Gary Lineker needs to start paying the proper tax he owes before preaching to others what he perceives to be the ills of society.
It is indeed a complex subject. I have nothing to disagree with in your post. However, and you may think that the end justifies the means, the point of my opening this thread was what goes on at the production stage of the process. I don’t like the thought of a group of people sitting with a list of prospective candidates, with pens, scoring people off the list purely on the basis of their demographic. Because they have another list with the criteria that have to be met. In other words, box ticking. This would not matter so much if there were not competition in the programme. But let me go back to Strictly, and move away from race. I hope you will agree that in possibly every area of the media, there are very few situations now where the participants are all white. Rightly so, we are in a multi cultural society now, so a random choice is likely to be multi cultural, no box ticking required. That is honest. Perhaps that goes for sexual orientation too, so I’ll highlight only the box ticking that makes me feel that I am being manipulated to cover the BBC’s arse. Ellie Simmonds. She did very well on her own merit, she worked very hard, and was good, so actually choosing her turned out fine. But let us imagine that she had been rubbish. Would the judges have given her a very low mark so that she was in danger of being sent home in the first week ? I doubt it. Then we have Jayde, who WAS utter rubbish. The judges gave her ridiculously high marks. Once again, the programme could not be seen to be sending the big girl home. How long would the judges have continued to mark her unfairly, if the public hadn’t scuppered their plans by deciding that no matter how much she looked like them, she really was just not good enough to vote for. When she was chosen at production level, someone else was rejected.
So if you are saying that Jayde was only booked to be the big girl so was taking that space away from a better dancer , is that the same for Tony ? was he only booked to fill the role of older sportsman with a redemption story/comedy act ? he stayed in despite being a terrible dancer at the expense of better dancers because the public voted for him despite the judges marking him low . Was that viewers sticking a finger up to the judges and the BBc or was it part of the woke BBC’s plan to keep him in as long as possible ?after all the optics of sending home a “ legend” who was there to raise awareness of mens mental health wouldnt be great. Was Hamza only booked because of his size or ethnicity? Was Kaye only booked because she’s an older women ? If the bookings have been predominantly box ticking a woke agenda , where was the lesbian contestant this year ? Or the trans contestant?
he did point out how it should have been choreographed to avoid being a legal lift , and was booed by the audience for daring to be critical as he is every week . The issue was not the lift , it was the added flair that made it a stylistic choice.
but what if that year the best celebrities that strictly had available to book that year happened to be all white straight able bodied people? Why would that be fascist but if they chose to replace a couple of those contestants with a poc or disabled person then it’s because they are woke?Both are manipulations are they not?By your neck of the woods, I meant nowhere near me, or I would have heard of him. Nothing more than that. Of course I would not want to see an all white ,straight, able bodied line up. I am against being manipulated by the media, not a fascist.
Oh, I am going to do something I complained about when others did it to me on the Strictly thread, it is so patronising and rude. But you have given me little choice.
By your neck of the woods, I meant nowhere near me, or I would have heard of him. Nothing more than that. Of course I would not want to see an all white ,straight, able bodied line up. I am against being manipulated by the media, not a fascist.I have read the entire thread , and I post regularly on the strictly come dancing thread so i am aware of your views. Yes I do think that people would complain of there were a completely white able bodied straight line up on strictly because as I have said , representation matters . Is that what you would like to see as someone who is anti-wokeness?
Tony mentioned his motivations in his leaving speech . Hamza’s weight loss and the fact he could be light footed as a big lad when Jayde was so heavy footed was discussed at length on the strictly thread, as was people voting for Tony because of his perceived legend status.
Fwiw , I don’t see him as a legend as I don’t particularly follow football , and I’m not sure what you mean by my neck of the woods because I’m pretty sure you have no idea where I am from
I think you have hit the nail on the head, the BBC would never present that line up. They would be frightened of reprisals. They cover their backsides at all cost.
I have read the entire thread , and I post regularly on the strictly come dancing thread so i am aware of your views. Yes I do think that people would complain of there were a completely white able bodied straight line up on strictly because as I have said , representation matters . Is that what you would like to see as someone who is anti-wokeness?Oh dear, if all those boxes have to be ticked, they will need a bigger list of contestants
I certainly believe that Jayde was chosen because of her weight that she is so proud of. Does she not make a thing of it? I certainly think that Kaye was chosen because she is representing the older woman. I thought Tony was the one who is there for the laughs, there is usually one. like Ann Widdecombe. And he may be a legend in your neck of the woods, but he is nothing where I come from. He was there to highlight men’s mental health ? That went over my head I am afraid. I help to raise money for two mens mental health charities , because my brother committed suicide, so if Tony is raising money for that, good. Hamza? He doesn’t seem to be overly heavy to me, I was too busy thinking what a delightful beautiful man he was to notice it. Perhaps because he works for the BBC ? To narrow it down, if there was an all white, able bodied, straight line-up on Strictly, do you not believe that the woke police would complain ? Would the BBC risk that ?
I had forgotten about Jonny Peacock, he was amazing, and I remember now thinking ffs. I have to admit, and you may be surprised, but I am terribly soft hearted, so get upset if someone receives criticism for something they cannot help. Like Ellie, when Craig took a mark from her for an illegal lift. He should have suggested that a different choreography should have been used to avoid such things. He has mentioned Hamza’s hen toes too, no-one chooses to walk like that, so it must be difficult for him. Yet, did he not give Jayde good marks for her clomping ?i agree with jayde but not really with ellie.
to focus on ellie is to ignore all of the other contestants with disabilities that strictly have had over the years - a lot of whom received criticism and went home early. jonny peacock got told to work on flexing his ankles, a thing that he physically cannot do! so i don’t entirely agree that they wouldn’t give a low mark to a less able bodied contestant, it’s happened before and they weren’t always glowing about ellie either. i give them credit for that. when jonny p left he specially said “thank you for judging me as an equal” to len.
however, i do agree with you on jayde. the borderline patronising praise she received for apparently even setting a toe on the dance floor was ridiculous. in terms of her casting, she was a competitive jazz dancer in her youth and so it is likely that they were expecting her to be better than she was when she was chosen. they’ve had “bigger” contestants previously who have been good and bad and always marked fairly. it did, i agree, feel very different with her though and her behaviour afterwards where she implied people were fatphobic did her no favours.
i think you and i (and most of us here!) are agreeing with each other, albeit in circles sometimesthe bottom line for me though is that, historical accuracy or vital ness to the plot aside, the best person should always be cast. i agree with you that that doesn’t always happen. but i equally feel that it does mean that some castings get immediately criticised as having nefarious motives before people have even seen the end product.
there’s a big fuss in theatreland at the moment re the stage production of a little life. people who have read the book will know that the lead character is not white. this is vital to his story and the subject of many discussions between him and other characters. the stage production has cast james norton in this role. two other cast members in the main cast of four are black (in line with the book). people on twitter are saying this is woke casting, in an attempt to keep the cast diverse, but because norton is white it seems to have opened up a whole load of discussion that i find interesting in the context of this thread. like you and others have rightly pointed out, there’s a lot of focus on casting poc when we say “woke”. but it can work all ways.
. I am realising I shouldn’t watch the programme now, some years I haven’t, but my daughter likes it. Apart from anything else, there aren’t enough pretty frocks for me. Oh dear, Will there ever be a man in a pretty frock like Harry Styles?
If the best people for the show are white straight able bodied people then so be it! Race or sexuality etc isn’t your only defining characteristic- can’t we be entertained by the most entertaining and best people? I mean, I really identified with a woman totally different from me taking about her experiences in my industry on a programme recently, simply because she was a woman- like me
