J. K. Rowling

[vikka]

Gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness. However if it were why is that a problem and why should the mentally ill be denigrated?

Gender dysphoria is a condition of extreme distress when there is a disconnect between ones physical sex and ones gender identity. The medical treatment for this is to allow the person to transition, however far they themself deem appropriate.

If someone with gender dysphoria cannot transition they are highly likely to take their own life.

If any person with bad intentions wanted to compromise a “woman’s space” all they need do is walk through the door. There’s no magic shield. We have respect one another as human beings and keep each other safe.

If it is a mental illness, isn't it more humane to seek psychological treatment and find the root casue for it than to allow people to chop off their genitals?
We don't allow people to cut themselves, there are legititimately people who want their leg or hand or foot chopped off, we send them to get psychological help and docs refuse to cut off their limbs, why is then ok for people who "feel" they are in the wrong body to take hormones (which can do other damage than the obvious, like blood clots and more), wreak havoc on their body irreversibly and chop off their perfectly fine genitals?

People ask questions, have concerns, bring up cases and mention the fact that study is actively squashed into these matters, and are for that labelled "haters", "phobic" and whatnot. I don't get it.

There are cases of people who transition, are still deeply unhappy, are unhappy with the reality of what it is to be a woman (the upkeep, the feminine issues natural born women face etc etc) and transition back.

We say people who go for excessive plastic surgery are mentally ill and that's fine to say, but to say that maybe trans people are mentally isn't?

It's part of the process of understanding and if there's eventually a cure, why not allow these ideas and see where that takes us?
No one here, from what I've read, wants to suppress transpeople and no one wants to forbid men wearing skirts.

The fact that children allowed to take hormones to transition is insane. How many girls are tomboys or boys like "girl" things etc etc and "grow out" of it? But these days, these kids are instantly "gay" or "trans", get a handful of pills "to feel like themselves" (isn't that mental illness??) and are scheduled for transition surgery.

The lawsuits, psychological scarring, suicide rates and whatnot in 10-40 years will be a sight to behold.

And the "trans" people who will say and cry "why did you allow this to us? Children to make these decisions? Why didn't the adults protect us" will lead another social change and we will look back at these barbaric times and the fact that educational institutions don't allow any study and the PC brigade just wants everyone to nod and say "yes" to any idea that comes is just insane.

If someone feels they are in the wrong body, they dress like the opposite sex, wear makeup etc etc, I have no problem with that. But surgery should seriously be off-limits, I knew of the problems MtF faced with their fake vaginas, but wasn't quite as aware until I read the post above somewhere. Anyone who allows for these surgeries needs their head examined. Seriously, this over-reach of the movement, incl the surgeries and esp allowing kids to transition, will be a massive scandal in a few decades, when the chickens come home to roost, there'll be massive backlash and problems of unprecedented scale.

 

[Basicbasic]

It’s a bloody bike ride. All cyclists can duck for all I’m concerned.

It's not just a bike ride for the women who have trained all their lives, it's not just a toilet to women who have fought for safe spaces, it's not just a salon if it's clearly labelled a female only waxing salon, it's not just a grape crisis centre for women fleeing grape by men. Do you understand???

 

[Zenchick101]

My son is trans (FTM) and thankfully we've not really had any huge hiccups in terms of his acceptance. His friends are great, our family are great. His bio dad... not so great, but he's not in his life anyway. He finds it hard that there are some 'activists' out there that ARE taking it too far. He couldn't give a rats ass about a lot of the issues being brought up by these people. The phrase 'women menstrate' doesn't bother HIM but he says he knows others that it does bother. but he thinks there's bigger fish to try.

Anyway re: the bathrooms. He looks like a boy, but he does opt for unisex bathrooms if there is one. If not, he will go to the women's bathroom because he worries what people would say if he uses the mens. Personally I don't think anyone would even notice but it's his choice. He'll go in the mens if he's with his brothers but otherwise he goes in the female. It doesn't bother him that much right now if he really needs the bathroom, but he usually tries to avoid going in public to save the hassle of trying to decide. Does he go into the male and risk people calling him out for not being a cismale? Or does he go into the female and risk being called a boy?

I think unisex bathrooms are a useful solution for that dilemma (alongside a female/male bathroom, not instead of) but I also don't really personally see the issue with letting transwomen use female bathrooms, and vice versa. But obviously I have factors that could make that opinion biased.

