Lucy Letby Case #10

[Milktray]

To be honest, although I think she's guilty, I do like reading why people believe she's innocent, because it provides another perspective. Things that maybe I've not thought of in my own mind. I know we're not on jury but it would be a very boring discussion if we all thought the same!
We're not Facebook!

 

[SwizzleMalarkey]

To add to her attention seeking she ‘needed time off to spend with mum and dad’ after the first 3/possibly 4 collapses. I bet she had them wrapping her up in cotton wool and doting on her too.

Dr Harkness said he had to have time off because of his mental health after what happened to Child A and nobody said he was attention seeking. She may well be attention seeking and/or a murderer, but some of the behaviours she exhibited would be perfectly normal if she were innocent. Everything looks bad if you look at it through a lens of her being guilty.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

‘She said she did not recall how upset Child A and B's parents were at the time.’

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heartbreaking.
"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."


I’m sorry but I think you’d recall this! Hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. Physically typed that the dad was on the floor crying. But three years later you have no memory, I don’t know how significant this is in terms of the case as a whole but it stood out to me and I say bullshit !!

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I attended a young child’s funeral and I certainly won’t forget the mother’s howling. Not crying, but howls of anguish.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

I think the reporting on the Chester Standard today has been really poor. Missing massive details I’ve since found out from other news/articles.
Like above the clip from an article that the nurse who said that Child C would die, I didn’t get at the time the significance in the live reporting, until reading there that mum clearly thinks it was LL that confirmed that to her.
Also on the standard it mentioned the cold comment from the nurse when they were spending their final moments with him. I presumed it might be LL but wasn’t clarified just that a nurse had said it and they were shocked. News clarified on tv that parents believe that was LL too. Standard are missing out lots of little details like this that clarify points.

Someone above also said that the note about not being good enough to care for them makes sense now and I find that interesting. From texts today she obviously felt keen to get in the room with the sickest babies - so almost as in, I killed them on purpose if they don’t think I’m good enough to look after them then..

 

[Tofino]

It Is exactly what the prosecutor should be doing, presenting evidence that points towards a guilty verdict. Im just stating that the evidence from yesterday isn’t as damming as it appears.

With regards to Dr Dewi, I’m by no means suggesting he’s fabricating evidence. If when contacted be the police or the national crime agency he can only find a natural cause of death, saying otherwise would discredit him. However, he is looking For hypothetical, non-natural causes of death and then lists possibilities as a result. It is his OPINION (although massively more qualified than me) that the deaths were not natural, I’m hopeful we will here from other experts who may have a different opinion.

It’s also the opinion of two medical experts we’ve already heard from and we are expecting to hear from two more from what they said in opening.

I must admit I find it interesting you are hopeful there is another expert with a different opinion. Why do you want that? It would be like saying 5 experts think this person was shot but I’m hoping another expert comes along and says it was a heart attack.

To hope there is someone with an alternative view to challenge all the experts that are in agreement makes it sound like you have a bias towards Lucy being found not guilty.

If the defence do have their own expert that casts doubt then fair enough, but if they don’t then I think it makes the cause of death pretty conclusive. Not biased.

 

[PatienceImpatient]

Not sure if it was yourself or another neonatal nurse on the last thread who said she’d expect what happened to Baby A to happen exactly as it did due to the circumstances of birth and the lack of fluids for at least four hours.

That has really stuck with me.

Nothing I’ve seen so far is a definite guilty from me, too much doubt surrounding each case.

Not knocking neonatal nurses by any means, they are (LL excluded IMO) angels and absolute experts in their fields.

However, I am inclined to believe the consultant paediatricians/neonatologists who testified today that Child A's death was an air embolism and couldn't have been caused by anything else, lack of fluids included.

Also important to note Dr Evans explained today that he came to that conclusion, independently, before it was a criminal investigation and long before LL was arrested. It wasn't applied retrospectively when he knew someone was being charged with murder.

 

[MmmB777]

I think the text about the parents of child C (I think) is one that makes me go I think that’s extremely inappropriate to be talking about that to a colleague at the least. Say what you want about how you’re feeling but step too far with that for me

I think it is because she knows she basically encouraged them to bugger off when they were cuddling their baby as it died. She’s trying to leave a paper trail that counteracts that. The parents specifically have mentioned they felt hurried along by a nurse matching her description and here she is saying they wanted to go.
I don’tonly think her texts are attention seeking, she says deliberate things that look very unnatural.

 

[candyland_]

She constantly wants people to pander to her and check up on how she’s doing etc.

I think she picked up an extra shift expecting everyone to rally around her but they didn’t so she started seeking for attention in those texts and when she didn’t get it she attacked Baby C.

