Karen Read Case

[Alittlebitofme]

Surely if it goes to another mistrial they won’t try and prosecute for a third time? At some point it has to be done with.

I am nearly sure I read somewhere that the prosecution will fund another mistrial but that would be the final one. I wouldn’t be surprised if after yesterday Hank looked for a mistrial. There is no hope in hell that 12 people on the jury could possibly find her guilty with what they have heard from the commonwealth so far. I’m looking forward to the defence bringing their case.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Seen the below post online:

Just to review - for more than 2.5 years the Commonwealth had Karen Read's black box data for her car, but it didn't tell them the exact moment Karen Read gunned it in reverse, so they had to use key cycles and events, which didn't have times. Then they found a guy from Alabama, pretending to be a college graduate, and he found what no one else before him could find using the same evidence the Commonwealth had this entire time.

 

[LondonCalling272]

Lori Daybell is horrible. Did anyone see she’s trying to get a new trial because of a juror interview? He said he was not guilty until the night before then changed his mind.

Also the balls on that woman for trying to say the judge has been unfair to her, he’s helped her out a lot of times with being pro se when he didn’t have to.

 

[LondonCalling272]

To me it’s glaringly obvious based on the forensic and circumstantial evidence that she’s guilty.

Injuries don’t line up with being hit by a car, an elbow can’t break a tail light like that and a police officer from another town testified the light wasn’t broken it was cracked with a small piece missing.

Key cycle 1162 is when the reverse was meant to have happened - this was when the car was in Dighton not canton.

John’s clothing was left in a police car for a number of weeks.

Commonwealth have had to change their timeline 4 times to try and make it fit.

Half of the tail light pieces from Fairview don’t match Karen’s car.

Lucky Loughran driving a snow plough with a lot of bright lights didn’t see anything at 2:45 then passes again at 3:30 and the Ford Edge is there.

Colin Albert asked Erin Beatty for a ride from Fairview that night. Jen McCabe threatens Erin for talking about it. Colin Albert had bruised knuckles after that night. Everyone lied about Colin being there that night which makes zero sense if he didn’t do anything

Higgins said he went to the police department to move cars but you see him on video taking things out of cars then on the phone

Judge Cannone was asked to recuse herself from the case… the McCabes call her Auntie Bev and there was allegedly a venmo payment for her renting beach house which she got around by saying it was the wrong spelling of her first name.

If it was a fight gone wrong it wouldn’t have taken that many people to be in on it to cover it up. I think if it hadn’t been Karen then Lucky Loughran would have got the blame.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I'm so glad this thread was set up I'm obsessed. I have gone back and forth on this and I just don't know still. I watch it on court tv and they do a good job on it but Karen was texting another cop flirting with him in the days before this, I'll find his name asap but she isn't squeaky clean.

Sometimes I think she was so drunk she unknowingly knocked him down and didn't realize until later.

Yeah this was Higgins who took his phone to a military base and destroyed it the day before the preservation order came out. He had texted Karen that night with Um Well...or something to that effect and she blew him off. Theory kicking around on Twitter is Higgins had motive because she had ghosted him. They invited John over to Fairview with the intention of a fight and it all went wrong.

 

[LondonCalling272]

there is a difference between an out of date CV and blatantly lying about having a degree that you don’t have

Worse than that, he claimed to have a degree that doesn’t even exist. Had another one on there that he “expected” to get - it’s been 17 years

 

[LondonCalling272]

Chloe the dog was rehomed in another state but the defence were never told this info so were unable to obtain evidence, teeth patterns etc. The DNA from John’s arm came back as pig IIRC - could it have been from a dog treat such as pigs ears?
They sold their long term family home a few months after the murder - even though it was never forensically examined but you may be right about poor Chloe which is terrible if they did that.

During the Daubert hearing for Dr Russell, Hank said they had located Chloe and taken moulds of her mouth but who is to say it’s really Chloe. Dogs mouths can also change over time so no idea how reliable it is or if they’ll actually use it.

