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If they get Hamilton taken down before Friday, I'll have them! I only paid for Disney + for that and I've had to sit through Frozen 2 because of it
Adios my love! 
This is a genuine request for any fly and dash posters- perhaps you could tell us why you think we're wrong with our concerns? For e.g, why is it ok for male bodied men to take part in female sports and be at an unfair advantage? Why is it unreasonable to expect womens (and girls, crucially) private spaces to be pen free? Why is it unreasonable to not want crimes committed by biological males to be wrongly attributed to women? Why are trans people more vulnerable than anyone else in society? Assuming they're able bodied, there's no reason why they're more vulnerable than anyone else. Why is it transphobic to want kids to be left the hell alone and not told they're born in the wrong body just because they don't live up to gender stereotypes and given potentially dangerous drugs?
I’m so glad I read this thread! I thought it would be anti -JK but I’m glad to see the majority are pro
Can someone please explain to me, why the big deal around her original tweet was mainly about how it offends trans women, not trans men. Surely it is offensive to trans men, as they are likely menstruating?
Not all women menstruate so technically the trans women would be in this group? IDK maybe I missed something!
Can someone please explain to me, why the big deal around her original tweet was mainly about how it offends trans women, not trans men. Surely it is offensive to trans men, as they are likely menstruating?
Not all women menstruate so technically the trans women would be in this group? IDK maybe I missed something!
I can’t tell you all how relieved I am to have found this thread. Self ID terrifies me as a prospect. Even scarier are the friends and colleagues I have, many of whom are women or gay/lesbian, who can’t see what’s going on here. I never cared much for Rowling until recently and now I’m endlessly grateful to her for sticking her head above the parapet for us all. Equally I feel utterly devastated by Atwood’s comments yesterday, it must really be true what they say about never meeting your heroes
Hello and welcome!
The original tweet should have not been offensive to anyone at all (as even trans men should accept they still have the biological functions of a female). The reason it offended trans women is because they see themselves as the exact same as women (hence why people keep repeating "trans women are women")
Not really surprised about Atwood. This ideology seems to have taken hold of people in North America the most.
Yes totally agree - Canada especially seems to have downed the Kool Aid if not manufactured it - but I cannot get my head around what she’s said being in any way compatible with Handmaid’s Tale. The cognitive dissonance is REAL.
Thank you! Totally understand why it’s non offensive. But it gets my goat that it’s the trans women (men) bleating on that trans women are women and not the trans men (women) saying trans men are men! Once again, we women’s just sit quietly!
This is my genuine answer, but I have to ask questions too: what are the private spaces you mention? Public restrooms? How would you know if a another woman you meet there has a pen or not? You check everyone's private parts in a restroom??? Why?? Please refer to the statistics you refer to when it comes to crimes by biological males wrongly attributed to women. While at it, please look up the numbers of trans women murdered in the past year and the suicide rates among transgender teens. You're actively contributing to those numbers with your "concern" over somebody else's body and identity that is none of your freaking business. How many kids have been forced by their parents to go through transition? All of your concerns and hate is SO wrong, I can't believe you're celebrating and high-fiving yourself over being able to be hateful. You're not fighting a righteous fight here. You're simply spreading false information based on hearsay and VERY questionable numbers from questionable sources (I have seen them, I know which ones you all always quote).
I mean, there would be zero trans people in Gilead, right? Anyone who’s had surgery on their genitals would be hung on the wall, transmen with intact lady parts would be forced into being Handmaids and all the transwomen with intact wicks would revert to living as men, to survive.
Yet Margaret Atwood thinks biological sex is some kind of spectrum?! I have to laugh, otherwise I’ll cry.
Look up the answers yourself.
I’m obviously not answering for the PP you are responding to. But for me it’s having gender neutral spaces (toilets, changing rooms, men working in women’s refuges) in that the people with penises who are not trans women will be able to far too easily have access to women at a vulnerable point.
Like you said, I don’t know if the women next to me has a pen. And providing she doesn’t assault me with it (which I imagine would be highly unlikely) I don’t care. As long as she doesn’t mind me washing blood stains out of my skirt/trousers etc
I would not let my daughter change in a gender neutral changing room alone. There are many evil men who would take advantage
I’m very sorry but it’s you that’s spreading false information. All the claims you just made in this post are based on either falsified or misappropriated stats.
In the UK, transpeople are safer from murder than the average person: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk
The US does have a problem with Black transwomen working as prostitutes who are murdered, but I’m fairly sure they are not murdered at a higher rate than Black female prosititutes, so it’s their race and lack of safety in their job which is the problem.
We don’t know how many kids are being forced to transition, but we do know that there have been whistleblowers at the Tavistock regarding safeguarding and homophobic parents who push for transition over accepting their child as gay. I’m sure you’ve read and seen all recent press on this.
We also know the NHS has quietly changed their advice and guidance on transgender children as medical issues with puberty blockers come to light. Lots of information on that out there.
I think stats about suicide go either way, but I know I have seen studies that suggest transition doesn’t slow the rate of suicide, so perhaps it’s not the answer for those with gender dysphoria.
I’m sure you realise women’s safe spaces are more than just public loos - prisons, shelters, grape victim support groups, female-only hospital wards are all places where vulnerable women exist and shouldn’t be forced to share with people who possess a pen. I’m sure you have heard about Karen White, the transgender prisoner who retained full male genitalia (as most do - genitial reassignment surgery is a bit of a con given how many people have major problems afterwards), went to a female prison and grape fellow inmates.
I’m sure you’ll tell me that’s just one example but there’s plenty.
Please maybe have a look beyond what is spread on Twitter at actual news sources of all kinds. Maybe listen to the women who don’t feel as comfortable as you at sharing spaces with people who have penises.
It’s not about hate at all, it’s about protecting women’s hard-earned rights.
Oh and I totally forgot about the fact that the proposed changes to the GRA that thankfully the Tories have quietly dropped would have meant any man could just call himself a woman and access all women’s spaces. So a predator could just say “but I’m a woman” and the concerned women couldn’t get the security guard to chuck him out of the ladies until he’d actually committed a crime, like voyerurism or sexual assault or grape. Call me crazy but I’d rather not make it easier for male predators to access women and I’d rather be able to chuck them out of the space before they actually commit a crime!
Ooh, I love this comeback! They think it’s such a great “gotcha” but it isn’t!
I don’t need to check someone’s genitals to know when there’s a man in the female bathrooms. The height, build, walk and mannerisms all tell me that. You really think the average trans woman is unclockable? Women can spot a man in their peripheral vision in a split second.
And before you mention that trans women need access to female bathrooms for their safety (and I’ve said this before): female bathrooms are for females, they’re not a refuge for anyone who happens to fear men.
But that's exactly what you want, because in your mind, trans women are men.
Anyway, I'll be honest, I'm scared of so much hatred (masked as fear and concern) from typical Karens who think they're fighting a feminist fight. I fully disagree with all of you and will now, genuinely, leave you to celebrate yourself and Rowling. Carry on.
Why are you just calling us Karens and not engaging with what we’ve said?
This is always the pattern. Someone runs around screaming that we’re full of hate, can’t pinpoint why, and doesn’t actually engage with any points made.
It’s the same on every forum!
I’m so up for having a respectful discussion about this but none of the “you’re full of hate” brigade ever engage.
^^ Anyone who uses a misogynistic term like "Karen" (twice) isn't really one to preach to others about feminism
Facts aren’t hate.
As for “Karens” - please take your internalised misogyny and don’t let the door hit your a on the way out.
Genuine question, do you think Rowling said anything out of line/offensive? If so, what was it?
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