Karen Read Case

[avabella]

I have no idea how long it takes for bruises to come out - his hand was bruised. Was it his hand that took the force from and smashed the taillight? Or maybe she clipped his knee like she said and he span round and fell and hit his head on the hydrant?

First aid rules of an injury - apply cold or ice to minimise bruising.

He was outside, in a snow blizzard with a rapidly falling temperature. I’m gonna say pretty reasonable that bruises wouldn’t necessarily show as much as they would on a warm body.

 

[NarcRage]

First aid rules of an injury - apply cold or ice to minimise bruising.

He was outside, in a snow blizzard with a rapidly falling temperature. I’m gonna say pretty reasonable that bruises wouldn’t necessarily show as much as they would on a warm body.

When I have been seriously injured the bruising has taken days to develop...I'm guessing no circulation because you're dead may affect it too.

Where are the bruises from a fight? His panda eyes have been explained as a result of the massive head trauma to the back of his head. Where's his broken jaw/nose if he was sucker punched by the Brians?

 

[evoway13]

I’ve seen the photos of Liam Payne after his fall …he fractured his skull - but, his eyes remained as they were. No raccoon eyes

 

[Alittlebitofme]

First aid rules of an injury - apply cold or ice to minimise bruising.

He was outside, in a snow blizzard with a rapidly falling temperature. I’m gonna say pretty reasonable that bruises wouldn’t necessarily show as much as they would on a warm body.

If he was outside the whole time dead on the lawn how could no one have seen him when they were leaving?

 

[NarcRage]

If he was outside the whole time dead on the lawn how could no one have seen him when they were leaving?

Quite easily. If he's there in the dark and not moving and they have no reason to look over there. Just because someone didn't see him doesn't mean he wasn't there.

You would see him if you expect to see him lying there. Which is exactly what happened the next morning when two people who didn't know he was there didn't spot him and the one person who knew spotted him before the car even stopped.

 

[avabella]

I’ve seen the photos of Liam Payne after his fall …he fractured his skull - but, his eyes remained as they were. No raccoon eyes

Those photos were immediate photos on the deck. As far as I know there haven't been any further photos released?

 

[avabella]

Interesting take away from the video clips played. Karen is describing how she arrived at John's house at 12.41am and the Ring camera picks up her car sensors going 'ding, ding, ding, ding ding' because she's getting close to the garage.

Why was her car sensors not going mad at 5am-ish when she left John's house and brushed against his car? Did she just decide to ignore the sensors? Or did she need a reason that her tail light was 'broken'?

Also - 'we think he died 12.30-12.35 that morning' - who is we? Time of death wasn't given until they'd gotten him to the hospital and warmed him up, then declared him dead. How would she know the 12.30-12.35 timescale?

And if the whole premise of your defence is that he was taken into the house and beaten up, and left for dead at some point, then it *couldn't* be 12.30-12.35am.

Deary me.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Quite easily. If he's there in the dark and not moving and they have no reason to look over there. Just because someone didn't see him doesn't mean he wasn't there.

You would see him if you expect to see him lying there. Which is exactly what happened the next morning when two people who didn't know he was there didn't spot him and the one person who knew spotted him before the car even stopped.

Honestly that’s ridiculous. Of all the people who left the house that night at least one person would have seen him. He was wearing dark clothes lying out in a dusting of snow, he was over 6 foot and over 200 pounds. You wouldn’t even need to be looking for it to catch your eye.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Interesting take away from the video clips played. Karen is describing how she arrived at John's house at 12.41am and the Ring camera picks up her car sensors going 'ding, ding, ding, ding ding' because she's getting close to the garage.

Why was her car sensors not going mad at 5am-ish when she left John's house and brushed against his car? Did she just decide to ignore the sensors? Or did she need a reason that her tail light was 'broken'?

