Lucy Letby Case #10

[iLoveNectarines]

What is the apprent cause of baby Cs death?

 

[stickytoffeepud]

Can anyone explain how air in the system would kill. I can’t work our biologically what it would do.

 

[Notworthy]

Con

Mmm, to me it is because baby A for example only had CPAP (low continuous pressure) by nasal prongs so was basically breathing independently but with just a bit of continuous pressure to help inflate his lungs slightly, while these babies were not breathing themselves, had an et tube down their throat and their lungs were being mechanically ventilated alternating between a very high pressure and deflation.
If you think of the lungs like balloons, Baby A’s were a bit deflated but a bit of continuous pressure (CPAP) was keeping them slightly inflated so he was doing the rest of the work of breathing (inhaling and exhaling) by himself.
The babies in the studies lungs were deflated but they couldn’t breath, inflate, them by themselves so the ventilator was doing all the work, inflating the lungs to a very high pressure and deflating them (or allowing them to deflate) then continuing the cycle.
Baby A’s breathing, and lungs, were in a whole lot better condition than these babies.
The prosecution contend that the air embolism in Baby A came from the IV line and not the lungs,

I went down a rabbit hole last night and definitely saw an article regarding the risk with CPAP and nasal prongs. I'll have a look for it

Vascular air embolism: A rare complication of nasal CPAP - WONG - 1997 - Journal of Paediatrics and Child Health - Wiley Online Library

 

[EllsBellsWells]

Fair point about sub judice. I know Tattle doesn't necessarily fall under the UK jurisdiction for this sort of thing. But since you've created the Wiki, I'd be careful about not adding anything non trial related as it could be held as contempt of court. Wouldn't risk it if I were you!

But with this in mind then it’s probably better to rename the title? As it’s not really accurate.

 

[bluevanilla27]

Timings wise I’m still confused, it seems we’ve not had much clear information on that from the press. It’s hard to know what the timings really were!

That would give a lot of information needed!

 

[candyland_]

The defence aren't going to have access to texts between other members of staff though, are they, only the ones that include Lucy.

I didn’t suggest that they should.

 

[BirkenheadTranny]

Hi guys. Just come across this thread so I'm going to go back and read from the beginning. Just a quick hello from me and I hope you're all managing OK with hearing the details from this case as I expect it has been pretty soul destroying

Just to jump back in, sorry. Am I right in saying threads 1-3 are missing? They seem to start from thread 4 for some reason

 

[slingo16]

Yes it was. The landlord was accused and splashed all over the news.

Yes I haven’t looked into that case in too much detail I just remember, Christmas Day and it ruined Jeffries life being accused. And I’m not sure about the confession regarding the killer. Did he have multiple victims or was it just Joanna?

 

[Alzzah]

She says in the messages she wants to be in room 1 to get over the trauma.
She then says she has been into room 1 to 'do a couple of meds'

That wasn't good enough for her. She wanted to be with the really sick babies.
Let's not forget, all the babies in neonates are poorly and require some support in one way or another.
Why so persistent on the EXTREMELY vulnerable??
Makes no sense

The prosecution are saying the motive is to under the babies. There could literally be a ton of other reasons, not all of them rational! If she was actually going through trauma at the time the likelihood of her being rational is reduced.

From a career perspective most of us that work aim to do a role that stimulates us in some way. It is probably the reason many doctors and nurses specialise in the areas they do. Some will prefer ‘busy’ specialties, while others will prefer the more mundane.

 

[Daisydunn15]

We’re talking about a band 6 nurse who was given responsibility for student nurses. Should she really have needed an air embolism explained to her!? If so she shouldn’t have been in that job

Where did it say that she was band 6?

 

[Corkgal1997]

I don’t understand this. If she’s desperate for an ill child why is she ignoring the deteriorating one she’s supposed to be looking after?

I'm afraid today has really changed things for me. LL has a selective memory to say the least….

