, compelling evidence these babies were doing well and on an upward trajectory before interventions from LL, compelling evidence the babies would have otherwise survived. compelling evidence of air embolism, compelling evidence of recovery from whatever was causing them to crash when away from Letby (eg not a pervasive problem). I personally feel this paints an extremely firm picture. Appreciate others won’t.

AGREED 100%. I’m new here and just want to say thank you to all for this safe place to discuss. TOFINO .. is ace!! X

Letby was the only member of staff present at all babies ABCD deaths and near deaths. In my mind, there is a mixture of all this in these incidents of- compelling evidence of foul play, compelling evidence of her behaving unnaturally and suspiciously both at the scene and away from it, compelling evidence these babies were doing well and on an upward trajectory before interventions from LL, compelling evidence the babies would have otherwise survived. compelling evidence of air embolism, compelling evidence of recovery from whatever was causing them to crash when away from Letby (eg not a pervasive problem). I personally feel this paints an extremely firm picture. Appreciate others won’t.

 

[rararala]

I don't think investigations have been abandoned if you look on the Cheshire Police website they are recruiting for a DS to join their team investigating team looking into the deaths on the neonatal ward, this job offer runs till 2025

Do you think this means that whatever the verdict for the current trial they have other deaths that potentially they think she is responsible for? I’m unclear how it works but would the conclusion of the previous investigation be where we are now I.e they investigate then charge and now trial? It just seems strange the job runs until 2025? And I guess almost unthinkable that there’s more to come

 

[Aberscot]

View attachment 1695595
I can’t shake the feeling that she has something to do with this baby deteriorating. It’s the same pattern and while the prosecution said they weren’t part of this case they still felt it was relevant to share.

I am thinking that too but I can’t get my head round would it not have been easier for her to harm this baby as he was deterioting and maybe wouldn’t have been so unexpected rather than go into a different room with other nurses present to get to baby C?
or else it would have been too obvious, I guess we will never know hope this baby survived.

 

[Windowtothewall]

I don't buy that her designated baby was more unwell than child C. The babies in room 1 are 1:1 nursed. At least child C would have been since he wasn't doing well and they were discussing transfer. LL was in a room where she was looking after at least 2 babies, if one of her designated babies was actually this unwell, why wouldn't he have been placed on 1:1 even if they couldn't move him to a higher intensity room?

LL's patient needed hourly monitoring, it's safe to assume the shift leader would have put LL on 2 babies in the same room, one that required hourly monitoring and one that required less. These notes were documented at the time by the shift leader at the time - why would anyone lie about it in the medical notes? I also note that the defence didn't challenge her on this recollection - surely we can accept that if even the defence are not challenging something, it's because it did happen?

Unless we really think even the defence are conspiring against her?

 

[riddleme89]

I missed the trial yesterday as I was busy with Halloween stuff can anybody tell me if anything was said that hasn’t already ??

thank you x