Karen Read Case

[LondonCalling272]

They must be in on it too

Everyone has a price. Canton is corrupt they spent more time and effort on an investigation into rubber ducks than they did on the investigation into what happened to John O’Keefe.
Maybe do a proper deep dive instead of just being disparaging to people who have a differing opinion because of reasonable doubt.

 

[avabella]

Everyone has a price. Canton is corrupt they spent more time and effort on an investigation into rubber ducks than they did on the investigation into what happened to John O’Keefe.
Maybe do a proper deep dive instead of just being disparaging to people who have a differing opinion because of reasonable doubt.

I’m not being disparaging at all. It’s a common theme amongst conspiracy theories or cover ups to try and find fault with absolutely everything. But where does it stop? Who isn’t involved? This is no more than a surface level case, with a defendant using her female white privilege to her best possible potential, and it’s working.

Had Jose the Uber driver dropped John off who then turned up dead, and he had a broken taillight, telling someone he’d hit him, there would be no cover up theories.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I’m not being disparaging at all. It’s a common theme amongst conspiracy theories or cover ups to try and find fault with absolutely everything. But where does it stop? Who isn’t involved? This is no more than a surface level case, with a defendant using her female white privilege to her best possible potential, and it’s working.

Had Jose the Uber driver dropped John off who then turned up dead, and he had a broken taillight, telling someone he’d hit him, there would be no cover up theories.

Timothy Nuttall & Katie McLaughlin’s testimonies changed from the first trial to the second. Jen McCabe lied to a grand jury and lied to the FBI, Kerry Russell lied to the grand jury - that’s not a conspiracy theory, that happened in court.

 

[avabella]

Timothy Nuttall & Katie McLaughlin’s testimonies changed from the first trial to the second. Jen McCabe lied to a grand jury and lied to the FBI, Kerry Russell lied to the grand jury - that’s not a conspiracy theory, that happened in court.

We could go round all day, but statements like ‘testimonies changed from first trial to second’ leave out important details like it changed from she said ‘I hit him’ twice to 3 times. She still said it.

It’s all very convenient that Karen’s lies or abhorrent behaviour never get scrutinised or brought up. Her own story has changed at *least* twice - and she was the one supposed to have been there.

The data and timeline will show everything clearly, and everything else is just circus.

Again, this conversation wouldn’t be being had if it had been Jose the Uber driver (no shade to the name Jose ).

We shall agree to disagree

 

[LondonCalling272]

The timeline? Which one? The new one that comes from the new report from Welcher who changed his mind after the 7th May report from ARCCA or the car data from the Temu expert Burgess who can’t figure out when he actually got his degree and doesn’t know the difference between bits and bytes.

The I hit him 2/3 times change kinda pales insignificance to lying to a grand jury and the FBI.

It wouldn’t matter if it was a Jose or a Janet, anyone relying on a public defender would have been railroaded in this case.
It wasn’t even supposed to be a trial - “If she pleads out it will end, if she fights it it will be an episode” - from the McCabe / Albert group chat before Karen was even arrested.

Like Alessi and other lawyers and judges have said it’s becoming trial by ambush.

 

[avabella]

The timeline? Which one? The new one that comes from the new report from Welcher who changed his mind after the 7th May report from ARCCA or the car data from the Temu expert Burgess who can’t figure out when he actually got his degree and doesn’t know the difference between bits and bytes.

The I hit him 2/3 times change kinda pales insignificance to lying to a grand jury and the FBI.

It wouldn’t matter if it was a Jose or a Janet, anyone relying on a public defender would have been railroaded in this case.
It wasn’t even supposed to be a trial - “If she pleads out it will end, if she fights it it will be an episode” - from the McCabe / Albert group chat before Karen was even arrested.

Like Alessi and other lawyers and judges have said it’s becoming trial by ambush.

We’ll agree to disagree.

 

[avabella]

I have so many questions but wow. Just wow.

 

[juniperroad]

It points to an expensive defence team.
The data from the car and the phone for me prove that she did it. No doubt whatsoever.

It will be interesting to hear the data from the car this time around. I am going to be interested in them bringing up the first accident reconstructionist. What a crazy joke he was. Hope the new one makes a bit more sense. We will see what happens.

 

[Libertine1975]

They did raise concerns about the collection of evidence, police not having correct equipment to collect evidence, officer’s personal phones being used, no photos taken of John at the crime scene, interviews not being done at the police station or recorded and the integrity of the scene wasn’t preserved as the crime scene wasn’t guarded.