I wonder what her motive was, if it's attention and glory, she has a deteriorating child to look after and get better, why wasn’t that enough for her? If the baby was deteriorating wouldn’t it have been easier to do something to that baby than pick another, unless Room 1 held some significance or the baby's family.

I want to know who the nurse was who said to Child A's parents that they’d said their goodbyes etc, but I have a feeling I know who. And I also picked up on events she witnessed somewhere else. It think those events may give us plenty of information.

What do you mean by ur last paragraph?

 

[slingo16]

Mmm, to me it is because baby A for example only had CPAP (low continuous pressure) by nasal prongs so was basically breathing independently but with just a bit of continuous pressure to help inflate his lungs slightly, while these babies were not breathing themselves, had an et tube down their throat and their lungs were being mechanically ventilated alternating between a very high pressure and deflation.
If you think of the lungs like balloons, Baby A’s were a bit deflated but a bit of continuous pressure (CPAP) was keeping them slightly inflated so he was doing the rest of the work of breathing (inhaling and exhaling) by himself.
The babies in the studies lungs were deflated but they couldn’t breath, inflate, them by themselves so the ventilator was doing all the work, inflating the lungs to a very high pressure and deflating them (or allowing them to deflate) then continuing the cycle.
Baby A’s breathing, and lungs, were in a whole lot better condition than these babies.
The prosecution contend that the air embolism in Baby A came from the IV line and not the lungs,

Oh yep that’s the part about that says many of the babies would have been receiving “100% oxygen” I take it that means the machine is doing 100% of the work. Does it say how many times it happened without this being the case?

 

[slingo16]

it’s a size of page thing, can take about 150kb. I got told by Yel when I first filled up the page it was around 27,000 words. I don’t know if links take up more bytes than words.

Page 1 is currently 147k
Page 2 is 94k

Any luck? What type of file is a wiki?

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Female serial killers often kill children/babies.

I wanted to make a funny remark about Joanna Dennehy but that's true and it makes me sad

 

[Milktray]

I believe the unit was downgraded so they wouldn't have been caring for these babies

Would the machinery still have been used though - either by a downgraded unit or within another hospital?

 

[Eirawen]

I’m sure one poster on here had a theory that Child A could have been accidental but for some twisted reason set LL off on a path of terror towards the other babies .

THat is horrifying

 

[Weeder]

It doesn’t say only one person tried does it? Just that it took 5 attempts

True. I. I'm assuming.

 

[EllsBellsWells]

When this was asked before about adding links to the reports in the wiki I said I was happy to discuss (although nobody replied ) but I personally felt that the wiki should be kept to just anything coming out of the trial and at the moment these reports have not been brought up in the trial. I’m concerned about the wiki becoming speculation/biased if we start adding stuff that hasn’t come directly from trial reporting.

Also the wiki is HUGE already without adding stuff not from the trial too.

Oh sorry hadn’t seen this! The wiki is enormous already you’re right- just wondering if we can link to some reports/articles that might be relevant to the buildup to the case.

 

[struggs123]

I suppose the relevance of a hospital in a bad state is that it’s looking like it allowed a serial killer to go unnoticed for a very long time. Safeguarding was compromised by failures at the hospital.

Yeah, I don't think it obviously excuses anything at all of it is proven she did it but hopefully lessons are learnt and applied across the nhs.

 

[Windowtothewall]

yeah exactly! The ‘I killed them on purpose’ Could easily link to the feelings of others. What do other people think/feel? How did they react etc. I’m not saying 100% that the note is a reflection but at first glance I agree with the OP and reflection did spring to mind.

What would the description of what happened be as per reflection though? Surely "I killed them on purpose" would be the thing that happened? Because nothing else describes the situation from all the words on there.

yeah exactly! The ‘I killed them on purpose’ Could easily link to the feelings of others. What do other people think/feel? How did they react etc. I’m not saying 100% that the note is a reflection but at first glance I agree with the OP and reflection did spring to mind.

To me reflection is about a particular situation as it's a common technique we use in my industry too. But it's always in relation to a specific incident or situation and all those points are related to a specific incident.