J. K. Rowling

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The idea that trans people live their entire existence to fill a sexual fetish is utter diabolical. Just like the idea that trans people have a paedophilic agenda. Again this was said about gay men for centuries. It’s just a way to use your own children to weave an insidious narrative around marginalised groups who don’t conform to your traditional values.
It is not what's been said about gay men for centuries.

Homosexuality had its swings across the centuries, from being seen as "perverted and abnormal" to being perfectly normal and acceptable.

In the Roman empire homosexuality was normal.
One emperor (forgot who) declined men as lovers and was deemed "not normal" for just wanting women.

In ancient Greece it was normal for male teachers and their male scholars to engage in sex, only during certain age so it wasn't "inappropriate" (ie p*edophilia or indeed, as adults, homosexuality).

To say that homosexuality was always perceived as a negative is wrong.
 
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And now you're spouting propaganda and hate speech of your own under the guise of feminism...



All I see in this thread is hate and bigotry. People obsessed and consumed with hatred for trans people simply because they are trans.

The posts are filled with belittling and crass and gross comments about trans people their lives and bodies. Every single bigoted comment over simplifies the trans experience by making light of people's lives and existence.

You all claim to care and are full of compassion... but it is entirely self serving. It's only about issues which concern yourselves.
Please can you quote some of these belittling and gross comments? Can you quote some posts that are full of hate and bigotry and point it out?

I’m having trouble seeing what you’re seeing.

I see a lot of posters who are pro-woman, fighting to retain women’s rights, with clear understanding of what’s happening.

Because they championed trans rights until trans people got a little too equal. Then it’s not ok.

Humans will happily live with other minority humans but only when that minority stays a minority and stays in their place. If things get too much, out comes the vitriol.
No, we happily championed trans rights until the rights they wanted actively ruined our own. I suspect you know that, though.
 
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Is someone going to answer my question about why it's not ok for women with previous male inflicted trauma to not want to share toilets with trans women with pen?
 
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Excuse me but you're talking absolute crap like most of the people spouting this vile and hateful nonsense.

In no way are trans people erasing gay and lesbian people that's hilarious. It's not a competition!! I'm pretty certain most LGBT people stand united they certainly wouldn't side with your outdated and small-minded views.

I feel sorry for some of the people on here. I hope you get well soon. The confusion and fixation on trans people is bizarre to me.

Trans people are literally just trying to get on with their lives they aren't trying to attack or take over anything. These are the same narratives that supposed "feminists" use time and time again.

Transpeople will not be erased, they have always existed and their voices will be heard.

This thread reeks of white supremacy and entitlement.
There's so much I want to reply to on this thread but I'll start here as you quoted me.
The notion of transgender ideology automatically erases the definition of homosexuality. If biological sex doesn't exist, AND YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT TRANS ACTIVISTS ARE FIGHTING FOR, then homosexuality becomes meaningless. I will repost this YET again.
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A lot of LGB people are campaigning to drop the T from LGBT and separate out LGB from TQ+ as they conflict with each other so much.

Like someone said a few posts ago, I absolutely used to think the same way as you. I used to think trans people are doing no harm so let them do what they want. It is only recently that I have changed my stance on this after seeing how insidiously misogynistic and violent the trans movement is.

p.s. Alfies_Boy can you please stop laughing at people's posts? It's childish.
 
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I'm glad people more articulate/informed than me are now here.
My main reason for posting was at the time the thread was fairly one sided.
And incase anyone Trans/Have loved ones in the community read this thread, I wanted them to see at least 1 supportive comment.
 
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Nice one Alfies_Boy, such a predictable reaction. Excellent contribution to the discussion. I'll be sure to skip over your posts so.
 
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Still waiting for a response to my question below:

Its women like us who are fighting to protect women like you from further trauma! The trans lobby have vilified lesbians and argued that they are inhumane for not sleeping with trans women. You say you wouldn't be able to sleep with a teams woman, surely you can understand the anger from lesbians who are being told they are homophobic for rejecting pen? And just like you don't want to sleep with a trans woman due to previous trauma, I don't want to share toilet with a trans woman due to previous trauma. Why is your trauma valid and mine bigotry?
Please do not say it's women like you who are "fighting to protect" women like me. That is insulting and such an odd thing to say to someone with trauma. I stood up and fought against my abusers, thank you.

As for your own experience - I am sorry you went through what you went through. That is your own personal experience and if you do not feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with someone who has a pen, that is completely understandable! You have to do what's right for your own comfort. To be honest, I am comfortable enough to admit that I do not know the solution around circumstances like this where past trauma makes other women fearful of this. However, my problem is the idea that trans women, generally, are a threat or a harm for entering public bathrooms. I have never seen another person's genitals while using a public bathroom, which would mean that I could have been peeing in a cubicle right next to someone with a pen, and I would never know. And I see no issue with that. They did their business and they left. We don't know the genitals of every person entering a bathroom, and quite frankly, I don't care as long as everyone is minding their own business and going in there to do what a bathroom is intended for.