Kerry Roberts’ cross has been a total shit show, Alan Jackson eviscerated her not sure Hank Brennan can really recover from her admitting to lying to the grand jury. I wish Bev would stop helping witnesses answer questions though it doesn’t sit right.

 

[evoway13]

Serious question which will take a bit of introspection and real objective mindset.

If John had been your brother/uncle/dad/cousin/friend, and you knew about the volatile relationship between Karen and him. You potentially knew she had been texting another guy behind his back. You knew about the awful Aruba trip. You knew Karen likes a drink. And he turned up dead. And Karen had a broken taillight. And you learn she had been driving well over the legal limit. And then you heard all the vile voicemails and texts she sent that night. And during the trial you saw that the data between her car and John's phone never moving again.

Would you still be claiming it was a cover up?




I ask this because someone on Facebook was delighted that Alessi had 'spiced things up' (their words, not mine) this week, because last week was pretty 'boring' (again, their words). I'm speechless at this sort of attitude, and it shows that for some, this is no more than entertainment on their screen, something to pass the time, something to involve themselves in, immerse themselves in. They're not seeing John as a person, who has died. Whose family had to bury, who are grieving him. They're not thinking of his niece and nephew, who are now thrice orphaned. They think this is all a drama for them to follow along and conspire about.

So, if your family member had been the one to die alone, in the snow, would you disregard Karen and pursue an investigation elsewhere?

I’ve lost a brother - July 2000 motorbike collision. Believe it or not, his partner of 20 years moved her boyfriend in within six months of my brother being killed. We’ve not spoken to her since. There were rumours she was having an affair with this guy for a couple of years. We know she didn’t kill my brother but, she is a horrid person. Should he have died the way John O’Keefe did, I can imagine thinking that she killed him.

 

[Naffdoff]

It’s footage from different cameras around the police building showing a “well built” figure dressed in a black hoody and clearly on their phone walking round and into the building. They then go into the office but the camera is on a motion sensor so not true to time their exit it’s all around 1.30am. The officer on the stand confirms it to be Higgins.

 

[Alfie1234]

ARCCA weren't hired by the defence for the first trial, the deleted messages were deleted after the first trial.

Brian Higgins and Brian Albert destroyed their phones the day before the preservation order took effect - Brian Higgins extracted his own messages and turned it over. The implication behind it is that they were hiding something.

John O'Keefe was their friend but they didn't go to his funeral and referred to him as "the guy"

None of this changes there being no scientific evidence that John was hit by Karen's car. The Commonwealth still have a long way to go to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, especially after Yuri Bukhenik's day on the stand yesterday.

This is the part I’m stuck on, even if she hit him by accident why doesn’t he have injuries to prove it? I think she’ll get off, not because she’s innocent but because the police did such a piss poor job of doing a thorough investigation that they won’t be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I also think it’s entirely possible that he did go in that house and something happened there, he could have come out of there injured, she hits him with the car, enough to knock him over, but not enough to kill him, but the cold finishes him off.

 

[LondonCalling272]

They must be in on it too

Everyone has a price. Canton is corrupt they spent more time and effort on an investigation into rubber ducks than they did on the investigation into what happened to John O’Keefe.
Maybe do a proper deep dive instead of just being disparaging to people who have a differing opinion because of reasonable doubt.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

No one has proven she's not - especially not the cover up theorists.

That’s why it’s innocent until proven guilty

 

[avabella]

Genuine question, how was he a victim of verbal abuse? Because they had a row ?

I'm pretty sure this is satire, but in the benefit out of the doubt..

What is *really* quite amusing is that people will stick up for Karen as someone who is not a narc, but 'doesn't stand up for shit' - but then will deny that she was verbally abusing her partner calling him 53 times calling him a pervert, to go fuck himself, to fuck off, that she (fucking) hates him. And then we could also get started on the Aruba trip.... these weren't two isolated incidents.

She was absolutely verbally (and most likely, emotionally) abusing John, yes.

