Lucy Letby Case #11

[tinkertailorsoldierspy]

It's very interesting how many people she's telling 'the new girl was looking after him' and 'it happened in the new girls care'. It sounds like she's totally passing the blame and insinuating fault with the 'new girl'.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Look, I 100% understand that it's hard for good people to grasp that there are bad people in this world, evil even.

But speaking as a child who was abused for years, who showed very obvious symptoms of abuse and who watched as the adults around me turned a blind eye to that abuse simply because they could not face the fact that someone they knew, spoke with, worked with, were friends with could be so evil.

It's just not helpful to have that viewpoint. There is more to being "a good person" then just pretending evil doesn't exist, you cannot turn a blind eye because you do not want to face the reality of it. By doing so you are leaving victims to the wolves.

So far I believe Lucy is guilty, I believe the expert's, I believe the parents, I believe the Dr's. and ultimately I cannot get away from the numbers. I said it before, she's either the worlds unluckiest woman or she did this.

 

[Deeznutslol]

God this is a headfuck case, she looks so ... kind.
She has said and done questionable things and even if with the knowledge we have it seems suspicious, yet I'm still entirely open to the fact she's just awkward.
You know those people who are susceptible to other people's little quirks or phrases, she could be texting trying to be like the older colleagues she's friends with have spoken to her, but because she's not older it seems patronising, as where an older lady would seem motherly saying "you did so so well".

I have been thinking about other women who have shocked people, Vanessa George, nursery nurse who abused babies in her care, there's a woman from St Helens who was abusing children in the worst possible ways etc, looks are really fucking deceiving, I know that, but she doesn't give me vibes of anything.

I'm still thinking she's guilty, it just wrecks my head, normal family, social, career driven, had a nice place to live, nothing is giving me "defo a psycho" vibe and it's actually pissing me right off.

She looks painfully normal and boring to me tbh. Type of person who would drive a fiat 500, shop in peacocks and find shows The Big Bang Theory and Friends funny. Basically not the type of nut job who gets their kicks out of killing babies.
If she goes down for this then she’s the absolute poster girl for ‘looks can be deceiving’

 

[Stiltoncheese]

I've put unsure again. I think prosecution are starting to paint a picture which could sway towards guilty, but that is exactly what they are there to do. I want to hear more evidence from both sides or something that is really, really compelling and would be hard to to defend before I decide. Even though the 2 medical experts were very compelling, I still feel the defence will bring their own experts to dispute it or undermine it and introduce doubt, so I'll reserve judgement until then.

I have to say, I am finding all the discussion and debate and differing view points really interesting though, and can totally see how/why people are being swayed to one side or the other. I'm finding myself agreeing and liking a lot of comments from both sides of the fence and it's giving me plenty to think about and mull overwhilst I get things clear in my own mind, so thanks to everyone who is contributing. Such a horrible case but it's good to have people to (respectfully) discuss it and process it with

 

[xoxo GG]

It's interesting that the fact they refused to use the camera to take pictures is skimmed over, but instead took pictures on their phone.

It's no different to them saying they don't want hand prints at that moment in time - I can totally understand that in grief you might just want to escape and run away from the situation, and having a nurse to 'persuade' you is useful because if the chance passes, you'd never get that back again. I read it as something that must happen often.

Spoiler: TW - talk of baby loss

When our daughter died I was a little bit ‘off’ I suppose about them using their camera to take pictures of her. I was worried they might lose them, delete them, withhold them from us. So we just took our own pictures, in that time it offered me reassurance that our few memories wouldn’t be in the hands of others. It’s daft looking back but I can always put myself into the rationale of a recently bereaved parent.

 

[Puddinpie]

Thank you, that’s a really insightful post. It confirms a lot of my thoughts around how units operate etc, and the language around babies being stable etc.
Hope all is well with your wee one now.

Sadly, after poor care and it being AUGUST, new Drs on the unit and consultants not staying overnight she suffered 2 big arrests at 3 weeks of age- left with severe brain damage- with 60% brain missing, she lived until she was 9yrs and 1 day old and passed away in my arms. She was beautiful and happy but very disabled for her 9 yrs of life. I blame the blaze attitude of nurses and inexperienced drs and lazy consultants who were called FOUR times at home overnight, before they came in to try and intubate as junior drs tried and failed... XX

 

[Tofino]

Info for wiki users…

I’ve asked for a 3rd wiki page as page 1 is full again. I want to keep the section for child c on the first page as it’s the current child evidence is being presented for, but page 2 hasn’t got enough space for section child a and b. So I can’t update the last two days at the moment. My thinking is to have page 2 as evidence heard (child a and b at the moment) and page 3 as evidence to come. (Child d onwards).

