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suspecrobot

Active member
I’m a lesbian and I have no issues whatsoever with trans people. I do however have issues with men who still have penises and have no intention of undergoing genital surgery but still identify as women. Some insist that they should be allowed into women only spaces such as changing rooms and public toilets, and that if they go to prison they should go to a women’s prison. Several self-identified trans women have sexually assaulted or raped women prisoners whilst in jail.

They also believe that lesbians who won’t sleep with them are transphobic and have attacked and harassed women who don‘t agree with them.

These are the types that JK Rowling has issues with.
 
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Gym&Tonic

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You can call yourself whatever you like, I don’t care. But you can’t argue with biology. If you have a penis then you are not a woman.
 
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Pra09

Member
YES i would feel safe, there is no reason to feel threatened, tell me what could possibly happen? chances are you probably have already used a female toilet which a trans person has used as well and you didn’t even notice, people already judge them a lot for unfortunately being born in the wrong body and now they can’t even use their toilet because their body doesn’t match? (pretending a female born with a male body) that persons mentality is of the gender they truly are so i think the chances of your privacy being destroyed? is very low. Your telling me the safety of a toilet is based on the people who go in there? There are past criminals who have probably used a public toilet same time as you, should we ban all criminals and send them to a different toilet because perhaps they can’t be trusted? No.
For me it’s not just about toilets.

I, of course, do believe trans people have rights. I recognise they are a marginalised group. I believe that gender is a social construct.

i will also say this; women have difficulty entering public spaces. From catcalling, to being groped, to being abused - all of this behaviour stems from the public sphere historically being the Male domain, something that is still present in the psyche of people today. We have had to fight and negotiate for our place in this public sphere - to be able to walk down the street in a skirt and not have it be commented upon. To be able to walk alone at night. By virtue of being born with a specific set of genitalia, women have been removed from certain privileges. We continue to fight for these.

There is also the fact that, statistically, the vast vast majority of women have been sexually harassed or assaulted in the UK. I’d go so far to say that every single woman in the U.K. has experienced a form of harassment or assault at some point, ranging from unwanted advances in a pub, to someone grabbing your bum, to full on attacks. It is prevalent. I include myself among this statistic, as does JK.

I also do not see trans women as being a threat or as being perpetrators of this abuse at all. Most I’ve known are gentle souls with more empathy than most. This isn’t about these people being abusive.

for me the issue is this; women have carefully negotiated their place in the public sphere. If we - as a society - deem any people who are biologically Male AND decide they identify as the gender female, should have access to these spaces, it removes arenas that have been ringfenced for biological/cis women and it opens our public spheres to anyone who claims they are a woman. It’s opens our protected rights and spaces to exploitation.

we have had the vote for just a hundred years, compared to thousands of years of oppression. Until relatively recently, a woman was property of her male relatives or husband with few legal rights. It is mind numbing, just how recent this state of affairs was.

it isn’t about if I mind a trans woman in a bathroom; it’s about minding if a trans woman can use female only gym areas, women’s only swimming sessions, designated women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s domestic abuse facilities, women’s health facilities and so on.

in worst case scenarios, women who have been subject to abuse from men (I volunteered in a charity supporting these women) sometimes find they cannot feel safe or secure in the presence of men. To state that any biological Male should have access to these women’s spaces based on their gender identity alone, is an idea worthy of discussion at the very least. No one should have TERF yelled at them over it.
 
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PinkBogeyBreath

Chatty Member
I think transphobic is too strong a word for how a lot of women are feeling. I’m happy to be polite and use female pronouns for someone who feels they are a woman despite biologically not being one. I’m happy to pretend I can’t see the stubble or the wig or the ill fitting clothes on the people who do not pass well. Why would I want to hurt someone who is clearly mentally unwell?

But there’s a line to be drawn when women are losing their rights. When women can’t compete in sports without biologically male people being allowed to join in. When women can’t use a changing room knowing there are no penises present. When women can’t access a rape support group because visibly biological males are allowed to attend. When lesbians are called TERFs for not wanting to have sex with a penis.

JK might be a shit stirrer but at least there’s someone publicly saying the things a lot of women are thinking.
 
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suspecrobot

Active member
See, I see things as the other way around. TRAs constantly scream about genitals. They demand to know if a straight woman is only attracted to a penis, or a lesbian only attracted to a vagina. Genitals are not the only part of the make up of someone's sex. Your entire physical makeup is what makes you a woman or a man, not liking makeup or high heels or any of that other superficial bullshit. Trans people are the ultimate "victims" screaming yet again that everyone wants them dead, calling women disgusting vulgar names. The aggression you see them spout towards women (never men) is appalling. As soon as someone challenges a TRA, THEY victimise THEMSELVES. Nobody wants them dead, just not everyone wants to go along with their delusions and for some reason they think they're the same thing.

I also don't get the term TERF because believing some men are just as much women as biological women is faaaar more radical then believing the opposite.
The trans sense of entitlement really reminds me of er...male entitlement actually. Entitled to women’s spaces and women’s bodies.

