Karen Read Case

[Alittlebitofme]

How they gathered evidence was insane, in red solo cups!!! The whole case is laughable. Its like a scene from Tom & Jerry !

 

[Tatvam]

ARRCA is 1000% the only reasonable doubt the defense need. Which is why the CW have tried so hard to get them thrown out. Sometimes it feels with this case that Karen Read is having to prove that she's innocent rather than the CW having to prove she's guilty.
Like I've said before on here, I think she could have done it but unfortunately the CW just can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no way 12 people will all agree on murder. I think it will even be a stretch for one of the lesser includeds.
The O'Keefes really should give up sueing Karen and move to the Canton police/Alberts. They're the ones that ruined the chance of any real justice.

 

[Nottonightbabe]

Love that there is a thread for this, I watched the full trial and now watching the retrial, she is so obviously innocent, there is too much doubt. Both Brian's getting rid of their phones, Michael Proctor is a pig and the judge is a joke!

Alan Jackson is amazing!!

Oh yes I forgot about them getting rid of their phones! Alan Jackson is formidable on the cross, I'm sat behind a TV and I feel like I've done something wrong

 

[NarcRage]

Your credentials are everything if you're an expert witness. If he's lied to get the job in the first place that's bad. If his company has supplied the details they've got them from somewhere, i.e. from him.

I mean there's puff about your experience and you can big up stuff you've done to make it sound like you did more than you did/had a greater role in something etc.

But qualifications are binary you either have them or you don't.

I started an A level in Latin 30 years ago...gave up after three months - i've been meaning to start doing it again now I have more time. But I'd never say my A level Latin was pending. Especially if I were appearing in court as an expert in latin

 

[juniperroad]

I'm so glad to see a thread on this. I've wanted to talk with people - I tried yesterday to explain it to my husband but it IS so crazy and so much to get into. I don't have any idea what really happened (probably never will) and no idea if she is guilty or not. But, his body does not have the type of injuries you'd assume from a Lexus SUV (fairly large) hitting a man going 24 miles per hour in reverse. I also have no idea how you could get a car going 24 mph in reverse (on a small, curving type road) to launch his body 30 feet into the air. He has no injuries, no bruises, no broken bones where you would expect them to be if you were hit by a car. I just can't wrap my head around that.

Andrea Burkhart, a lawyer with a youtube channel, mentioned that she is a boxer and he has what looks to her boxing type wounds. Huge black eye, goose egg above the eye, droplets of blood on his shirt, shoes from a nose type bleed. Not much blood found even though he has a massive head wound on the back of his head. Bruising on his hands. There would have been a huge blood pool somewhere.

Anyway, I could go on and on, and I feel bad that John O'Keefe seems to get lost in all the noise.

 

[LondonCalling272]

The main argument against the he was beaten in the house and left outside theory is simple to me. That is why would you leave your victim on your own front lawn? Surely you'd leave them down the road somewhere or as you say in the woods.

There were meant to have been problems between Colin Albert and John O’Keefe and Helena Rafferty confirmed John had reported something to do with drug activity in the area. Whether that’s linked or not I don’t know.
It’s weird that the Alberts didn’t come out at all, there was enough commotion to wake the neighbours across the street so you’d think they’d hear it when it’s in their own front yard

Didn’t go to his funeral, nothing in their texts about concern for him or his family but they did text about “tell them the guy never came in the house” and “if she takes a plea this will all go away” before Karen was even arrested.

 

[swipeup25]

Yes, there's a theory that a fight occurred and the German Shepherd dog living at the address got involved. The dog was rehomed out of state.

Not suspicious at all

 

[SirHiss]

Wolfe is a

Wolfe is a paid witness for the defence and was using shady tactics so a

Wolfe is a paid witness for the defence representing a company who have used significantly shady tactics and deliberately kept communications from the prosecution.
Regardless, it’s all a circus because she’s guilty clear as day, so the defence are hanging on with their lives trying to tie everyone up in knots to create distraction and confusion.

If she was "guilty clear as day" we would not be in the middle of a second trial.

 

[Tatvam]

True, let's do away with the justice system and try people on gut feeling and "common sense"
You just don't seem to be able to get your head around the fact that some people are following the law and jury instructions rather than a dislike for a privileged white person

 

[LondonCalling272]

Oooh I'm glad there's a thread for this case now. I've been watching since the first trial.

I don't think Karen did herself any favours with the interviews she did but I believe she's innocent. The ARCCA evidence & Dr Renee Stonebridge's testimony along with the what appear to be dog bites on John's arm don't line up with the commonwealth's theory. It's telling they had to bring in someone who is a mob lawyer as a ringer to prosecute the case.
Bev appears to be biased AF- Brennan was whining about ARCCA again today then Alessi explains why they were later on providing that info as it was down to the commonwealth and Bev calls it a deliberate rule 14 violation by the defence.

I hope Karen gets justice as it will also be justice for John but it's an uphill battle with this judge.

 

[swipeup25]

Also just seen that a juror from the first trial is now acting as a lawyer for Karen read for this second trial. Is that legal? Must be. Mad

 

[Alfie1234]

Again, finding it difficult to believe that the prosecution can prove this case does not mean that you believe in "some sort of drama fantasy". It means you believe in the law

Yeah, I’m with you, I don’t know what this supposed drama fantasy is, but from everything I’ve watched there is more than reasonable doubt and the majority of the prosecution witnesses have been shady and duplicitous in their answers, unable to answer a simple question. If we’re damning Karen for the things she’s said then shouldn’t we be doing that to all the prosecution witnesses who have hidden evidence, lied under oath and dragged out proceedings unnecessarily because they’re trying to protect each other instead of tell the truth. Yuri was more bothered about protecting Proctor than he ever was in upholding his oath and telling the truth.