I’m not fishing for thank yous, I just want to say I’m so pleased people are using it and finding what they need. That was always the hope with so much information coming out of court, that you can go back and find what you are specifically looking for relatively easily.

 

[candyland_]

I’m just thinking out loud here to process this one so feel free to ignore me.

Lucy Letby picked up this extra shift to get back into it after Baby A and B.

She was texting saying how much she wanted to be in Room 1 but she wasn’t placed there. Further texts stopped shortly before the baby collapsed.

She repeatedly ignored her senior and left her designated baby do do what..!?

She agreed in the police interview that she was the on person in the room during the collapse and it was said that one of the first things she did after the shift was to search for Baby Cs parents.

A nurse that the parents believe to be LL told them they had said their goodbye..

She made sure multiple people knew it was nurse Ellis that was caring for that baby.

It just all stacks up too much when you add it together.

 

[Puddinpie]

First time writer, not here for arguments tho

I'm a paeds nurse, 11 years on a paeds ICU, also had an 800g baby in neonatal intensive care for 3 months.

I have never known a nurse use a guedel airway, always drs.

I am still sort of in the not guilty camp, I think maybe it's because
1) I truly don't want to believe that she / LL from what we see in her pics and what we've heard from neighbours and friends, could do this.
2) The NHS is brilliant, but also a fuck up; no staff, nasty staff, bullying, lack of managerial support etc to name a few. So not that it's a "scapegoat" situation but more of a blame / point the finger situation.
3) I don't think the prosecution has been all that compelling, likewise defense isn't great either and I think we're all waiting for some big reveal from either side, but I don't really think we'll get it.
4) Neonatal units are fantastic from one point of view but weird/unpleasant from another. Snotty staff, staff 'down playing' incidents / situations.
5) Brady's do happens a lot, so do low saturations, and the nurses were REALLY SLOW to jump on these, to the point I said "if I let baby's get this low on ICU, I'd be sacked" which I would. Everything that goes wrong with prems is put down to "well there prem, this is what they do" I don't think this is just the unit I was on either.

Neonatal "journeys" are renowned for being referred to as merry go round / up n downs constantly. One min your babies doing great, 20 mins later they e got a rip roaring infection, they recover, a day later their being ventilated, it's really a weird rude and KNOWN for this

Insulin- don't know / can't remember the full info around the 2 attacks, but if put into TPN then can see why didn't work/kill (sorry, for want of better scenario). If put directly in line and baby WAS DUE/ REQUIRING insulin, it could have been a 10 times error - again, a fuck up, 2 nurses check doses, but these errors DO happen in kids, although in prem's nearly all meds given are so tiny - usually 0.1-0.5ml syringes of any drug, so if u find yourself drawing up a syringe of 1ml or more you KNOW it's wrong...
If the baby didn't st all require insulin but did end up having bloods/toxicology that PROVED there was insulin then yep, high chance of attempted murder or again, a massive fuck up and 2 nurses signed for and gave the wrong drug.... Again, not an impossibility....

I think I always like to see the good in people and also I hate the fact that no one ever really knows if someone's guilty or what really happened unless someone admits it or its on video etc.

So I am on fence / NG, but prob more because I just can't see how, why she or anyone would do this and potentially for 1 year out if the blue, or particularly good enough evidence yet that isn't circumstantial.

Hope all this makes sense and doesn't get any nasty replies X

 

[IGiveUp22]

One thing that strikes me with Sophie Ellis is that she has the most to gain (from a clear consciencepoint of view) from LL being responsible for the death of baby C.

I also find the reaction to her being questioned in court as interesting. Comments of poor young girl, she has held her own etc. She’s not the potentially innocent person that was interviewed, under suspicion of murder, by the police and now is in court facing those same charges.

But this nurse wasn’t present at all the babies deaths, wasn’t searching the families months/years after on Facebook, wasn’t purposely putting herself in rooms & with babies she shouldn’t have been with & wasn’t the last person to be around all the babies before they crashed.
She was a newly qualified nurse who isn’t accused of any negligence so why wouldn’t people think “poor girl”. I don’t really understand your point here.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I noticed baby C has been referred to twice as fiesty now. Makes me even more sad. Little tiny headstrong baby who wanted to live .

 

[jackolantern]

@Walnutss mate ffs if you are referring to me calling you nut it’s because YOUR NAME IS WALNUTS, I thought that was obvious I was making a lighthearted joke 🫣

 

[Windowtothewall]

I'm now trying to marry up LL's texts with MT's testimony about the parents - that she put in her medical notes.

• LL's texts - "Parents sat with [Child C] in the family room...persuaded them to have hand and footprints but they just wanted to go home."