This is really informative and insightful, and thanks for not being automatically agressive towards people who aren't informed enough perhaps. You're a peach.

 

[Lanavalentine]

It’s a bloody bike ride. All cyclists can duck for all I’m concerned.

what a mature attitude that really helps promote the idea of competitive sports for girls and women, you know, something the patriarchy has tried to force them away from, even though it can provide amazing health benefits, improved self esteem and a sense of belonging?

I read a statistic recently which said the average teenage boy can beat the world’s fastest women in sprint competitions. So yes, let’s allow anyone who identifies as a woman, who has gone through male puberty and has a male body with it’s stronger attributes, to demolish women’s records.

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[Alfies_Boy]

My son is trans (FTM) and thankfully we've not really had any huge hiccups in terms of his acceptance. His friends are great, our family are great. His bio dad... not so great, but he's not in his life anyway. He finds it hard that there are some 'activists' out there that ARE taking it too far. He couldn't give a rats ass about a lot of the issues being brought up by these people. The phrase 'women menstrate' doesn't bother HIM but he says he knows others that it does bother. but he thinks there's bigger fish to try.

Anyway re: the bathrooms. He looks like a boy, but he does opt for unisex bathrooms if there is one. If not, he will go to the women's bathroom because he worries what people would say if he uses the mens. Personally I don't think anyone would even notice but it's his choice. He'll go in the mens if he's with his brothers but otherwise he goes in the female. It doesn't bother him that much right now if he really needs the bathroom, but he usually tries to avoid going in public to save the hassle of trying to decide. Does he go into the male and risk people calling him out for not being a cismale? Or does he go into the female and risk being called a boy?

I think unisex bathrooms are a useful solution for that dilemma (alongside a female/male bathroom, not instead of) but I also don't really personally see the issue with letting transwomen use female bathrooms, and vice versa. But obviously I have factors that could make that opinion biased.

You are such a lovely mum and your children are lucky to have you. Fantastic woman.

 

[DoreenYadeley]

The trans lobby is inherently anti women. Look at the comments on this thread. If they were supportive of gays and lesbians why have they alienated lesbians by arguing that they are homophobic for refusing to sleep with trans women. Leave women alone. Leave us be. And stop calling us cis. We are not a sub set of woman. We are women. Not cis, not bleeders, not menstruators, not cervix holders. Women. Adult female human. Woman.

Posey Parker hello there! Didn't know you were clogging up the tattle algorithm with your hateful bull as well as YouTube

 

[Basicbasic]

I can't even look beyond the use of narrow-minded given that you and everyone else in this thread is the epitome of it. I am a lesbian with trauma from grape and while I absolutely agree that not every person is going to be equipped to wax some balls or whatever else it might be, I can also recognise that it's a fairly... ridiculous argument to fight against trans rights and the existence of trans people. And that is where my issue lies. Because there is always a loophole with you guys, a reason why trans people shouldn't get to exist peacefully for the sake of the comfort of a few bigots who grasp at straws and pick out potential isolated incidents that could happen with cis men, etc.

Yaniv is an isolated incident that this thread is using to tar the entire trans community with. My own sexual trauma would never allow me to be with someone who has a pen - and aside from that, I am not attracted to them. I know that may upset some trans people; I know that will have me be painted a certain way by some, but that doesn't stop me from caring about trans people being afforded the same rights and respect as everyone else because I care deeply about making sure these people are helped, understood and protected from the horrible statistics that sit heavy in their existence.

Still waiting for a response to my question below:

Its women like us who are fighting to protect women like you from further trauma! The trans lobby have vilified lesbians and argued that they are inhumane for not sleeping with trans women. You say you wouldn't be able to sleep with a teams woman, surely you can understand the anger from lesbians who are being told they are homophobic for rejecting pen? And just like you don't want to sleep with a trans woman due to previous trauma, I don't want to share toilet with a trans woman due to previous trauma. Why is your trauma valid and mine bigotry?

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

I can't even look beyond the use of narrow-minded given that you and everyone else in this thread is the epitome of it. I am a lesbian with trauma from grape and while I absolutely agree that not every person is going to be equipped to wax some balls or whatever else it might be, I can also recognise that it's a fairly... ridiculous argument to fight against trans rights and the existence of trans people. And that is where my issue lies. Because there is always a loophole with you guys, a reason why trans people shouldn't get to exist peacefully for the sake of the comfort of a few bigots who grasp at straws and pick out potential isolated incidents that could happen with cis men, etc.

