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Basicbasic

VIP Member
It’s a bloody bike ride. All cyclists can fuck for all I’m concerned.
It's not just a bike ride for the women who have trained all their lives, it's not just a toilet to women who have fought for safe spaces, it's not just a salon if it's clearly labelled a female only waxing salon, it's not just a rape crisis centre for women fleeing rape by men. Do you understand???
 
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SqualorVictoria

VIP Member
YES i would feel safe, there is no reason to feel threatened, tell me what could possibly happen? chances are you probably have already used a female toilet which a trans person has used as well and you didn’t even notice, people already judge them a lot for unfortunately being born in the wrong body and now they can’t even use their toilet because their body doesn’t match? (pretending a female born with a male body) that persons mentality is of the gender they truly are so i think the chances of your privacy being destroyed? is very low. Your telling me the safety of a toilet is based on the people who go in there? There are past criminals who have probably used a public toilet same time as you, should we ban all criminals and send them to a different toilet because perhaps they can’t be trusted? No.
Personally the toilet issue isn't what bothers me the most. What bothers me is the right to be seen as the exact same as women, new words like cis female, essentially denoting women to subcategories of their own gender, the insistence that trans women are the exact same as women. They're not. We cant even say that women have periods now as women has become a word that doesn't belong to us women anymore.

In relation to the bathroom issue also, not all trans people experience gender dysphoria. As mentioned here, there are men who fetishise being a woman and they're insisting they be allowed into our private spaces.
 
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ShowMeYourFeline

Chatty Member
Will not be putting any money in JK Rowling’s pocket from now on. She is transphobic.

The sad thing as well is that she’s using her platform of over 14 million followers to be dismissive of autistic and trans people. She could be sharing resources to support black lives matter. That’s a choice she’s made and it says a lot.

I don’t want be arguing on here with anyone but these threads are becoming an echo chamber for JKR supporters and not a healthy discussion at all. Giving trans women rights does not take away from women’s rights. There’s not a limited number of rights to go around.

Trans women aren’t welcome in the women’s bathroom? So you expect them to use the men’s? Do you think they will be welcome there either? Do you think they would feel safe? They would be vulnerable to violence themselves if a trans woman presenting as a woman went in the men’s. What it boils down to is that trans women just aren’t welcome. Full stop. That’s transphobia. Trans women are not a danger to women. They just want to use the loo.

Remember, black people weren’t allowed to use white people’s facilities due to segregation and people not feeling safe around black people because of the narrative that black people are dangerous and less than. That’s racism. Apply it to transgender people and it’s transphobia.

Yes you’re allowed your opinions and you can die on your hills saying it’s for women’s rights but in the end you’re still transphobic. JKR is using her platform to fuel hatred towards trans people and say it’s in the name of women’s rights. Trans and non binary people are hurt by it. They should be allowed to live their lives the way they feel comfortable and feel safe doing so.
Trans women’s rights are directly taking away women’s rights.

The entire reason that women’s spaces are separate from men’s is that men are a risk to women. This risk is due to male-bodied strength relative to females, and male pattern criminality.

Since transwomen retain both male-bodied strength and the same tendency to commit male-pattern criminality, admitting transwomen into women’s safe spaces is the same risk as admitting men into these spaces. It is therefore the same as taking away women’s right to safe spaces.

This is proven by the fact that transwomen make up 0.5% of women’s prison oppositions but commit 11% of rapes. This number is conservative because transwomen with gender recognition certificates are counted as female.

As for transwomen being unwelcome in male toilets due to the threat of male violence, firstly there is no evidence that this is the case, unlike the countless crimes committed by transwomen in women’s toilets. Drag queens have been using men’s toilets for decades with few issues.

Men should be educated to not attack violent males in different clothing. Women's and children’s safety should not be sacrificed for issues that are not our fault.

Black women have spoken up about historic US toilet segregation being compared trans women’s invasive demands. You are an ignorant racist. Firstly it is racist because you are comparing black women to biological males, and because you are misrepresenting their historic struggles to use them as props in arguments.

