Jay Z & Beyonce

[Foxvint]

I start from a position of #believeher so i believe the allegations about Jay but I'm a big fan of Beyonce so maybe this thread isn't for me. That doesn't mean I applaud every single decision she makes though, the criticism about Blue being pushed into the limelight to take up the baton when she retires is entirely valid. Its like the family firm now innit fame. All these nepo kids foisted on us.

To answer a question upthread about why she rewrote the lyrics to Jolene- it's a big iconic country song, you can't really think country without Jolene unless you're massively steeped in the genre so it's a modern take where the protagonist is warning her rival rather than begging. She also didn't claim any songwriting credits on it despite doing a whole new arrangement, new verse for the male voices at the end etc- Dolly is listed as the sole songwriter so all the royalties go only to Dolly which is a nice touch. Giving her her flowers.

And yeh the expectation that women over 40 who are at the peek of their careers and creativity should dial it down and start wearing slacks is a load of misogo guff that can get in the bin.
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When ppl say her name is connected to being the unnamed celeb there at the grape, they mean gossip online. She hasn't been named in any statement. It's not clear if she was even dating Jay Z at that point. You don't have to be fan to reject a woman being tarred with the crimes of a man.

 

[Codiaeum]

She cannot claim songwriting credits, just rewriting a bit doesn’t negate intellectual property rights, so this isn’t something she chose to do. Royalties here meaning streaming revenue, are very difficult due to how the music industry is set up, as rightsholders have deep structures, owning lyrics doesn’t equal getting (all) royalties (I've worked in an industry very adjacent to this so I sadly know way more about music royalties than I ever wanted to know I promise I have more interesting hobbies). Beyoncé will have needed to request (this is a rather informal process though) to record a cover or make use of samples from Jolene, meaning royalties for melody, performance rights, etc also need to happen - she could have changed every word but the rightsholders of the melody and production would still get their share. If Dolly owns 50% of the lyrics rights and Beyonce owns the other half - but Dolly continues to own 100% of publishing rights, she effectively owns more than Beyonce.
I assume both parties will have come to an agreement that works for both ends - Dolly has refused to give Elvis Presley credit before for a song she wrote and for which he wanted 50%, so it's not like she doesn't know what she is doing.

 

[Foxvint]

She cannot claim songwriting credits, just rewriting a bit doesn’t negate intellectual property rights, so this isn’t something she chose to do. Royalties here meaning streaming revenue, are very difficult due to how the music industry is set up, as rightsholders have deep structures, owning lyrics doesn’t equal getting (all) royalties (I've worked in an industry very adjacent to this so I sadly know way more about music royalties than I ever wanted to know I promise I have more interesting hobbies). Beyoncé will have needed to request (this is a rather informal process though) to record a cover or make use of samples from Jolene, meaning royalties for melody, performance rights, etc also need to happen - she could have changed every word but the rightsholders of the melody and production would still get their share. If Dolly owns 50% of the lyrics rights and Beyonce owns the other half - but Dolly continues to own 100% of publishing rights, she effectively owns more than Beyonce.
I assume both parties will have come to an agreement that works for both ends - Dolly has refused to give Elvis Presley credit before for a song she wrote and for which he wanted 50%, so it's not like she doesn't know what she is doing.

Interesting, thank you.

 

[Codiaeum]

Interesting, thank you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across weirdly here - it's just a topic I happen to have worked with and honestly was shocked how complicated it all is, it looks so easy and straightforward on surface of singer sings -> gets all the money. I'm not a Beyoncé fan and don't know too much about her work, I do know this isn't the first time she covered or sampled a high profile artist and she will have some of the best publishing licencors work with her - as does Dolly P. I wouldn't read too much into how the credits are distributed other than that they probably came to a very good mutual agreement here and Dolly publicly said she liked Beyoncé's version and lyrical changes. Dolly also asked people to stream her original, so she cleverly used the publicity Beyoncé created with such a high-profile cover to keep her version also up and running and make sure people also knew the original is by her, plus she'll get mechanical payouts from Beyoncé's version. It's all really net.