The process of getting the audit was a mess there’s videos of the meetings. 5 stones was pushed by the chair of the meetings despite police audits not being their core business and then there’s this;

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-serious-fraud-office-weaponised-us-fixer-unaoil-case-court-told-2021-10-20/

Access Restricted

Dave Tinsley named as the fixer is the ceo of 5stones

They couldn't take photos of John at the crime scene by the time the police had arrived ed life saving measure were already in place and John has been removed. As EDB says John has to be warmed up before he could be declared dead.

The scene had.already been comprised initially by Karen Read and then Jen and Kari and then the firefighters and paramedics before the police arrived.

I'm not saying the investigation was flawed, it was completely bungled imo but it's also unfair to say things hadn't been done when they couldn't be. Unless you are saying that any potential victim of a crime has to be photographed by the police in situ before they can get medical treatment...

 

[LondonCalling272]

They couldn't take photos of John at the crime scene by the time the police had arrived ed life saving measure were already in place and John has been removed. As EDB says John has to be warmed up before he could be declared dead.

The scene had.already been comprised initially by Karen Read and then Jen and Kari and then the firefighters and paramedics before the police arrived.

I'm not saying the investigation was flawed, it was completely bungled imo but it's also unfair to say things hadn't been done when they couldn't be. Unless you are saying that any potential victim of a crime has to be photographed by the police in situ before they can get medical treatment...

I wasn’t saying that at all, I was saying what 5 Stones had said about the investigation in the audit.

 

[NarcRage]

Ok that’s fair enough if that’s your belief. I find it wild that people can twist and change things to suit some sort of drama fantasy. Perhaps it’s a result of the obsession with true crime in modern times, plus social media.

It's like this trial has taken all the bits from the OJ Simpson case (blame the criminalists, discredit the forensics, point the finger at a rogue officer who can be blamed, invent an implausible alternate reality despite overwhelming evidence etc etc) and learned all the lessons of the Depp Heard trial (whip up the gullible to influence the jury pool) and combined the two.

I feel sorry for John's family and sorry for everyone (the Alberts, the McCabe's etc) whose lives have been completely ruined by Karen Read failing to own up to what she did.

 

[NarcRage]

Had Jose the Uber driver dropped John off who then turned up dead, and he had a broken taillight, telling someone he’d hit him, there would be no cover up theories.

Exactly this! Karen is the epitome of white privilege who can afford an expensive PR campaign and an expensive defence.

The Karen of all Karens.

Also if this has been male on female violence I wonder if there would be different attitude to the behaviour? She was spoiling for a fight/wanting to continue an argument all day and he was ignoring her texts. She was going off on one about nothing. Did he dare to try to walk away from her again when they got to the Albert's place? She was in a violent drunken rage that night but she was raging earlier too. Like when she was raging in Aruba. Totally unhinged. Add alcohol to an abusive person and this is what happens.

 

[avabella]

Exactly this! Karen is the epitome of white privilege who can afford an expensive PR campaign and an expensive defence.

The Karen of all Karens.

Also if this has been male on female violence I wonder if there would be different attitude to the behaviour? She was spoiling for a fight/wanting to continue an argument all day and he was ignoring her texts. She was going off on one about nothing. Did he dare to try to walk away from her again when they got to the Albert's place? She was in a violent drunken rage that night but she was raging earlier too. Like when she was raging in Aruba. Totally unhinged. Add alcohol to an abusive person and this is what happens.

I know this is a serious subject but ‘the Karen of all Karen’s’ made me proper laugh out loud

The whole relationship seemed extremely toxic. To be spoken to in that way (the voicemails), wasn’t a first time occurrence. How many times must she have screamed at him that he’s a p and can go duck himself? Just awful.

Edited to add; for Karen, even the ‘expensive’ PR team has landed on her lap - again, because of white privilege. Her case was largely unheard of until Turtleboy got a hold of it, probably through some misguided attraction to Karen and started all his crazy rumours. She herself feeds him information as she saw immediately what a gravy train that would be. He’s another in what is probably a long line of infatuated men who just do what Karen wants them to do

 

[Tatvam]

People quoting “overwhelming evidence” must be watching a different trial to me.
I’m looking forward to hearing from the new accident reconstructionist, I think depending on how that goes it could be a real turning point.
The prosecution need it to be better than last year but let’s be honest it can't be much worse!