 

[jhm9rhs]

I have ADHD, it wasn't diagnosed until I was 40 and I thought I had depression, anxiety, a host of personality disorders before I found out. I held down a high paying, high flying job in the health service and to outsiders I would have appeared normal, with a normal social life etc, if a little overly 'type A'. It was all a mask and until my diagnosis my inner and home life was chaotic and erratic, and my thought processes were irrational. Now I didn't murder anyone, my point is simply that presenting normally doesn't mean there aren't deep rooted issues. I could see myself having easily caused immense issues at work and hiding them. I think my thought patterns were so dysfunctional that in that case (obviously not murder) I would have benefited from psychiatric help and I hope if she is guilty she receives this as well as obviously life imprisonment. Edit: I am of course not suggesting ADHD leads to murder, or that Lucy has it!

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Yeah she definitely comes across as enjoying the drama/sympathy of being the person to share the news.Am I i right that she wasn't even designated to baby C?

yep you Are “Letby added, in the message to her mum: "He only weighted 800g...new girl was looking after him, she is devastated."

However, we know from previous messages she spent the shift prior to baby C’s collapse trying to get into room 1. Ignoring her shift leader who had to reinforce where she was supposSed to be. Text also revealed she was giving meds in room 1, when she wasn’t supposed to (all to make HER feel better, because SHE feels SHE needs to be in there). Then we hear from interview one she had nothing to do with child C according to her. Then in interview 2 she agreed she was the only one in the room for child Cs collapse. Without those messages the police wouldnt have necessarily known how she was trying to get into room 1, that is why they are important! X

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

This will obviously be gone over in more detail in the next few days! But let’s remind our selves of letby’s police interview for child C.

Police interview (child c)


In police interview, Letby denied she had anything to do with Child C, other than with the resuscitation.

She could not remember why she had ended up in nursery 1. …….***** Can’t remember why But spent her shift trying to get back in room one *****

In a second interview, asked about texts which had been found on her phone placing her in that room, Letby said that she might have been sending them from the nurses’ station and then gone into room 1 “to do something else”.

She then agreed that she had been the only person in the room when Child C had collapsed.


Today - text message “Letby responds: "Yeah, I have done a couple of meds in 1.”- but in her interview denied she had anything to do with the child in room one

 

[jackolantern]

I agree and it is disgusting that if she has murdered them that because of their lack of notes on him it potentially weakens the case. I really hope learning is taken from this not just at COCH but throughout the health service.

100% I think despite all our spats lol, one thing we can all agree on is regardless of whether she is guilty or not, the whole ward was a bloody shambles and there's alot more accountability needed here than just at her feet.

 

[OH.FFS]

I thinks she’s guilty. There are just too many coincidences for me,

 

[WonderShade18]

I fully support our doctors in the NHS, and they are only human so mistakes do happen. However, I cannot discredit in any way, two doctors looking at this from a solely professional point of view and not being directly involved who have the exact same overview of circumstances. Tough day today, but it definitely has made things clearer for me as to what happened in terms of baby A and B.

 

[wideningperspective]

Who’s not guilty in the poll can I ask?

I have always believed she was innocent, but I hold my hands up. I had a realisation recently that actually I myself may have confirmation bias. My experience in working in such toxic environments with poor leadership, a bullying and blame culture and power struggle amongst the varying professions had constricted my view. I felt sorrow for this alleged murderer. I am now unsure. Earlier swaying towards guilty but swiftly back again as the evidence to date is not for me adequate to say Guilty!

 

[friedeggontoast]

I completely agree, we need to hear all evidence and expert witnesses.

However I don’t understand the trying to discredit the expert witnesses. Dr Evans wasn’t hired by the prosecution, he was hired by the NCA to decipher what happened to these babies. He didn’t know who LL was or the case itself. Of course the prosecution have chosen him because he clearly states that the deaths were suspicious, but that doesn’t negate the fact he is a highly trained professional with years experience as an expert witness, who came to that unbiased conclusion that these babies were killed.

 

[Tofino]

I think it’s also important to point out his response here as I know confirmation bias has been discussed. It’s not the case that every case the police give him he finds a cause that fits a crime.


He adds that in past cases, he has been brought in by police and the conclusion was accidental, so the case was closed with no further police involvement.

He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.

"I was the easiest physician and the most difficult. I was a blank sheet of paper. I had no idea and relied entirely on the evidence I could see from the clinical notes and applying my clinical experience and forming an opinion to the cause."

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Sorry, I am biased. Some people’s comments have been thought provoking and sewed a bit of doubt. Others have tried to sew doubt but it’s not worked for me. Some I agree with only half of what they say. Some may think they’re unbiased but they don’t sound like that to me.
All different opinions. What’s wrong with that?
I’m firmly in one camp. If that makes me dumb. I’m dumb.
I’m not on the Jury. I’m just a person on the internet with an opinion.

 

[candyland_]

All I can say today is that I hope those babies are resting in peace and their families are being supported.