Yaniv is an isolated incident that this thread is using to tar the entire trans community with. My own sexual trauma would never allow me to be with someone who has a pen - and aside from that, I am not attracted to them. I know that may upset some trans people; I know that will have me be painted a certain way by some, but that doesn't stop me from caring about trans people being afforded the same rights and respect as everyone else because I care deeply about making sure these people are helped, understood and protected from the horrible statistics that sit heavy in their existence.

What is this melodramatic tit about not wanting transwomen to exist? Do we just say our words, and they disappear into the ether in a puff of smoke?

They can do what the duck they want. Just keep their male bodies and male pattern criminality AWAY from women and children.

Yaniv is NOT an isolated incident. That is an utter lie. There is an entire subreddit, r/thisneverhappens , dedicated to recording such crimes.

One that springs to mind is Karen White, a convicted bepenised rapist and paedophile who was put in a women’s prison, and who, surprise surprise, sexually assaulted his fellow inmates.

Another is teenage transgenderist Katie Dolatowski, who attempted to sexually assault a 10 year old girl in a women’s public toilet.

 

[Basicbasic]

Posey Parker hello there! Didn't know you were clogging up the tattle algorithm with your hateful bull as well as YouTube

Never heard of her. You obviously can't get over the fact that millions of women across the world are in support of women's rights.

 

[Barb]

This is such a lazy lazy lazy poorly educated response. Let me guess you've never considered women's rights or safety....in fact you're brain washed.
How can womens' rights be compared to being homophobic? How have you managed to even bother with such a tangent comparison.
Many gay and lesbian men and women are fed up just like heterosexual Men and women with the 'woke' ridiculousness.
James Dreyfus and Boy George are 2 gay men how have put their head above the parapet.

As for this being an echo chamber. Has it ready got to this that in 2020 women discussing women's rights is slated and laughed at (I'm assuming by other women).

*have

*really

I assume you mean me at the end there. No slating or laughing. Sighing and eye rolling maybe.

Redirect Notice

Still ok?

Sharon Davies also speaks frankly and openly about the concerns of the trans women over shadowing female athletes.

Not fair but again not a good enough argument for those who are brain washed

Sod men who have a pen being upset because you don't fancy them. Are you honestly saying you feel sorry for them because you may reject them???

We are living in a dangerous patriarchy when a women is apologetic about not fancying men

Verifying Device

Yet Caster is subject to years of test and hormone therapy suggested if she wants to continue competing. The whole world of sport needs to make up their mind. This is not a trans issue.

 

[Lanavalentine]

What is this melodramatic tit about not wanting transwomen to exist? Do we just say our words, and they disappear into the ether in a puff of smoke?

They can do what the duck they want. Just keep their male bodies and male pattern criminality AWAY from women and children.

Yaniv is NOT an isolated incident. That is an utter lie. There is an entire subreddit, r/thisneverhappens , dedicated to recording such crimes.

One that springs to mind is Karen White, a convicted bepenised rapist and paedophile who was put in a women’s prison, and who, surprise surprise, sexually assaulted his fellow inmates.

Another is teenage transgenderist Katie Dolatowski, who attempted to sexually assault a 10 year old girl in a women’s public toilet.

and what about the pedophile in the news at the moment, who transitioned in prison and was allowed to be released as he assured everyone that now he is a woman, he is much less likely to grape little boys?

I wish all the women who think we’re the dangerous and twisted ones would wake up and see we’re trying to protect ourselves, our daughters, our mothers, our sisters, our children... and you!

 

[DoreenYadeley]

Never heard of her. You obviously can't get over the fact that millions of women across the world are in support of women's rights.

Funny as you use the exact same catchphrases and words she uses...

I can't get over the fact that millions of women are vile and hateful transphobes.

#translivesmatter

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

This is really informative and insightful, and thanks for not being automatically agressive towards people who aren't informed enough perhaps. You're a peach.

How patronising. You clearly think you are more intelligent and educated than people with the opposite opinion.

Here’s a fact for you: almost all of us who are critical of the transgender movement were once champions of them. We automatically supported them as compassionate and responsible left-wingers. It was only educating ourselves and looking beyond propaganda that changed our minds.

