Do you know what I don't think I could handle hearing her speak at this point, gives me shivers
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I’m not sure, the prosecution mentioned a fourth medical expert for child a in the opening statement (I think it was an independent pathologist) but we’ve not heard anything from that. Prosecution also told the jury that they would hear more about police interviews later, as we only got an agreed summary yesterday. And of course defence need their turn. We’ve probably heard the bulk of it though.
Just to say this is 100% spot on. We cannot assume she had no childhood trauma just because it "appears" outwardly that she comes from a background of relative privilege.
If guilty, I can see no other explanation. I refuse to believe anyone is born evil. For me people are a product of their environment.
I’ve worked with people that have done some awful things to others, when you hear about some of their histories it gives an explanation for the way they have acted.
Sorry to hear you had a difficult childhood.
I agree, but I think we’re all born with different traits/personalities. I know (or think) my kids were.
It’s the old nature/nurture debate but I don’t necessarily think she had to have suffered any trauma.
The only thing obvious is that she may have been put on a pedestal.
Oh yeah she might not have done, it’s just I’ve seen people assume she had no trauma when we’ve heard nothing in court about her childhood. We don’t know anything so I think it’s a strange assumption to make.
There's a lot of different motives that make people do the things they do. Wayne Couzens didn't have any diagnosed personality disorder and no reason provided - they mentioned mild depression and money worries, neither of which explain why he kidnapped, grape and killed a woman one day. He's in prison for life and we still don't know what his motive was - was it sex, power, mental breakdown, psychopathy, boredom - who knows.
LL could be a sociopath of some sort - they don't all hurt animals and grow up in terrible families. It can mean just a lack of empathy. She wanted excitement, to fill a void in her life, to feel important, and a lack of empathy could mean she saw the babies as just instruments to get her this. Like those runners who knock down other runners in a bid to finish first - they're so focused on winning, they forget it's other people they're hurting. She wanted attention and excitement so badly, she forgot she was hurting babies.
LL could have disliked the parents - and thought they didn't deserve their babies. And killing the babies meant she was protecting them from what she saw as a terrible life with their parents.
LL could have had some personality disorder or delusions where she genuinely thought she was doing God's work or something like that - by killing the children, she thought she was saving them from pain or disability.
Human beings are so complex. There's not always an easy response especially for serial killers.
WC had a different motive- sex. You can see in that situation what he gained from the acts
We don't know that. grape is not about sex most of the time. It's about power and control. It could be a personality disorder. Rapists don't all kidnap and murder either.
grape does not equal sex as a motive that is.
First thread I’ve voted guilty on
He could have just paid for a prostitute. Even one who would be willing, for money, to indulge his, possible, stranger peccadilloes.
My point is there is a tangible gain from the act, with kidnap and murder (secondary acts) a potential way to reduce being caught. Power and control can still be a sexual motive too, especially when associated with sexual acts.
Does anyone get a feeling of Doctors vs Nurses in this trial
What did he gain? There are straight men who grape other men - not because they enjoy the sex but because it's intimidation or punishment (happens as part of gang initiations sometimes).
And if we use your logic, we can see what LL gained - a lot of attention, more interesting cases than the boring ones she complained about and being able to show her parents how important her job was.
I think I read he used prostitutes but had a load of werid urges and then money worries so couldn’t pay for them anymore.
Don’t they say serial killers have uncontrollable urges to kill I sometime wonder if the holiday with her parents was because she realised she couldn’t control herself and needed to be away.
Sexual gratification
Which for me isn’t enough of a motive, unless there is a disorder of the mind.
Whst a strange take. Sex isn’t the only valid motive for crime. People do it for all sorts of reasons and often not even all that extreme. She could literally just be devoid of empathy and was bored.
Anyone who murders has a disorder of the mind - no matter their motive.
Were you in the car with him to know if he felt sexual gratification? Or do you just assume a man who kidnaps a woman and rapes her does so for sexual gratification? That's the point - grape does not equal sexual gratification just because it's a sexual act. I mean you realise there's people who like strangling their victims because THAT gives them sexual satisfaction. So even if they don't grape them, the motivation might be sexual.
Do you know if maybe LL did get aroused by killing people - because the power was intoxicating and gave her a rush? Do you know what sort of sex life she had?
We don't know anything about her.
Wanted to add (but this is derailing- apologies) that his motive was also not getting caught. I think that was in the summing up at his sentencing, that he’d realised she could go on to identify him if he let her go after raping her and so to him he ‘had’ to murder her. Utterly vile
I do believe people can be born evil- I obviously don't believe that babies are evil, just that the potential will have always been there. There are many reasons how traumas and experiences alter us. It's not a one fits all scenario. I know people in my line of work who have suffered horrendous trauma who you'd excuse for bad behaviours, but they are really really good decent people. Also have came across people with wonderful childhoods and adult experiences who are what I would deem as bad. Satan did masquerade himself as an angel of light.
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