Secondly it’s not a valid comparison; blacks were segregated in many areas of life including even water fountains and bus seats, not just private safe spaces. The toilets were extensions of general segregation, not due to particular concerns about black womens’ anatomy, strength, or sex crime risk, as you imply with these irrelevant comparisons.

Please state exactly what JK Rowling has said that “fuels hatred”.

My last thought is that it’s ironic that you are accusing this thread of being an “echo chamber”, when you are so enraged by JK Rowling gentle disagreeing with an echo chamber, that you want to boycott her.

A very good question and thanks for asking it. It has certainly given me pause for thought and made me realise that I too was probably one of those people that was divisive and instantly branded someone (in my head) a certain way if they didn't vote the way I thought they should. It has been an eye opener to be honest, and has made me more than a little ashamed. I'm still happy about the outcomes of both but yes I should not have dismissed people so easily
Thank you for your honest and thoughtful response :)

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.
SJWs have successfully ostracised and driven off everyone they disagree with on social media, but have less success in real life. Their online success at ostracism has made them power-hungry and have an unrealistic view of the real world.
 
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Inforapenny

Chatty Member
We are being silenced. It's scary. I have a couple of friends who debate and all agree the men pushing trans rights is ridiculous.
I would never express my views in public or at work. I would be suspended and sacked. I work at Oxbridge (too scared to say which one) and the training I was given....if a person aka man identifies as a woman they can use our spaces ie toilets/showers

So where are my rights and dignity?
Lots of these facilities have now become unisex just to appease a few men who think they are women.

lots of funding has been stopped for research into gender dysphoria and those regretting transitioning
 
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Scotch Mist

VIP Member
Don't you just love a man telling women they must accept trans women.
Daniel Radcliffe joins the ranks of Owen Jones now.
Yes I agree. I'm sick of men telling women that trans women are women when they are biologically not women. They can all fuck off with their bloody male entitlement. This is disguised female oppression all over again.

And how dare he apologise for her, the fucking arrogance of it. He wouldn't be anywhere if it wasn't for her!
 
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Inforapenny

Chatty Member
Biological sex isn't binary either. It's not xy or xx, there can be all sorts of combinations, xxy, xyy, x etc alll of which can result in a variety of sex characteristics,. So saying all those that menstruate are women is very ignorant

And reading back through the comments can people please stop saying gender dysphoria is a mental illness. It makes it sound as though a few pills and some counselling is all that is needed. It can be the cause of mental health issues
On rare occasions you get hermaphrodites. It is rare and has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

Why? How can you possibly be ok with men and women wanting to disfigure their healthy bodies? It is mental illness to want to be castrated or to have your breasts removed.

Many trans people have severe mental illnesses. Why shouldn't this be talked about?

As someone who has struggled with eating disorders it is not ok to sit back and indulge it or encourage me to not eat. It's also fucked up to say it's not a mental illness simply so it doesn't offend me...jeez

May I add that the trans narrative has escalated so far BECAUSE it is men peddling their (male) rights and voice....and of course men get the exposure, air time, rights blah blah blah
Ultimately if you unpick the obvious it's men fighting for their rights.
 
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tbf theres no point arguing with transphobic people as same as racists its unlikely they'll change their view.
Instead of having a go at us Pixxy - why dont you tell us why you think female people DONT deserve single-sex spaces? and single-sex sports teams? and any other single sex exemptions (like scholarships etc). Maybe then we will understand your perspective.
 
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bubbletea123

VIP Member
I just read her essay and wow, beautifully written and she explained her thoughts very well. She is not transphobic.
 
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LittleMy

VIP Member
Thanks for reducing us to a bodily function, The Body Shop. Shall we just call all people with a penis “Ejaculators”?

Fs. Stop the world, I want to get off... 🙄
 
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Lanavalentine

VIP Member
But that's exactly what you want, because in your mind, trans women are men.

Anyway, I'll be honest, I'm scared of so much hatred (masked as fear and concern) from typical Karens who think they're fighting a feminist fight. I fully disagree with all of you and will now, genuinely, leave you to celebrate yourself and Rowling. Carry on.
Why are you just calling us Karens and not engaging with what we’ve said?