Fuck off with that shit.
 
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bubbletea123

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Also, she isn't wrong because biologically it is women who get periods, not "people." You can't argue science. The people that are, are extreme.
 
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Scotch Mist

VIP Member
The extreme trans activists like to bully women who don't agree with their views and aren't really doing themselves any favours.

It's typical these days to accuse people of 'hate' just because they don't agree with someone else's opinion. It's very aggressive and JK hasn't said at any time that people can't identify and live their lives as they choose.

Women have the right to say that biological sex isn't an illusion. I've also noticed that women who have transitioned to men don't appear to be as aggressive in their insistence that everyone should fall in line with their views.
 
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suspecrobot

Active member
There is quite a divide in the gay community about trans people. The thing I object to is that under current law any man can say that he identifies as a woman, and demand to be allowed in women only spaces. How can that be right?

Women only spaces are there to protect women from the potential threat of male sexual violence in circumstances where they might feel vulnerable. Being partly clothed in a changing room for example, or in locker room showers. How many women on here feel comfortable with 100% biological males (because that’s what some of them are) in those conditions?
 
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emmer_moans

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Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

I beleive that anyone who wants to transition, can, and should, but I do object to womens' safe spaces being compromised by the few people who happen to have male sex organs and in some cases aggressively insist on doing so. Misogyny is real and is very hateful. I think going forward public buildings need to have more single stall unisex toilets facilities alongside male only or female only facilities so that every one can have a choice they deem safe. I do not hate anyone for what gender they perceive themselves, but I want a womens only toilet. But if I said this on Twitter there would be an onslaught. Women should be able to keep the spaces such as single sex changing facilities. It seems on twitter you can't have mutually reasonable and open discussions. If you don't pander to the activist party line then apparently you are evil in their eyes for saying something like "I feel safer in single sex toilet".

Personally, I will always use peoples' preferred pronouns, I will respect peoples' right to dress and present however they wish. I would petition for adjacently available single stall unisex toilet facilities for the comfort and safety of all. But I would also expect people fo undersrand that for many women, single sex couselling groups, changing rooms, hospital wards etc should not be given up. From the dawn of time women have typically been physically smaller in build and disenfranchised compared to males. Many women can feel inherently unsafe in public situations. I hate that a lot of activists disregard any legitimate fears women might have, without actually listening and empathising.

I am not homophobic and I empathise that life must very hard for non binary and trans people too. It is a very sensitive topic and I wish everyone would be calmer and dicsuss kindly. Perhaps one day soon we can come to an acceptible way of providing safe spaces for everyone, not at anyones' expense.

TLDR; it is in my view possible to agree with JK Rowling whilst being emapthetic to all, including trans people. Women should not lose their identity in the process, or safe spaces, but society must move forward and consider how to provide for everyone. Compassion for all sides, and not misogyny, is needed.
 
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bubbletea123

VIP Member
I’m a lesbian and I have no issues whatsoever with trans people. I do however have issues with men who still have penises and have no intention of undergoing genital surgery but still identify as women. Some insist that they should be allowed into women only spaces such as changing rooms and public toilets, and that if they go to prison they should go to a women’s prison. Several self-identified trans women have sexually assaulted or raped women prisoners whilst in jail.

They also believe that lesbians who won’t sleep with them are transphobic and have attacked and harassed women who don‘t agree with them.

These are the types that JK Rowling has issues with.
Those are also the type I have issues with... And also men transitioning to women believing they should be allowed to compete in the woman's section of sports. I disagree with that a lot because they are built so differently genetically. Just because they've transitioned, doesn't take away the fact that their body is built so much stronger, etc.
 
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Bitofthebubbly

VIP Member
Love JK Rowling for fighting the fight ✊
Me too. It absolutely needed to be said. I know some people think this has come out of nowhere and that she’s stirring the pot, but that’s not the case at all. Women have been asking to be heard on this matter for at least five years now to no avail (I say that as that’s when I started hearing about it all). This is not an ‘attack’. It’s is a request that women’s rights and spaces are not put at risk. Anyone who thinks her statement is hateful obviously hasn’t read it properly or at all.

As for why, well why shouldn’t she be allowed to air her views? She’s a grown woman. She hasn’t said anything hateful or used derogatory language. A pr team can’t stop her from posting what she likes on her own social media account, she pays them, not the other way round.
 
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jewelkitty

Chatty Member
She is awfully focused on what genitals people have in their pants and what people choose to identify as. She loves to victimise herself the moment trans people choose to challenge her. I've had trans friends who were big supporters of her feel utterly invalidated and isolated by her words. She's a TERF. Simple as.
See, I see things as the other way around. TRAs constantly scream about genitals. They demand to know if a straight woman is only attracted to a penis, or a lesbian only attracted to a vagina. Genitals are not the only part of the make up of someone's sex. Your entire physical makeup is what makes you a woman or a man, not liking makeup or high heels or any of that other superficial bullshit. Trans people are the ultimate "victims" screaming yet again that everyone wants them dead, calling women disgusting vulgar names. The aggression you see them spout towards women (never men) is appalling. As soon as someone challenges a TRA, THEY victimise THEMSELVES. Nobody wants them dead, just not everyone wants to go along with their delusions and for some reason they think they're the same thing.