 

[Foxvint]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across weirdly here - it's just a topic I happen to have worked with and honestly was shocked how complicated it all is, it looks so easy and straightforward on surface of singer sings -> gets all the money. I'm not a Beyoncé fan and don't know too much about her work, I do know this isn't the first time she covered or sampled a high profile artist and she will have some of the best publishing licencors work with her - as does Dolly P. I wouldn't read too much into how the credits are distributed other than that they probably came to a very good mutual agreement here and Dolly publicly said she liked Beyoncé's version and lyrical changes. Dolly also asked people to stream her original, so she cleverly used the publicity Beyoncé created with such a high-profile cover to keep her version also up and running and make sure people also knew the original is by her, plus she'll get mechanical payouts from Beyoncé's version. It's all really net.

Not at all, it's great to hear from someone in the know. Happy to be corrected.

 

[lilyannrose]

Blue Ivy being all done up like that is giving JonBenet Ramsey vibes, I find it creepy and sad. Feel sorry for her as if Blue is wanting to be out there like this, good parents would try to protect by saying no. Clearly mum and dad have used all their connections for this hard launch of Blue to even happen and that's disgraceful.

Gone right off Beyonce now, not just this but also the dropping of Carter from her stage name when she's milked it for so long. Makes me think she's pretty duplicitous.

 

[WhatwouldPrinnyDo]

Just can’t get my head around why Blue Ivy needs to be included in the line up of dancers, she was in no way good enough (understandably), very stiff and terrified looking some of the time. Fair enough, she might love dancing but then she should be trained in a formal dance troupe and perform with them until she is genuinely good enough to perform on a massive public scale. It’s so jarring how these VERY average kids are given these opportunities based on very little talent ( aka Beckhams/ North West etc).

 

[Jane Tee]

Just can’t get my head around why Blue Ivy needs to be included in the line up of dancers, she was in no way good enough (understandably), very stiff and terrified looking some of the time. Fair enough, she might love dancing but then she should be trained in a formal dance troupe and perform with them until she is genuinely good enough to perform on a massive public scale. It’s so jarring how these VERY average kids are given these opportunities based on very little talent ( aka Beckhams/ North West etc).

She'd never get to do it on her own merit. She doesn't' have 'it'
Even with dance lessons some aren't good enough. Just because you want to do it, doesn't mean you can

 

[Jucyberry]

Crimes against facial hair

View attachment 3315125

He's one hell of an weird mo fo. He makes my skin crawl.

 

[Yel]

I mean I like the album, but 72 writers is ridiculous. I know lots are due to samples, but still.

 

[Foxvint]

I don't understand why Blue has to get up with Bey and stand there like a lemon while she's accepting her award. Being there at the grammys with her mum and dad should've been more than enough. They're risking market saturation with her. In fact can all the overconfident pampered offspring of celebs stay home in their spiderman jarmies with the nanny on grammys/Oscars night. I don't need to see Alicia Keys annoyingly named toddler waving at Taylor Swift. We're watching for the fashion and who was robbed by who.

 

[dumdums83]

So jay z has been spending quite abit of money lately, first it was bey’s Grammy and now it seems the 13 year old victim has “dropped” her case” not jay just paid her off

 

[Mishmash1207]

So jay z has been spending quite abit of money lately, first it was bey’s Grammy and now it seems the 13 year old victim has “dropped” her case” not jay just paid her off

I honestly don't believe that he paid her off. If he did, it would've been made public knowledge. The lawyer representing the victim would've made sure if it. He was very vocal about his honesty from the beginning. I don't believe a man would settle after claiming innocence, just for the sake of making the case go away. The case was BS from the beginning. I get it, people don't like Beyonce of Jay-Z, (I personally don't care for the latter), but it was very clear that this was a cash grab that went wrong. This case makes me wonder how many other celebrities have had to pay out, so they don't have their image ruined.