This is always the pattern. Someone runs around screaming that we’re full of hate, can’t pinpoint why, and doesn’t actually engage with any points made.

It’s the same on every forum!

I’m so up for having a respectful discussion about this but none of the “you’re full of hate” brigade ever engage.
 
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Inforapenny

Chatty Member
Why is it ALWAYS women having to mop up and deal with a trans issue?
Why are trans women and their advocates not imploring men to do more?
Why don't they fight for MEN to create trans toilets and showers?
Because it's not about brow beating men is it? It's about stamping on the most silenced , vulnerable group in society because it's easy and no one will support us.
Trans don't pick a fight with men and the male establishment.
 
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Bitofthebubbly

VIP Member
You can call yourself whatever you like, I don’t care. But you can’t argue with biology. If you have a penis then you are not a woman.
And they certainly don’t get periods or anything close to it no matter how many hormones they take.

Honestly don’t see what she said wrong. It’s true only biological women get periods, it annoys me that people are suddenly skirting around the word women when it concerns WOMENS issues and suddenly facts are transphobic now? Ridiculous world.
 
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FrannyGallops

VIP Member
Exactly! A very tedious woke feminist in Ireland wrote this. Rubbish argument


"In the middle of a global pandemic and a long over-due reckoning with the systemic racism that underpins our societal structures, JK Rowling, the author of the phenomenally successful Harry Potter series, decided to share an article on Twitter titled, ‘Creating a more equal post-COVID19 world for people who menstruate’.

“People who menstruate,” she tweeted.
In the article itself, the journalist wrote that “an estimated 1.8 billion girls, women, and gender non-binary persons menstruate”; and while it is clear they used this particular heading for brevity’s sake, it was also accurate. Intersex people may menstruate. Trans men may menstruate, but they are not women. And really, is this how we are going to define women from now on?

I didn’t have a period for years because of my eating disorder – was I not a woman then? What about those are post-menopausal? Or who have had a hysterectomy? By this narrow definition, do they cease to be women as soon as they stop menstruating?

If we are going to obsess about the biological particulars of being born a cis woman, does that mean that those who don’t or can’t bear children will no longer be deemed ‘real’ women either? How far down this road do we really want to go?"

No, we are going to define women by their biological sex. It is you and woke TRAs who are trying to change the definition and the goalposts
It’s always women who get the shitty end of the stick, innit? ‘Pregnant people’, ‘chestfeeders’, ‘people who menstruate’. Never heard the term ‘people who ejaculate’ say, or ‘penis havers’. Besides, not all women menstruate, but only women CAN menstruate, which is what JK Rowling meant. Bringing women who are menopausal etc. into it is a straw man.

Reminds me of that bloke with a beard who decided to grow his hair long and wear dresses. Said he was ‘broadening the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman’. Why does a man get to decide that and why doesn’t he broaden the bandwidth of what it means to be a man instead?
 
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Hallowmaiden

Active member
YES i would feel safe, there is no reason to feel threatened, tell me what could possibly happen? chances are you probably have already used a female toilet which a trans person has used as well and you didn’t even notice, people already judge them a lot for unfortunately being born in the wrong body and now they can’t even use their toilet because their body doesn’t match? (pretending a female born with a male body) that persons mentality is of the gender they truly are so i think the chances of your privacy being destroyed? is very low. Your telling me the safety of a toilet is based on the people who go in there? There are past criminals who have probably used a public toilet same time as you, should we ban all criminals and send them to a different toilet because perhaps they can’t be trusted? No.
Good for you.

Now try telling that to a victim of rape or sexual assault.
 
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Bitofthebubbly

VIP Member
No not all women do menstruate, but only biological women are born with the equipment that makes Menstruation possible. If those parts don’t work properly, that doesn’t make a woman any less. I don’t think she thinks menopausal women aren’t women for example, being as she is likely one herself.

Men can never have periods however. Periods are something only female bodies can do.
 
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vikka

VIP Member
Gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness. However if it were why is that a problem and why should the mentally ill be denigrated?