Edited to add: an instance of verbal abuse can be just that, an instance. It doesn't necessarily need to be an ongoing feature of a relationship - a single event can be classed as verbal abuse.

 

[Tatvam]

Each witness could sit up there wearing a clown mask and it still wouldn’t make a bit of difference, she hit him with her car

This comment does just sum up the people that are pro prosecution for me. They don't need to hear from any credible witnesses, don't need to hear any evidence, just she did it and its not fair that she's getting to put up a defence

 

[karma4klattie]

Which it was ordered and turned in - Hank said they got it on the 7th but hadn’t reviewed it yet which sounds like a him problem.
Prosecution started off on a stronger foot with those clips but as it goes on they become more and more out of context and the medical examiner just destroyed his entire case by saying John wasn’t hit by a car. There’s no coming back from that.

She said she clipped him: They'd been drinking remember, maybe the contact was mild enough just to make him lose balance, and it was falling backwards and hitting his head that did the damage, that and the hypothermia. Who knows that John was standing up anyway, he could have been tying a shoelace (or bending down getting a stone out of his trainer, hence having that trainer off), picking up something he'd dropped, lord only knows.

She obviously knows she was instrumental in his death because why else would she say she clipped him (those words came out of her own mouth, hers and hers alone), why, when this attractive man she'd been arguing with didn't come home, did she immediately assume he was dead (a massive assumption) and not either still out drinking or in bed with a woman? How come she went straight to the flagpole and said that that was where she'd expected to find him?

If a partner fails to come home, most of us would simmer with fury and wait to have it out in the morning or whenever they turned up, not be ringing round in a panic in the middle of the night, assuming our partner was dead. That's one hellova stretch. It's bizarre behaviour and reeks of guilt.

 

[Tatvam]

The medical examiner finding no evidence of a motor vehicle strike is pretty reasonable to me

 

[LondonCalling272]

It’s too weird for me. Jen McCabe calls Nicole Albert at 5:07am, before any body is found and when she’s meant to be sleeping.
She also lied to the Grand Jury and she lied to the FBI.

The text between Matt McCabe, Jen McCabe, Nicole Albert and Brian Albert before Karen was even arrested that said “If she pleads out it will end, if she fights it, it will be an episode” how would they even know that was coming??

As to why, there are multiple theories. One of them is that it was Colin and they’re trying to protect him - that would line up with him asking Erin Beatty for a ride from Fairview and why Jen told her to stick a dick in her mouth for talking about Colin.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

What’s stopping Karen’s car alighting the pavement (or burm as they call it) before hitting him? I didn’t state specifically I believe she clipped his knee, that’s one of the explanations Karen gave of what could have happened to him.
His arm / hand was close to that tail light, or else how did the pieces of glass get inside the housing?

Again, I’d love to see the alternative timeline because these incidental occurrences mean nothing without the bigger picture. If there was a timeline of events that showed succinctly how each even happened consequentially, that would make much more sense, and be much more believable.

At the end of the day if the commonwealth had any credible evidence that Karen hit John with her jeep and left him to die then we wouldn’t be on trial number 2 and she would be in prison.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Oh yes I forgot about them getting rid of their phones! Alan Jackson is formidable on the cross, I'm sat behind a TV and I feel like I've done something wrong

Plus didn't Higgins go to some sort of Military base to dispose of his phone ?

Its all a big cover up and the Brian's, Proctor and Jen are bang in the middle of it.

I have not seen Jackson question Kerry yet but can't wait to watch and your so right about him .

He is a fantastic lawyer for Karen and he won't stop until she gets a not guilty verdict.

 

[juniperroad]

Side note, I love the back and forth on this thread. Everyone has valid points and I think have been courteous to each other. I think this is a great example of what the jury will encounter and at the end of the day I think will be hung again.

I agree. You see people getting really nasty with each other on Reddit (even though the mods are pretty quick to take care of it). This case is very divisive! It is nice to read both sides. I doubt we will ever actually know which is sad.