If someone wants to grape a woman, they are going to do so almost always regardless of the setting or context. Allowing trans women to use the bathroom which matches their gender is not going to make men think differently or make them dress up in order to "trick" people. One person's doings do not speak for the entire community, especially given that anyone who would take advantage of a situation like that more likely than not is not in fact trans. grape does not discriminate; it does not care where you are, as I've sadly realised, but using that as your main reason for why trans women should not be allowed in women's bathrooms is harmful, assumptious, and is no better than the stigma that all gay men are predators. I can absolutely see your dilemma in regards to your trauma; I empathise with it a lot, and I wish I had a solution because my ideal scenario is that everyone is comfortable - which I know is too fantastical. But my problem lies with people who are using their bigotry towards trans people in general (bigotry that goes beyond just the bathroom discourse) to paint them as being inherently predatory or lesser because of their genitalia or transness.

My trauma does not stop me from having trans women friends. I have been approached by trans women and if I do not like them, I simply say thank you but I'm not interested, as I would with any other woman - trans or cis - who approach me, or any man for that matter. I don't doubt people have faced issues with rejecting someone, but that still isn't a reason to spew hatred at an entire community, when that is a problem that occurs in all walks of life.
 
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Lol you can’t get over how unpopular this nonsense is with 99% of the world’s population.

as for #translivesmatter, did you know that they actually have lower murder rates than average? The only transwomen likely to get killed are those who work as prostitutes.




Caster Semenya is a male. HE was just born without a pen due to androgen insensitivity. Allegedly he was brought up male, and knew of the truth, but invented a female backstory so his mediocre male self could wipe the floor with women.

It is despicable that all three medalists in the Women’s 800m at the Rio Olympics were biological males.

They should rely on genetics tests for Y chromosomes to get rid of these cheats.
She was raised female. This is not a trans issue. It's a hormone in sporting events issue.

Semenya also described a period from 2010-15 where she reluctantly agreed to take testosterone-suppressing contraceptives recommended by the I.A.A.F. so she could keep running.

She said they caused significant weight gain, made her feel sick, and led to fevers and abdominal pain. She maintained the I.A.A.F. had used her as a “lab rat” as it experimented with a medical process it would later introduce as part of its testosterone rules. In a statement Tuesday, Semenya said, “I will not allow the I.A.A.F. to use me and my body again.”
 
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The idea that trans people live their entire existence to fill a sexual fetish is utterly diabolical. Just like the idea that trans people have a paedophilic agenda. Again this was said about gay men for centuries. It’s just a way to use your own children to weave an insidious narrative around marginalised groups who don’t conform to your traditional values.
It is indeed diabolical, and that doesn’t make its existence any less real. If people knew about autogynephilia trans rights would stop in an instant.

And all you can say against this fact is that it’s horrible and anyone who mentions the bleeding obvious is a bad person. You’ve not been able to rationally counter anything I said.

She was raised female. This is not a trans issue. It's a hormone in sporting events issue.

Semenya also described a period from 2010-15 where she reluctantly agreed to take testosterone-suppressing contraceptives recommended by the I.A.A.F. so she could keep running.

She said they caused significant weight gain, made her feel sick, and led to fevers and abdominal pain. She maintained the I.A.A.F. had used her as a “lab rat” as it experimented with a medical process it would later introduce as part of its testosterone rules. In a statement Tuesday, Semenya said, “I will not allow the I.A.A.F. to use me and my body again.”
That’s a public relations lie, he was raised male. That’s why his homophobic community is so accepting of his “lesbian” relationship.

Of course he doesn’t want to take hormone blockers, they will affect his health and his athletic advantage.
 
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I also want to add, trans activists: stop using intersex people as your "gotcha" trick. There is so much evidence debunking that and someone here has already asked multiple times to stop using them for your agenda.
 
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You are such a lovely mum and your children are lucky to have you. Fantastic woman.
Thank you, this means a lot ❤ Hasn't been easy at all. Holy tit it's been so hard. I could be so brutally honest about how hard it's been. But he's SO much happier since he came out a year ago. I've always called him a 'serious' kid but turns out he's not, he just wasn't happy. He's really come out of his shell and I've never seen him so happy. That's all that matters really. Everything else is just noise.
 
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Still ok?

Sharon Davies also speaks frankly and openly about the concerns of the trans women over shadowing female athletes.

Not fair but again not a good enough argument for those who are brain washed

Sod men who have a pen being upset because you don't fancy them. Are you honestly saying you feel sorry for them because you may reject them???

We are living in a dangerous patriarchy when a women is apologetic about not fancying men
I bleeping hate this dolt. She changed her name to Veronica Ivy so when you google her no bad articles come up. She is dangerous. Look at how she is built, no wonder she beats biological women in sports, it is vile. She is built like a MAN because she was born a man.

Look at the size of "her" compared to the women.
 