Regarding the Grammy, I am not well versed in how that works, however, if they were to be brought, I would've expected Taylor Swift to have one an award this year, but she didn't win any. I was under the assumption that the Grammys were voted for by peers in the music industry. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

There’s simply no way Jay Z is paying someone off without an NDA attached

 

[Clueless81]

Agree there was no pay off in this case. The accuser has confirmed that she made mistakes in her claim on who was there at what time etc. Jay Z had filed an application for leave to to file a motion to dismiss, Jane doe's lawyers opposed this but the application was granted, the motion to dismiss was filed and the matter ultimately withdrawn shortly thereafter, his lawyers have stated publicly that no money changed hands. It is likely this was a money grab case and they realised that the chances of surviving the motion were slim. Lawyers want to be paid so will not continue with cases with a high chance of failure. One of the complaints was that Buzbee had not met and verified the claims of Jane Doe before the filing the case, they probably did not expect Jay Z to fight as hard as he did and this was probably not the case to move forward.

 

[dumdums83]

Agree there was no pay off in this case. The accuser has confirmed that she made mistakes in her claim on who was there at what time etc. Jay Z had filed an application for leave to to file a motion to dismiss, Jane doe's lawyers opposed this but the application was granted, the motion to dismiss was filed and the matter ultimately withdrawn shortly thereafter, his lawyers have stated publicly that no money changed hands. It is likely this was a money grab case and they realised that the chances of surviving the motion were slim. Lawyers want to be paid so will not continue with cases with a high chance of failure. One of the complaints was that Buzbee had not met and verified the claims of Jane Doe before the filing the case, they probably did not expect Jay Z to fight as hard as he did and this was probably not the case to move forward.

The victim was scared that her name would be released and with no evidence there wasn’t much chance of her winning, sorry but jay z is a predator along with best friend diddy!

and as for the Grammy win he paid for votes so beynoncey would win, that album was tit, bey doesn’t have the star power she once did!

 

[Clueless81]

The victim was scared that her name would be released and with no evidence there wasn’t much chance of her winning, sorry but jay z is a predator along with best friend diddy!

and as for the Grammy win he paid for votes so beynoncey would win, that album was tit, bey doesn’t have the star power she once did!

The judge had already granted an order that her name not be realised and she could continue as Jane Doe so that was not the reason. If she was scared of her name being released the case would have been dropped back in December when that application (to name her) was made.

The case was dropped because she kept contradicting herself and had named people in the suit who it transpired were not in New York on that day. There was a motion to dismiss and Buzbee decided this was not a case that was winnable.

Jay Z may well be a predator, I don't know. But in this case I do believe it was a cash grab.

Not sure why you are talking about the Grammy's I never mentioned them.and has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about which was the dropping of the case against Jay Z.

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

and as for the Grammy win he paid for votes so beynoncey would win, that album was tit, bey doesn’t have the star power she once did!

I just struggle to understand what makes her stand out from any other 'star of the time'. I can't see anything she's done that could be considered revolutionary or that she spearheaded.

The 'Cultural Impact of Beyonce' Wikipedia page for instance... apparently she 'revived the music video as an art form' and 'is single handedly keeping the art of the music video alive'. Madonna and Michael Jackson were certainly making iconic ones far before her, and I'd argue Lady Gaga and Rihanna were producing them at Beyonce's heyday. They certainly haven't died since then. The idea that she's somehow revolutionary for combining/switching genres - she's not even the only contemporary star to do that, Taylor Swift does.

I understand people finding her music appealing, perhaps looking up to her as a beautiful black woman, etc. But I find her in all ways just an average popstar of our time.

 

[Spid]

I just struggle to understand what makes her stand out from any other 'star of the time'. I can't see anything she's done that could be considered revolutionary or that she spearheaded.

The 'Cultural Impact of Beyonce' Wikipedia page for instance... apparently she 'revived the music video as an art form' and 'is single handedly keeping the art of the music video alive'. Madonna and Michael Jackson were certainly making iconic ones far before her, and I'd argue Lady Gaga and Rihanna were producing them at Beyonce's heyday. They certainly haven't died since then. The idea that she's somehow revolutionary for combining/switching genres - she's not even the only contemporary star to do that, Taylor Swift does.

I understand people finding her music appealing, perhaps looking up to her as a beautiful black woman, etc. But I find her in all ways just an average popstar of our time.

Well Gaga has fallen off music wise big time and Rihanna hasn't had album in nearly 10 years. But it was Beyonce who started doing surprise album releases too.

 

[JARhead]

apparently she 'revived the music video as an art form' and 'is single handedly keeping the art of the music video alive'.

OK GO would like a word