Karen Read Case

[avabella]

I love reading other opinions but not makes me wonder if I’m watching the same trial? That’s not to say you’re wrong and I’m right but it’s amazing how differently we can perceive things and if we are then surely the jury are too?

Well for one tiny example;

why is it ok for Wolfe to have had communications with the defence via signal - an anonymous app which can’t be recovered - and also destroy his phone and get a new one…

but Brian Higgins (whose phone wasn’t required by the police at the time), got rid of his phone and purchased a new one, and somehow it’s evidence of a cover up.

It’s the double standards that are unnecessary.

I’m absolutely steadfast in my opinion that she’s guilty. It’s a small town and people are acting like the Alberts are the Sopranos, with everyone in their pocket covering up the murder - who was one of their friends (a fact a lot of people are forgetting).

Anyway peace out

 

[LondonCalling272]

Is there any evidence of damage to her truck (sorry if im asking an ignorant question im new to this) as surely if she had done this there would be? Ive only watched 1 YouTube video and that was saying shes as guilty as sin so i need to watch some more for balance any recommendations?

The tail light on the passenger side was broken and they found pieces over a number of weeks but another officer from a different police department testified in the first trial that the tail light didn’t look like that when he went to the house.

 

[Carpediem69]

This one is called Red Handed

I’m so on the fence, I just think sometimes the most obvious reason is the truth, and it seems the most obvious truth is that it was Karen.
If it is to be believed to be a cover up, how many people are reliant on keeping their mouths shut to make sure it doesn’t all fold? And why? Why frame Karen specifically? Why would anyone want John dead?

JMO so I don’t why he was murdered but I believe it was just supposed to be a ‘beating’ (Higgins and Karen had been texting and she ghosted him a few days before the murder) and it went wrong when JOK fell and hit his head, possibly on the gym equipment or Chloe the dog was meant to attack him but, again, things went wrong and got out of hand. JOK had also had some trouble with the Alberts son and he was also at the house.

I know the people involved in this are related and/ or are part of the Police dept. and sit on the board in the town. So apart from Kerry Roberts everyone else is inter related. Karen was the ‘outsider’ she wasn’t from Canton and therefore was the easy option for a suspect. At every turn the lead investigator was there over seeing everything - he has now been sacked, after an investigation by the state, due to this case and bringing the PD into disrepute.

The theory is that Karen would take a plea deal and it would all be over with - instead she hired Alan Jackson and this is where the ‘plan’ fell to pieces.

this is Proctor - the one who has now been sacked. Saying he hoped Karen would die at the first trial,

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Did you see Hank slam down his laptop at the end of the day yesterday . He knows the commonwealth are failing miserably and he was so rude with his own witness. I don’t understand how anyone can think she’s guilty of this crime.

 

[juniperroad]

I’m assuming the webpage was created/his profile created when he joined the company? So someone from admin will have taken his form/CV and input details. So they’ve input it incorrectly.
The documentation he gave to the court had the correct information on it, as well as he never said anything about his eduction on the stand. So it’s a non story really.

An expert fudging his credentials is a big story for me. But, maybe that's just me. I would never have the nerve to lie about my education. I would make sure it was correct everywhere my name is connected. Especially on my companies website.

 

[LondonCalling272]

But what’s more likely, that he was alive in the snow and reached for his phone, locking it inadvertently - or multiple randomly connected people all conspiring to cover up a fight and not checking that he’s dead before leaving him on their own… front lawn

If it was purely her word versus theirs and none of the other things had happened then I'd be saying she was guilty. I was dubious at the beginning. But watching the first trial play out and all of the weird things going on, it doesn't make sense.
Lucky, the snowplough driver passed a couple of hours later and saw nothing in the garden. When you look at the pictures from the jury viewing last week, it's not a massive garden there's no way they'd not have seen John while they were leaving - that's why Jen McCabe has added in this new story about looking at people when walking out so she couldn't have looked that way.
Also those voicemails of Karen's are horrible, if you're covering your ass after hitting someone you wouldn't leave voicemails like that you'd have left something saying you were worried and where are you etc.