 

[Alfies_Boy]

The idea that trans people live their entire existence to fill a sexual fetish is utterly diabolical. Just like the idea that trans people have a paedophilic agenda. Again this was said about gay men for centuries. It’s just a way to use your own children to weave an insidious narrative around marginalised groups who don’t conform to your traditional values.

 

[vikka]

Funny as you use the exact same catchphrases and words she uses...

I can't get over the fact that millions of women are vile and hateful transphobes.

#translivesmatter

If that isn't a gross and crass over-simplification of the issues, questions and opinions rather eloquently laid out in this thread and beyond, then I don't know what is.

 

[DoreenYadeley]

How patronising. You clearly think you are more intelligent and educated than people with the opposite opinion.

Here’s a fact for you: almost all of us who are critical of the transgender movement were once champions of them. We automatically supported them as compassionate and responsible left-wingers. It was only educating ourselves and looking beyond propaganda that changed our minds.

And now you're spouting propaganda and hate speech of your own under the guise of feminism...

If that isn't a gross and crass over-simplification of the issues, questions and opinions rather eloquently laid out in this thread and beyond, then I don't know what is.

All I see in this thread is hate and bigotry. People obsessed and consumed with hatred for trans people simply because they are trans.

The posts are filled with belittling and crass and gross comments about trans people their lives and bodies. Every single bigoted comment over simplifies the trans experience by making light of people's lives and existence.

You all claim to care and are full of compassion... but it is entirely self serving. It's only about issues which concern yourselves.

 

[Zenchick101]

How patronising. You clearly think you are more intelligent and educated than people with the opposite opinion.

Here’s a fact for you: almost all of us who are critical of the transgender movement were once champions of them. We automatically supported them as compassionate and responsible left-wingers. It was only educating ourselves and looking beyond propaganda that changed our minds.

think you misunderstood the tone of my post - I was trying to be respectfull and referring to the fact that I got called a bigot for asking questions on a subject I'm not an expert in and that perhaps I wasn't the only one in that situation. English isn't my first language so maybe I should have rephrased that - no need to be rude.

 

[Lanavalentine]

The idea that trans people live their entire existence to fill a sexual fetish is utterly diabolical. Just like the idea that trans people have a paedophilic agenda. Again this was said about gay men for centuries. It’s just a way to use your own children to weave an insidious narrative around marginalised groups who don’t conform to your traditional values.

Nobody said every trans person has a pedophilic agenda, that’s yet another claim that has been stretched from a kernel of truth by you. However, some pedophiles are using the trans agenda to help break down safeguarding. One is in the news at the moment.

By the way, are you going to address any of the numerous points and questions posed to you, or just continue to switch lanes and twist what people have actually posted?

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Funny as you use the exact same catchphrases and words she uses...

I can't get over the fact that millions of women are vile and hateful transphobes.
That's a it boils down to.

#translivesmatter

Lol you can’t get over how unpopular this nonsense is with 99% of the world’s population.

as for #translivesmatter, did you know that they actually have lower murder rates than average? The only transwomen likely to get killed are those who work as prostitutes.

Verifying Device

Yet Caster is subject to years of test and hormone therapy suggested if she wants to continue competing. The whole world of sport needs to make up their mind. This is not a trans issue.

Caster Semenya is a male. HE was just born without a pen due to androgen insensitivity. Allegedly he was brought up male, and knew of the truth, but invented a female backstory so his mediocre male self could wipe the floor with women.

It is despicable that all three medalists in the Women’s 800m at the Rio Olympics were biological males.

They should rely on genetics tests for Y chromosomes to get rid of these cheats.

 

[Alfies_Boy]

And now you're spouting propaganda and hate speech of your own under the guise of feminism...



All I see in this thread is hate and bigotry. People obsessed and consumed with hatred for trans people simply because they are trans.

The posts are filled with belittling and crass and gross comments about trans people their lives and bodies. Every single bigoted comment over simplifies the trans experience by making light of people's lives and existence.

You all claim to care and are full of compassion... but it is entirely self serving. It's only about issues which concern yourselves.

Because they championed trans rights until trans people got a little too equal. Then it’s not ok.

Humans will happily live with other minority humans but only when that minority stays a minority and stays in their place. If things get too much, out comes the vitriol.