Karen Read Case

[avabella]

Serious question which will take a bit of introspection and real objective mindset.

If John had been your brother/uncle/dad/cousin/friend, and you knew about the volatile relationship between Karen and him. You potentially knew she had been texting another guy behind his back. You knew about the awful Aruba trip. You knew Karen likes a drink. And he turned up dead. And Karen had a broken taillight. And you learn she had been driving well over the legal limit. And then you heard all the vile voicemails and texts she sent that night. And during the trial you saw that the data between her car and John's phone never moving again.

Would you still be claiming it was a cover up?




I ask this because someone on Facebook was delighted that Alessi had 'spiced things up' (their words, not mine) this week, because last week was pretty 'boring' (again, their words). I'm speechless at this sort of attitude, and it shows that for some, this is no more than entertainment on their screen, something to pass the time, something to involve themselves in, immerse themselves in. They're not seeing John as a person, who has died. Whose family had to bury, who are grieving him. They're not thinking of his niece and nephew, who are now thrice orphaned. They think this is all a drama for them to follow along and conspire about.

So, if your family member had been the one to die alone, in the snow, would you disregard Karen and pursue an investigation elsewhere?

 

[evoway13]

Serious question which will take a bit of introspection and real objective mindset.

If John had been your brother/uncle/dad/cousin/friend, and you knew about the volatile relationship between Karen and him. You potentially knew she had been texting another guy behind his back. You knew about the awful Aruba trip. You knew Karen likes a drink. And he turned up dead. And Karen had a broken taillight. And you learn she had been driving well over the legal limit. And then you heard all the vile voicemails and texts she sent that night. And during the trial you saw that the data between her car and John's phone never moving again.

Would you still be claiming it was a cover up?




I ask this because someone on Facebook was delighted that Alessi had 'spiced things up' (their words, not mine) this week, because last week was pretty 'boring' (again, their words). I'm speechless at this sort of attitude, and it shows that for some, this is no more than entertainment on their screen, something to pass the time, something to involve themselves in, immerse themselves in. They're not seeing John as a person, who has died. Whose family had to bury, who are grieving him. They're not thinking of his niece and nephew, who are now thrice orphaned. They think this is all a drama for them to follow along and conspire about.

So, if your family member had been the one to die alone, in the snow, would you disregard Karen and pursue an investigation elsewhere?

I’ve lost a brother - July 2000 motorbike collision. Believe it or not, his partner of 20 years moved her boyfriend in within six months of my brother being killed. We’ve not spoken to her since. There were rumours she was having an affair with this guy for a couple of years. We know she didn’t kill my brother but, she is a horrid person. Should he have died the way John O’Keefe did, I can imagine thinking that she killed him.

 

[avabella]

I’ve lost a brother - July 2000 motorbike collision. Believe it or not, his partner of 20 years moved her boyfriend in within six months of my brother being killed. We’ve not spoken to her since. There were rumours she was having an affair with this guy for a couple of years. We know she didn’t kill my brother but, she is a horrid person. Should he have died the way John O’Keefe did, I can imagine thinking that she killed him.

That's awful, and I'm so sorry for your loss

Thanks for being honest about your viewpoint. Sometimes I think it's good to step back and remember this is an actual human being and actual human lives, and not just a drama for entertainment. It's such a tragic set of events but something in trying to explain minutiae of the context seems to excite people. The Nicola Bulley case was also a perfect example of this.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Serious question which will take a bit of introspection and real objective mindset.

If John had been your brother/uncle/dad/cousin/friend, and you knew about the volatile relationship between Karen and him. You potentially knew she had been texting another guy behind his back. You knew about the awful Aruba trip. You knew Karen likes a drink. And he turned up dead. And Karen had a broken taillight. And you learn she had been driving well over the legal limit. And then you heard all the vile voicemails and texts she sent that night. And during the trial you saw that the data between her car and John's phone never moving again.

Would you still be claiming it was a cover up?




I ask this because someone on Facebook was delighted that Alessi had 'spiced things up' (their words, not mine) this week, because last week was pretty 'boring' (again, their words). I'm speechless at this sort of attitude, and it shows that for some, this is no more than entertainment on their screen, something to pass the time, something to involve themselves in, immerse themselves in. They're not seeing John as a person, who has died. Whose family had to bury, who are grieving him. They're not thinking of his niece and nephew, who are now thrice orphaned. They think this is all a drama for them to follow along and conspire about.

So, if your family member had been the one to die alone, in the snow, would you disregard Karen and pursue an investigation elsewhere?

I find it hard to put myself in that situation. I think as a family you would always be looking for someone to blame, JOK’s mom seems like she was never a fan of Karen so maybe it’s easier for her to not look at all the evidence she just wants someone to blame. I’d like to think I would be more rational and look at the situation as a whole and his injuries and stuff but I really don’t know how I would react.

Before I met my husband his father died after falling backwards on the stairs and whacked the back of his head and died instantly. He was home alone and his wife found him. She immediately thought someone must have broke in and scared him but they didn’t and it took her years to come to terms with that.

 

[NarcRage]

I think this latest bloke isn't coming across well. It's a shame they've picked such a tit messenger to deliver the message. The prosecution should have checked him out thoroughly beforehand because the defence were clearly going to use every trick in the book to discredit him and his supplemental report.
With his 17 year long degree and padded Linkedin profile he comes across as a total charlatan and I hope this doesn't take away too much from the underlying information he is trying to get across but I fear it will.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

I think this latest bloke isn't coming across well. It's a shame they've picked such a tit messenger to deliver the message. The prosecution should have checked him out thoroughly beforehand because the defence were clearly going to use every trick in the book to discredit him and his supplemental report.
With his 17 year long degree and padded Linkedin profile he comes across as a total charlatan and I hope this doesn't take away too much from the underlying information he is trying to get across but I fear it will.