 

[Libertine1975]

They did raise concerns about the collection of evidence, police not having correct equipment to collect evidence, officer’s personal phones being used, no photos taken of John at the crime scene, interviews not being done at the police station or recorded and the integrity of the scene wasn’t preserved as the crime scene wasn’t guarded.

The process of getting the audit was a mess there’s videos of the meetings. 5 stones was pushed by the chair of the meetings despite police audits not being their core business and then there’s this;

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-serious-fraud-office-weaponised-us-fixer-unaoil-case-court-told-2021-10-20/

Access Restricted

Dave Tinsley named as the fixer is the ceo of 5stones

They couldn't take photos of John at the crime scene by the time the police had arrived ed life saving measure were already in place and John has been removed. As EDB says John has to be warmed up before he could be declared dead.

The scene had.already been comprised initially by Karen Read and then Jen and Kari and then the firefighters and paramedics before the police arrived.

I'm not saying the investigation was flawed, it was completely bungled imo but it's also unfair to say things hadn't been done when they couldn't be. Unless you are saying that any potential victim of a crime has to be photographed by the police in situ before they can get medical treatment...

 

[SocksMagoo]

On Court TV one of the defence lawyers said "If you can't attack the evidence, you attack the witness", and a while ago, another of them had said "If you can't argue the evidence and you can't argue the law, just argue." Alessi is giving a masterclass. He's good, he's very, very good.

I took part in a mock cross-examination for my degree and our lecturer went hard on us to emphasis how necessary it is for expert witness to be clear in their evidence and testimonies, because defence lawyers will go for any tiny inconsistency to try to damage your credibility.

Having to admit to cut and pasting and errors like 'bits vs bytes' reminds me of the kind of things we were pulled apart for as students, I'd expect someone who has been an expert witness for as long as Burgess has (was it 10 years?) to not be making those kinds of mistakes!

 

[juniperroad]

If we’re holding witnesses to such high standards (and again, he didn’t lie at all to the court or his job), then what about the defendant herself, who has lied numerous times? How can anything she says be credible, when she herself has lied.

This is an expert witness. She is innocent until proven guilty. Maybe the commonwealth will prevail with this jury and prove she did it.

We still have a ways to go. I have no clue if she is innocent or guilty; I am just waiting for the commonwealth to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Alfie1234]

People quoting “overwhelming evidence” must be watching a different trial to me.
I’m looking forward to hearing from the new accident reconstructionist, I think depending on how that goes it could be a real turning point.
The prosecution need it to be better than last year but let’s be honest it can't be much worse!

Definitely watching a different trial, lol. Seems to me that for some posters Karen’s biggest crime is being white and privileged and arguing with her boyfriend. If that’s what we’re judging on then God help us. When they show me some clear cut evidence that she did it then I’ll believe it, for now they haven’t, all they’ve shown me is shady witnesses and police officers willing to lie and if they’re willing to lie under oath then they’re certainly willing to tamper with evidence. Their experts have done nothing to further their case.

 

[LondonCalling272]

The theory has never changed from the CW. It’s always been ‘Karen hit him’. If anything it’s the defences theory that is so ambiguous it’s almost laughable. They can’t offer a 3rd party culpability because there’s 0 evidence so they dance around Michael Proctor and how evidence was collected, but without giving an actual alternative theory as to how John died.
Again, reasonable doubt does not mean innocence and that’s the real tragedy here.

I never said they changed their theory being that she hit him?

They have changed their timeline 4 times. Each time it gets disproven they move the goalposts.
It’s not actually the defence’s job to give an alternate theory to how John died, the onus is only on them to prove it wasn’t Karen.

I’m not saying it means she’s innocent, that’s subjective and down to personal opinion but as it stands the commonwealth need to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and their timeline was shot they then came back and changed the timeline yet again.

Evidence is supposed to be collected, logged and stored to avoid tampering. There’s no proper chain of custody when something is kicking around his car for weeks and could easily have been tampered with.
The Deighton police officer, Nicholas Barros testified that the tail light was cracked with one small piece missing and that was after John was alleged to have been hit.

Multiple witnesses from the CW have now perjured themselves, Jen McCabe lied to the grand jury, lied to the FBI, deleted hundreds of calls. Brian Albert butt dialled Brian Higgins who butt dialled him right back just minutes before the “hos long to die in cold” search at 2:27, all of them had butt dials between each other yet none of the butt dials had voicemails.
There’s something dodgy going on in all of it.

 

[TapToBoreMeRigid]

Those of you who think guilty, would you be able to find her guilty as a juror?

Currently I think she didn't do it but even when I've had moments of thinking guilty, it's never been enough to take me over the threshold if it came to me being a juror.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I don't know this story..?

Ohhh.

Paul O'Keefe was messaging someone, sending pics and making signals to her on cam in court, said he hated having kids. Offered to turn her into a glazed donut

 

[avabella]

Right I’ve lost the last 24 hours of my life and I’m currently running on insane amounts of caffeine and adrenaline, but I’ve done a massive deep dive and I’m on team guilty. Off to watch the live trial now