Also - 'we think he died 12.30-12.35 that morning' - who is we? Time of death wasn't given until they'd gotten him to the hospital and warmed him up, then declared him dead. How would she know the 12.30-12.35 timescale?

And if the whole premise of your defence is that he was taken into the house and beaten up, and left for dead at some point, then it *couldn't* be 12.30-12.35am.

Deary me.

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

 

[NarcRage]

How does Karen get across to the jury her claim that she saw John go across the threshold into the house?

 

[NarcRage]

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

Did he have a broken eye socket? Broken jaw? Broken nose? No.

 

[NarcRage]

Honestly that’s ridiculous. Of all the people who left the house that night at least one person would have seen him. He was wearing dark clothes lying out in a dusting of snow, he was over 6 foot and over 200 pounds. You wouldn’t even need to be looking for it to catch your eye.

It really isn't. We came back from holiday late one night and only the following morning noticed that our neighbours had cut down an enormous tree in their front garden and had had the whole thing re landscaped. Didn't notice it at all the night we arrived home. In the dark when you're concentrating on doing what you're doing you don't notice stuff.

 

[NarcRage]

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

But his phone didn't move then?
He had his phone on him because it recorded the stairs....

 

[avabella]

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

He wasn’t put on the lawn until 3.30? Where does that fit in the timeline?
If that’s the case, why was Jen supposedly googling how long to die in the cold at 2.27? Did she go home, get cosied in bed, then google it and let the Brian’s know to pop him outside to die?

The only person who said they saw a Ford edge was lucky, a colour blind, night shift worker. He also grew up with the Alberts. If they have *such* a hold over everyone in the town to help them cover up this shocker, why would Lucky go out on a limb and say he saw a car there, and risk the wrath of the so called all powerful Alberts?

 

[avabella]

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

None of that answers what I asked in that post

Why did her sensors not alert her when she brushed johns car? (Or did they alert her and she ignored?)

Why did she say so publicly that johns ‘time of death’ was 12.30-12.35? How and why could she have known that?

 

[NarcRage]

Why did she say so publicly that johns ‘time of death’ was 12.30-12.35? How and why could she have known that?

Lucky guess

 

[LondonCalling272]

He wasn’t put out on the lawn until after 3.30am. When Brian Higgins ford edge was back at the property.
Even a nurse who worked on him at the hospital said they were the injuries from a fight and not from a 60000 pound car.

The ME did say the hospital had been told he’d been at a party and there had been an altercation.

Higgins; he said he went to the police department to move cars. Said he hadn’t called anyone but there was a video of him at the sallyport on the phone then the second video of him at the PD showed him again on the phones and going in and out of cars to retrieve something.
Saw a theory that it was a faraday bag for John’s phone

 

[NarcRage]

The ME did say the hospital had been told he’d been at a party and there had been an altercation.

Higgins; he said he went to the police department to move cars. Said he hadn’t called anyone but there was a video of him at the sallyport on the phone then the second video of him at the PD showed him again on the phones and going in and out of cars to retrieve something.
Saw a theory that it was a faraday bag for John’s phone

A Faraday bag? I've heard it all now.

They go and get a Faraday bag but leave it to chance that he might wake up and tell everyone he was beaten up and ask Google how long it will take him to die?

Honestly we are literally in tin foil hat levels of crazy now

 

[evoway13]

A Faraday bag? I've heard it all now.

They go and get a Faraday bag but leave it to chance that he might wake up and tell everyone he was beaten up and ask Google how long it will take him to die?

Honestly we are literally in tin foil hat levels of crazy now

What do you mean? During testimony they said that mobile phones were placed in Faraday bags . Here's one they use:

 

[NarcRage]

What do you mean? During testimony they said that mobile phones were placed in Faraday bags . Here's one they use:View attachment 3569303

They went to get a Faraday bag so they could move his phone outside (what about the temperature? Did they keep it in the freezer until they moved it in the Faraday bag?) but left it to chance that he might or might not die? Make it make sense.