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If someone wants to grape a woman, they are going to do so almost always regardless of the setting or context. Allowing trans women to use the bathroom which matches their gender is not going to make men think differently or make them dress up in order to "trick" people. One person's doings do not speak for the entire community, especially given that anyone who would take advantage of a situation like that more likely than not is not in fact trans. grape does not discriminate; it does not care where you are, as I've sadly realised, but using that as your main reason for why trans women should not be allowed in women's bathrooms is harmful, assumptious, and is no better than the stigma that all gay men are predators. I can absolutely see your dilemma in regards to your trauma; I empathise with it a lot, and I wish I had a solution because my ideal scenario is that everyone is comfortable - which I know is too fantastical. But my problem lies with people who are using their bigotry towards trans people in general (bigotry that goes beyond just the bathroom discourse) to paint them as being inherently predatory or lesser because of their genitalia or transness.
I truly appreciate that you seem to have a very strong desire to see the good in people, but this part of your post is incorrect.

Yes, rapists will find a way to grape, regardless. However, Self ID makes it easier, and already dangerous, predatory men are taking advantage of this. It’s making it easier for them - it’s essentially just removing one more barrier for them.

I agree that you don’t tend to see genitals in the ladies loos. But it’s not just toilets - women-only hospital wards, domestic abuse refuges, changing rooms, women’s prisons. Those are areas where you may well see genitals, and they also have a large proportion of vulnerable women.

Again, it’s not bigotry to be concerned that predatory men may co-opt a trans persona to gain easier access to women, or to believe that some transpeople may be dangerous - this is already well documented, and examples have been given on the thread.
 
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I also want to add, trans activists: stop using intersex people as your "gotcha" trick. There is so much evidence debunking that and someone here has already asked multiple times to stop using them for your agenda.
No. You don’t want intersex people to be highlighted because it blows out your argument that gender identity isn’t real. Intersex people matter!!
 
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Thank you, this means a lot ❤ Hasn't been easy at all. Holy tit it's been so hard. I could be so brutally honest about how hard it's been. But he's SO much happier since he came out a year ago. I've always called him a 'serious' kid but turns out he's not, he just wasn't happy. He's really come out of his shell and I've never seen him so happy. That's all that matters really. Everything else is just noise.
As someone with a sibling who recently came out to me as trans, it calms me to know that there are loving parents out there like you who have navigated it so wonderfully and created safe, loving environments. From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for being the kind of parent the trans youth needs. It honestly means a lot.
 
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As someone with a sibling who recently came out to me as trans, it calms me to know that there are loving parents out there like you who have navigated it so wonderfully and created safe, loving environments. From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for being the kind of parent the trans youth needs. It honestly means a lot.
Just doing my job as Mum ❤❤
 
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I truly appreciate that you seem to have a very strong desire to see the good in people, but this part of your post is incorrect.

Yes, rapists will find a way to grape, regardless. However, Self ID makes it easier, and already dangerous, predatory men are taking advantage of this. It’s making it easier for them - it’s essentially just removing one more barrier for them.

I agree that you don’t tend to see genitals in the ladies loos. But it’s not just toilets - women-only hospital wards, domestic abuse refuges, changing rooms, women’s prisons. Those are areas where you may well see genitals, and they also have a large proportion of vulnerable women.

Again, it’s not bigotry to be concerned that predatory men may co-opt a trans persona to gain easier access to women, or to believe that some transpeople may be dangerous - this is already well documented, and examples have been given on the thread.
Making Toilets/refuges etc into a safe space for 'CIS' & transgender people I feel is quite important.
And is something that i'm sure a solution can be found.
 
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No. You don’t want intersex people to be highlighted because it blows out your argument that gender identity isn’t real. Intersex people matter!!
Yes, we know they do.

Please talk to some actual intersex people. They’ll probably be a lot less polite than I am - they’re sick of being used as a “gotcha” in an attempt to justify trans activists poorly constructed arguments.

Women who no longer menstruate or have had hysterectomies are also sick of being used this way. At least the ones I know are.

Making Toilets/refuges etc into a safe space for 'CIS' & transgender people I feel is quite important.
And is something that i'm sure a solution can be found.
For years, feminists have attempted to sit down and discuss it like adults with the trans activist crowd. They don’t want to know, they don’t want to agree a compromise, they just want to scream “transphobia” at any woman who dares mention that biological sex is real.
 
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No. You don’t want intersex people to be highlighted because it blows out your argument that gender identity isn’t real. Intersex people matter!!
Jfc, come the duck on. Of course they matter so that's why I'm saying this before they have to ask yet again. You are using them as a tool, I see them as people in their own right.
 
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If someone with gender dysphoria cannot transition they are highly likely to take their own life.

Stop perpetuating the damaging myth that trans people not able to transition kill themselves.

IT’S NOT TRUE.

Transitioning makes no difference to rates of suicide in the trans community, and while we’re at it, the suicide stats peddled by Mermaids et al are entirely falsified.
I'm not arguing, or saying it has any impact on statistics or rates, or that cases don't differ from person to person, but if I had shot down my son last year and told him he couldn't live as he felt, I'm almost certain I wouldn't have my son today, even as a daughter. He's told me himself in so many words. I didn't realise just how depressed he was.

So while I can't comment on the legitimacy of any stats, I can completely understand where the assumption originates from.
 
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