 

[juniperroad]

Only when he’s being questioned by the clown AJ. He knows what AJ is trying to do and he’s not back down on it, good on him I say.

AJ is just doing what defense attorneys do. It would be nice if we could say the same for these investigators. Normally in the US, when a fellow officer dies, they go above and beyond to be precise and meticulous. If you ran a proper investigation, the questions would be really easy to answer.

 

[Misslucky]

I think the defence had a great day today especially with the previously unseen footage of Higgins

 

[LondonCalling272]

• KR drunk, driving erratically, backs into that other car (other car’s wheel moves a little) earlier in the evening, which cracks and loosens the tail light
• Later on she argues with John, drops him off at the after-party, backs up fast to hurl a final comment, he’s stooping down seeing to his trainer, a projecting bit of the cracked taillight scratches him above the eye as the car knocks him off balance and he falls backwards. As the car ‘clips’ John the taillight falls apart and the bits drop to the ground. John possibly too drunk to get up at once, or maybe stunned, unconscious or dead.
• KR drives home unaware of what has happened to John. If he was stooped down maybe she didn’t even see him in her rear-view mirrors and thinks he’s gone into the house. Possibly she was aware the car had bumped something and only later realised it was John. Numerous escalating hysterical phone calls to John followed by a dawning fear and phone calls to other people.
• Returns direct to the flagpole where John is laying and says it’s exactly where she expected to find him.

I don’t think the phone calls were a cover-up, they were scorned-woman fury followed by horrible realisation. Manslaughter at most, certainly not murder, but I’m sure she did it. Somehow!

n.b. I wish I had an explanation for the arm wounds! Anyone?

Karen reversed into John’s car after she’s alleged to have hit John so the tail light wasn’t already loose before he was hit.
It also didn’t make sense the way the pieces were just nonchalantly picked up by cops driving past on their way home as per Berkowitz - he can’t answer for that now though as he has passed away.

The investigation was an absolute shit show, I just don’t see how they can get past reasonable doubt unless this new data from Aperture blows everything out of the water

 

[Naffdoff]

How many people would have to conspire against her for it not to be just her running him over? doubtless there are some shadowy figures but it’s a stretch 2 far imo. I feel sorry for his family having to watch her media circus when he seems to be the forgotten victim

 

[evoway13]

ok. There’s no point continuing.

I thought you were 'evidence led'? How do you explain the phone and the scratches on the right arm?

 

[Tatvam]

Ok. We're probably going to go round in circles with this one! I respect that you've made your mind up of her guilt..
I just genuinely don't know what the prosecution have actually proved so far.. and we're like four weeks in!

 

[NarcRage]

Ok that’s fair enough if that’s your belief. I find it wild that people can twist and change things to suit some sort of drama fantasy. Perhaps it’s a result of the obsession with true crime in modern times, plus social media.

It's like this trial has taken all the bits from the OJ Simpson case (blame the criminalists, discredit the forensics, point the finger at a rogue officer who can be blamed, invent an implausible alternate reality despite overwhelming evidence etc etc) and learned all the lessons of the Depp Heard trial (whip up the gullible to influence the jury pool) and combined the two.

I feel sorry for John's family and sorry for everyone (the Alberts, the McCabe's etc) whose lives have been completely ruined by Karen Read failing to own up to what she did.

 

[Alfie1234]

Annnndddd just like the defence, cherry pick one tiny statement and try to twist it into something. It has everything to do with everything. She has gained instant support due to her white privilege.

If John had been run over by a black undocumented Uber driver, with pieces of his broken taillight found where his dead body lay, there would be ZERO cover up allegations.

Best go and let Lori, Sarah, Lucy and all the other recently convicted small white women out then .

I Have no clue whether she’s guilty or not and I have no bias against or for, whereas you seem to have made up your mind. I’m just enjoying watching the trial and chatting about it, not interested in being preached at thanks.

 

[juniperroad]

I wonder if he could have been bent over and the car hit his arm/head. Would account for no lower body injuries I guess.