I also don't get the term TERF because believing some men are just as much women as biological women is faaaar more radical then believing the opposite.
 
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Inforapenny

Chatty Member
Men who transition to be 'women' will never menstruate, have a womb, have overies, have a cervix ....need I go on.
When the trans movement are offended by women speaking the very basic biology truth we have a problem.
No medical doctor is going to disagree with the above statement. Now I'd rather be treated by a medically trained doctor who understands the human anatomy than a so quack interested in the metaphysics of gender and sex and making sure men who have gender dysphoria feel comfortable.

Really many trans women (men) are misogyny personified. They have ridiculous notions about what it is to be and look like a woman. And there seems to be a sinister movement of men (who have a things for trans) using the idea of a TERF to display vile misogyny whilst sleeping with men (dressed as women).
It's such a fucked up way of men yet again keeping women down
 
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jewelkitty

Chatty Member
Imo she was sticking up for women, who are now being reduced to 'people with uteruses' and 'people who menstruate.' We've come so far and this shit is setting us back.
People are going on about trans people's feelings but they are some of the most vicious and violent people I've seen online.
 
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Basicbasic

VIP Member
The trans lobby is inherently anti women. Look at the comments on this thread. If they were supportive of gays and lesbians why have they alienated lesbians by arguing that they are homophobic for refusing to sleep with trans women. Leave women alone. Leave us be. And stop calling us cis. We are not a sub set of woman. We are women. Not cis, not bleeders, not menstruators, not cervix holders. Women. Adult female human. Woman.
 
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Bitofthebubbly

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Now some parts of the Harry Potter fandom are calling for Daniel Radcliffe to be named author of the Harry Potter series.

That’s not just plagerism that’s fucking insulting. What ever her views, she wrote those books. Nothing will ever change that. How many male authors over the years have been complete weirdos or have even done bad shit themselves, no ones calling for their names to be taken off their work.
 
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A place to discuss the author, JK Rowling.

I just wanted to say how brave I think she is posting tweets saying she believes sex is real. I am aware that as a rich, white author she doesn't have a lot to lose, but still.
 
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Glaschelle

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I'm a bit late to the thread, but if have to say I've found it very informative and interesting and apart from some name calling, at least there is debate.

I was appalled at the abuse JK got on Twitter. There's no debate, no dialogue, just she's a homophobic TERF!!!

That's the thing that's really bothering me - there's no debate - it's just shut up and f*** off.

I think we all agree that everybody should live how they wish, dress how they wish and be addressed how they wish. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with the erosion of female only spaces and would like some discussion about this issue.

I'm particularly worried about kids and the fact that nobody nowadays seems to be allowed to be 'odd'. As a child, I wasn't particular feminine, was a bit of tomboy and because of family dynamics always felt like an outsider. Now, 40 years on, I love pink and glitter but also love my football team and am rarely out of jeans/trousers. In terms of gender stereotypes, I'm still odd. Or unique!!!

I found the interview with Rachel Doelzal really interesting and thought provoking. I do wonder if her idea that race is a social concept will pick up followers. Because I can see the parallels between this and gender concepts.

As i said, I've found this a really interesting thread and even if I don't agree with people, they have the right to state their point of view. Just wish they would also let JK express her point of view.
 
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LittleMy

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She should be allowed to post whatever she wants as long as it’s not hate speech (which it wasn’t despite what people are saying), it’s her Twitter. The backlash of abuse she has received for it is disgusting imo. Far worse than anything she’s ever tweeted.
 
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Lanavalentine

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That has nothing to do with transgender rights? also that happens regardless of gender and sexuality.
with respect, I think you have missed the point here.

The majority of transgender women retain their male genitalia. So, the point is, people with penises will be using female spaces - not just toilets (which aren’t really the issue) but open changing rooms, women’s only wards in hospitals, women’s prisons, domestic abuse shelters etc. The fact is that there will be vulnerable women, victims of rape and abuse, who will have significant trauma, and should not be forced to share these spaces with people with penises, just because those people feel like women.

It’s a further problem when you realise that most transgender ideology and charities now believe that transgender does not mean you have gender dysphoria or even have to attempt to present as the opposite sex. If you say you are, you are. So a bearded, male-looking person can say he’s a woman and that’s that. Isn’t that troubling?

Then we get to the fact that self ID laws and this idea of “everyone is what they say they are” can be exploited by male predators. It is being exploited already, there are numerous examples of this. This is without getting into the fact that some transwomen (emphasis on some) are predators themselves. Plenty of examples out there.
 
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