 

[avabella]

People quoting “overwhelming evidence” must be watching a different trial to me.
I’m looking forward to hearing from the new accident reconstructionist, I think depending on how that goes it could be a real turning point.
The prosecution need it to be better than last year but let’s be honest it can't be much worse!

Did you see my video above of AJ speaking about how Karen and John got out the car at 34FV ‘to see if they had the right house’.

Not one person has ever mentioned Karen getting out of the car, not even Karen.

I’m wondering if AJ has data info that shows seatbelts being removed and doors opened, and he’s trying to get ahead of the curve, by saying she got out to check it was the right house, when really, she got out to pull that bit of glass out of John’s nose and didn’t think he looked ‘mortally wounded’.

There is overwhelming evidence, but it’s a case of if you are looking the other way, you won’t see it.

This reminds me of that case where the lady went into the river, and there was massive Facebook groups all blaming her husband, analysing every single detail of their ring camera footage, even down to what song was played at their wedding or something and twisting what the lyrics could have meant - when really, the simplest Occam:s Razor reason was that she went in the river accidentally, and what do you know… it was found she did indeed go into the river.

 

[Alfie1234]

People quoting “overwhelming evidence” must be watching a different trial to me.
I’m looking forward to hearing from the new accident reconstructionist, I think depending on how that goes it could be a real turning point.
The prosecution need it to be better than last year but let’s be honest it can't be much worse!

Definitely watching a different trial, lol. Seems to me that for some posters Karen’s biggest crime is being white and privileged and arguing with her boyfriend. If that’s what we’re judging on then God help us. When they show me some clear cut evidence that she did it then I’ll believe it, for now they haven’t, all they’ve shown me is shady witnesses and police officers willing to lie and if they’re willing to lie under oath then they’re certainly willing to tamper with evidence. Their experts have done nothing to further their case.

 

[NarcRage]

None of this is perfect and I reckon in pretty much every investigation if you want to you would be able to pull holes in what was done. The police don't just turn up and draw a white line around a body like you see in the movies. There is chaos. They try to save people. That compromises a crime scene. People aren't robots. Same with memory. People's memories are not like a video tape. Every time you recount an event there will be differences. That's actually an indicator of a true recollection rather than a rehearsed and pre-agreed "story."

Likewise Proctor. I have watched a female police investigator on a recent TV programme (I forget which one it was) say that when a phone is seized and examined there is almost always nude pictures on there of someone. She said it to another officer on camera in the programme! So yes what he said was awful but I'm sure people who do this for a living expect to find nude photos on phones. It's a modern day phenomenon. If you work in that environment I expect they say this kind of thing to each other all the time. It just looks terrible when it is in a message and relayed in a trial....but I bet it's something every police officer who looks at phones has said to another officer at some point.

 

[avabella]

Does anyone watch Kevin Lenihan? He’s very methodical, and I love his basic premise of evidence + logic = truth.

I hope to God if it was someone’s family member who’d been left in the snow to die that substantial evidence such as tail light pieces, trigger events in car data and a drunken confession by the perpetrator is enough to get you justice and peace, because I categorically doubt you’d be claiming it was corrupt if it had been your family member in the snow.

 

[avabella]

Definitely watching a different trial, lol. Seems to me that for some posters Karen’s biggest crime is being white and privileged and arguing with her boyfriend. If that’s what we’re judging on then God help us. When they show me some clear cut evidence that she did it then I’ll believe it, for now they haven’t, all they’ve shown me is shady witnesses and police officers willing to lie and if they’re willing to lie under oath then they’re certainly willing to tamper with evidence. Their experts have done nothing to further their case.

I’d be interested to know your thoughts on Karen’s changing story? She herself has told two different versions, depending on what helps her best.
Her whole defence actually changed when AJ got involved. Before that, it had been a ‘terrible accident’ to which she had ‘no intent to harm’. So I’m wondering, when does Karen herself become a shady witness who is willing to lie under oath?

 

[NarcRage]

I’d be interested to know your thoughts on Karen’s changing story? She herself has told two different versions, depending on what helps her best.
Her whole defence actually changed when AJ got involved. Before that, it had been a ‘terrible accident’ to which she had ‘no intent to harm’. So I’m wondering, when does Karen herself become a shady witness who is willing to lie under oath?

Oh she won't go under oath though....