How would he have no bruises? I fell over trying to ride an electric bike last year. My shoe got tangled in the pedal and I fell straight over on my right side onto the road. I had a huge bruise on my hip, one on my knee and my hand hurt like the devil. There is no way he would not be super bruised after being hit and flown through the air to land on the ground (IMO). I wish they would make it make sense

 

[juniperroad]

I can’t say I’m particularly enjoying a trial of a murdered man, but it’s an interesting insight into a system that I thank god I will never ever play a part in

If it was the system you were dealing with you would probably not be happy about it. Troopers and cops are regularly called as witnesses in court cases. They know how this system works. They know how to testify, be professionals, show the evidence and not get rattled by defense attorneys. Not what we are seeing with this case and honestly, as someone in this country it makes me really nervous that this type of investigation took place.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

I’m not sure I’d call what he did dodgy. Stupid, yes.

so finding a body on someone’s lawn and not knocking on the door of the owner of the lawn to see if they know anything is not dodgy ?

 

[avabella]

ARCCA weren't hired by the defence for the first trial, the deleted messages were deleted after the first trial.

Brian Higgins and Brian Albert destroyed their phones the day before the preservation order took effect - Brian Higgins extracted his own messages and turned it over. The implication behind it is that they were hiding something.

John O'Keefe was their friend but they didn't go to his funeral and referred to him as "the guy"

None of this changes there being no scientific evidence that John was hit by Karen's car. The Commonwealth still have a long way to go to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, especially after Yuri Bukhenik's day on the stand yesterday.

Or - they didn’t want their private messages to be dragged through a court the way they had seen Michael Procters personal phone be ransacked?

I think she is guilty but it was an accident and not intentional. I do think she probably initially hadn't realised.

I don't think the judge is bias against the defence she rips them a new one from time to time but they ultimately get their way.

I just don't see a large group of people could keep silent for so long. Some of the people there were friends of one of the Albert kids and just don't see that they would keep quiet for an adult they didn't know.

Michael Proctor is a piece of shit and the investigation was totally botched but that is partially because it was never treated like a crime initially.

ARCCA might not have been hired by the defence but their dealings with the defence have been shady.

Also even if i didn't have anything to hide I'd probably destroy my phone if the lawyers defending someone by trying to blame me wanted it.

Everything you’ve said is spot on.

I have no time for cover up theories or trying to stretch the narrative beyond all comprehension just to try and prove some petite white woman is innocent.

It’s the easiest cluedo puzzle in the world to solve and the very fact that the answer is staring everyone in the face is probably the reason some are thinking it’s ’too easy’. I wonder if they thought Lucy Letby was innocent too.

 

[Carpediem69]

Plus didn't Higgins go to some sort of Military base to dispose of his phone ?

Its all a big cover up and the Brian's, Proctor and Jen are bang in the middle of it.

I have not seen Jackson question Kerry yet but can't wait to watch and your so right about him .

He is a fantastic lawyer for Karen and he won't stop until she gets a not guilty verdict.

Yes he drove to a military base to dump his phone/sim card - he said it was a shortcut - yeah right

you are in for a treat when AJ questions Kerry Roberts - she is obviously being coached by Jen McCabe - I cannot wait for her to get back on the stand - AJ will be so ready for her with her ‘can I see that’?

I defo would AJ my new crush

 

[LondonCalling272]

So I guess that leads onto the forensic evidence that had John’s DNA on the pieces of glass. Proctor didn’t go to the scene until the following day I think, so johns body would have been removed? How could he have gotten pieces of the tail light and managed to get it to touch Johns DNA? And how small shards were found in johns clothing. It would add yet another person to the ‘planting’ tail light evidence. I just don’t buy it. I hadn’t heard he had it in his car for 6 weeks though, that’s crazy.

It was Proctor's car that the clothing was in for 6 weeks so anything is possible, he seemed to have decided Karen did it right off the bat from the texts that came out of the investigation. There was also the weird thing of one of the gift from the Alberts.