Gender dysphoria is a condition of extreme distress when there is a disconnect between ones physical sex and ones gender identity. The medical treatment for this is to allow the person to transition, however far they themself deem appropriate.

If someone with gender dysphoria cannot transition they are highly likely to take their own life.

If any person with bad intentions wanted to compromise a “woman’s space” all they need do is walk through the door. There’s no magic shield. We have respect one another as human beings and keep each other safe.
If it is a mental illness, isn't it more humane to seek psychological treatment and find the root casue for it than to allow people to chop off their genitals?
We don't allow people to cut themselves, there are legititimately people who want their leg or hand or foot chopped off, we send them to get psychological help and docs refuse to cut off their limbs, why is then ok for people who "feel" they are in the wrong body to take hormones (which can do other damage than the obvious, like blood clots and more), wreak havoc on their body irreversibly and chop off their perfectly fine genitals?

People ask questions, have concerns, bring up cases and mention the fact that study is actively squashed into these matters, and are for that labelled "haters", "phobic" and whatnot. I don't get it.

There are cases of people who transition, are still deeply unhappy, are unhappy with the reality of what it is to be a woman (the upkeep, the feminine issues natural born women face etc etc) and transition back.

We say people who go for excessive plastic surgery are mentally ill and that's fine to say, but to say that maybe trans people are mentally isn't?

It's part of the process of understanding and if there's eventually a cure, why not allow these ideas and see where that takes us?
No one here, from what I've read, wants to suppress transpeople and no one wants to forbid men wearing skirts.

The fact that children allowed to take hormones to transition is insane. How many girls are tomboys or boys like "girl" things etc etc and "grow out" of it? But these days, these kids are instantly "gay" or "trans", get a handful of pills "to feel like themselves" (isn't that mental illness??) and are scheduled for transition surgery.

The lawsuits, psychological scarring, suicide rates and whatnot in 10-40 years will be a sight to behold.

And the "trans" people who will say and cry "why did you allow this to us? Children to make these decisions? Why didn't the adults protect us" will lead another social change and we will look back at these barbaric times and the fact that educational institutions don't allow any study and the PC brigade just wants everyone to nod and say "yes" to any idea that comes is just insane.

If someone feels they are in the wrong body, they dress like the opposite sex, wear makeup etc etc, I have no problem with that. But surgery should seriously be off-limits, I knew of the problems MtF faced with their fake vaginas, but wasn't quite as aware until I read the post above somewhere. Anyone who allows for these surgeries needs their head examined. Seriously, this over-reach of the movement, incl the surgeries and esp allowing kids to transition, will be a massive scandal in a few decades, when the chickens come home to roost, there'll be massive backlash and problems of unprecedented scale.
 
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creme.egg92

Well-known member
Classic TRA post. Pretty much a form of bingo at this stage. Make a load of unsubstantiated claims, conclude with some emotive statement about hate and wrongness, refuse to answer any scrutiny by taking the ~ moral high ground ~ - “I’m not even going to waste my time pretending I have any sensible answers to your careful and considered questions that I can’t bullshit a response to” - fly off again with another screech about hate for good measure, feeling nice and superior. It’s like having a discussion with a particularly thick child. Same old same old.
 
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Inforapenny

Chatty Member
Don't you just love a man telling women they must accept trans women.
Daniel Radcliffe joins the ranks of Owen Jones now.
 
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Harrybosch

VIP Member
Quite the massive leap there to eating disorders which are classified as a mental illness which have nothing to do with my post.

Many trans people have mental illnesses as a result of their gender dysphoria and feeling unable to get access to a body they feel happy with.

Read about turner's syndrome, triple x, kilnefelter etc. Rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And these have nothing to do with gender dysphoria. I was simply showing that biological sex isn't binary.
Would you like me to put you in touch with a close friend who has turner syndrome and is very clearly and obviously a woman (she's given birth to a child, which she wouldn't have been able to do, were she a man). You can then explain to her why she actually isn't a woman. I'm sure she'd love to hear your thoughts on her biological sex.
 
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