Yeah all the jurors will think about him now is that he is not credible.

 

[Tatvam]

I'm willing to bet that Dr Wolfe hasn't lied about his PHD

 

[juniperroad]

Wow, now he is just throwing his employer under the bus. They added his degree, not him.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I’ve lost a brother - July 2000 motorbike collision. Believe it or not, his partner of 20 years moved her boyfriend in within six months of my brother being killed. We’ve not spoken to her since. There were rumours she was having an affair with this guy for a couple of years. We know she didn’t kill my brother but, she is a horrid person. Should he have died the way John O’Keefe did, I can imagine thinking that she killed him.

So sorry for for your loss that’s awful and what a cold thing for her to do

I don’t think there was any love lost between Peggy and Karen. Peggy and John were rumoured to not have been speaking and been fighting over the kids, it’s possible Peggy blamed Karen for some of that and resented her for it?
I think Peggy’s mind was made up when she said about “you left him there”.

I think if any of us were in that situation we would most likely blame the person that was with them or if something came out about the last person with them being blamed for their death you’d believe it.

 

[avabella]

I find it hard to put myself in that situation. I think as a family you would always be looking for someone to blame, JOK’s mom seems like she was never a fan of Karen so maybe it’s easier for her to not look at all the evidence she just wants someone to blame. I’d like to think I would be more rational and look at the situation as a whole and his injuries and stuff but I really don’t know how I would react.

Before I met my husband his father died after falling backwards on the stairs and whacked the back of his head and died instantly. He was home alone and his wife found him. She immediately thought someone must have broke in and scared him but they didn’t and it took her years to come to terms with that.

That’s awful, how sad that he was alone too. That must have been very hard for her to come to terms with.

 

[avabella]

Wow, now he is just throwing his employer under the bus. They added his degree, not him.

I don’t think he’d be responsible for updating the company website himself, do you? So someone who has admin rights has added it, that’s not his fault.

 

[juniperroad]

I don’t think he’d be responsible for updating the company website himself, do you? So someone who has admin rights has added it, that’s not his fault.

Why would they need to update it? Did he tell them he had a degree and then told them he didn't so they need to update the info? Aren't we the ones that tell our employer our education? That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[avabella]

Why would they need to update it? Did he tell them he had a degree and then told them he didn't so they need to update the info? Aren't we the ones that tell our employer our education? That just doesn't make sense to me.

I’m assuming the webpage was created/his profile created when he joined the company? So someone from admin will have taken his form/CV and input details. So they’ve input it incorrectly.
The documentation he gave to the court had the correct information on it, as well as he never said anything about his eduction on the stand. So it’s a non story really.

 

[juniperroad]

But, man, these interviews are going to really hurt her.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Wow, now he is just throwing his employer under the bus. They added his degree, not him.

I don’t think he’ll have a job tomorrow

 

[avabella]

But, man, these interviews are going to really hurt her.

Those, along with the car data, along with John’s phone data, really don’t paint the picture of innocence. I see her mother yesterday and today has been laughing and smirking.
I’m sure there must be a story there, Karen very rarely mentions her mother, preferring to always refer to her father.

 

[juniperroad]

I’m assuming the webpage was created/his profile created when he joined the company? So someone from admin will have taken his form/CV and input details. So they’ve input it incorrectly.
The documentation he gave to the court had the correct information on it, as well as he never said anything about his eduction on the stand. So it’s a non story really.

An expert fudging his credentials is a big story for me. But, maybe that's just me. I would never have the nerve to lie about my education. I would make sure it was correct everywhere my name is connected. Especially on my companies website.

 

[avabella]

An expert fudging his credentials is a big story for me. But, maybe that's just me. I would never have the nerve to lie about my education. I would make sure it was correct everywhere my name is connected. Especially on my companies website.

Sorry I’m confused, where did he lie? On the CV, that he wrote and supplied to the court, it said pending. He also never said anything on the stand. So are we going on the company website? Or a LinkedIn?
I’m pretty sure my LinkedIn says I still work at a different place than I do now, I just never use it. It doesn’t mean I’m not qualified to do my job

 

[NarcRage]

Your credentials are everything if you're an expert witness. If he's lied to get the job in the first place that's bad. If his company has supplied the details they've got them from somewhere, i.e. from him.

I mean there's puff about your experience and you can big up stuff you've done to make it sound like you did more than you did/had a greater role in something etc.

But qualifications are binary you either have them or you don't.

I started an A level in Latin 30 years ago...gave up after three months - i've been meaning to start doing it again now I have more time. But I'd never say my A level Latin was pending. Especially if I were appearing in court as an expert in latin

 

[juniperroad]

Sorry I’m confused, where did he lie? On the CV, that he wrote and supplied to the court, it said pending. He also never said anything on the stand. So are we going on the company website? Or a LinkedIn?
I’m pretty sure my LinkedIn says I still work at a different place than I do now, I just never use it. It doesn’t mean I’m not qualified to do my job

My LinkedIn is outdated also, but has my education correctly. And, my company website would definitely have it correct. But, I'm never going to be called as an expert for anything. We will see what happens.

Hopefully, the accident reconstructionist is soon.

And, it is still hard for me to believe the commonwealth can totally change the way they do this trial compared to the last one.