• MT's medical notes at the time -

"Parents stated with [Child C], they took him round to quiet room...registrar went round to quiet room, as mum concerned he is still gasping and has pulse. Doctor explained that it is a brainstem response following resuscitation, further discussion with parents, parents happy for [Child C] to have IV morphine for comfort.

"Maternal and paternal grandparents present, discussed with parents what they would like to do, and offered that we can do it at their pace when they are ready."

The note concludes that a camera was left with the parents if they wished to take photos of Child C. They declined, and had taken some photos on their phone. Child C's hand and footprints were made for the parents.

It's a minor thing but it now bothers me how she phrased what really happened with the parents. Because she made it seem like they didn't care about the hand and footprints and just wanted to go home instead. But actually a lot more happened i.e they did get the hand and footprints and it was offered to them they could go home and everything would be done at their place. It's minor in the grand scheme of things but it feels like she painted the parents' reaction more negatively than it was. Almost like she thought their very normal reaction needed to sound more weird than it was.

And I didn't pay much attention to her messages earlier as couldn't see relevance. But now it's making me feel like she was disappointed they went home and she couldn't be a witness to the drama/tragedy. And it ties in (for me anyway), why she searched them immediately after shift ended.

Like, their child has just died, they have never posted anything about her patient on FB you could see (as baby was new born) - what was she hoping to see on their FB so soon..?

If she hadn't searched for them immediately after shift, I'd probably not attach so much importance but the entire sequence of events feels off.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Will defence witnesses get the same treatment from people here when questioned by the prosecution I wonder


Not at all, do you know Lucy Letby? Have you commented on her state of mind?

I feel like you really aren't making the points you think you are.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Jesus, I wonder how many trials the jury argue over the verdict at the end.

We argued at ours, resulting in one juror walking out at one point although she did return but stormed out after our final moment in court. We didn’t reach a verdict and the CPS didn’t push for a retrial.

Spoiler: jury duty waffle

We couldn’t reach a verdict after 3 days of deliberations as some of the jury thought the good looking guy on trial couldn’t possibly be guilty of the rape on the girl he was accused of. Especially because she admitted being drunk. Even though he literally said “I pushed her to the floor, ripped her tights, entered and waited for her to object. She didn’t so I carried on”. We heard days of evidence of the impact it had on her. But a few of the jury blamed her. I still think about the victim today and how it must have affected her to go through that and then feel like she wasn’t believed because she was. You get such a broad mix of people on a jury and everyone reaches different conclusions even though you’re all hearing the same thing. I imagine there will already be people on the LL jury with a strong opinion both ways

 

[friedeggontoast]

It’s a big fat GUILTY with a capital G for me

 

[Parsnipface]

My friends darling little girl was really early and she had other kids at home with nobody to care for them, she literally had to push out her super preemie and do the school run, (she lives in Scotland so I couldn't help) anyway her baby was in a fish tank, with the lights to keep her warm and the breathing apparatus, when she went to visit little one during school hours, the nurses were lovely to her and she felt little lassie had loads of mums, when my friends fella got back home from work, (he was working away) and my pal got her first time to stay with her baby, the nurses made her a bedroom with extra pillows, they even made up a mini hamper for her, and stuck a tv in her room, so it was like a hotel rest for her and anyway, it was fucking lovely.
They showed her kindness beyond their jobs at her most vulnerable and would always call her of an evening to say baby was fine when she was at home.
Baby flourished and 3 weeks later at home on the tit like a champ.
Sorry for derail but its been keeping me up thinking about how that someone who's interests aren't the best for the babies, their aim ISN'T for these babas to flourish, is terrifying and that's why I feel that I don't want LL to be guilty.
Yet every day I'm feeling less likely there's hope of innocence.
If LL isn't guilty then this is probably one of the weirdest things that I've ever followed, crime wise.

Also sorry she's been mentioned so much but Beverly Alitt, right, she was fucking tapped from childhood, she was a compulsive liar etc, Lucy to me seems completely different up. Can't imagine her shitting in the microwave etc. Lucy seems like someone you'd think "shit" if you were stuck having to talk to her again, Beverly seems like you'd want to drive into the sea if you were stuck sharing a barrel of hobnobs and brew with.
LL a bit weird. BA absolute bellend.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Let’s hold hands and sing
Right now there is ONE person in this world that knows the truth everyone has the right to have their views and opinions, but please be respectful.

 

[MmmB777]

I think she looks a cunt . Especially in her Christmas jumper. That is all x

 

[friedeggontoast]

If this was a case of one baby dying in suspicious circumstances, I might not be so sure she’s guilty. But there is such a strong pattern already emerging and we’ve only got to Baby C