Is the BBC and other channels WOKE.

[Ensay]

Woke comes from AAVE and originally meant someone who was aware of racial prejudice and discrimination, but it seems to be used more often as an insult now against identity politics and social justice etc. I do think part of the issues around ‘woke’ is a push back from things being performative.

Ah yeah, I was recently reading up on AAVE (African-American Vernacular English to those who aren't aware) and was surprised at some of the words on there, which I had no idea were AAVE.

I remember the "stay woke" phrase was probably the first time I heard it. Now, as you say, it's mostly used in a derogatory fashion - especially in the overused (and, in my opinion, silly) quote: "Go woke, go broke!"

 

[Ensay]

Oh dear, if all those boxes have to be ticked, they will need a bigger list of contestants . If you have read the whole thread, you should be aware by now that I don’t care about the colour of the contestants skin, nor their sexuality, nor their hair colour or anything else. My gripe is purely that I believe that the BBC, along with most of the media tick boxes. If you disagree, it makes no difference to me, believe what you like.I think that a good percentage of the population agree with me. Try entering “Is the BBC woke ?” into a search engine. You might see that they do.
I certainly believe that Jayde was chosen because of her weight that she is so proud of. Does she not make a thing of it? I certainly think that Kaye was chosen because she is representing the older woman. I thought Tony was the one who is there for the laughs, there is usually one. like Ann Widdecombe. And he may be a legend in your neck of the woods, but he is nothing where I come from. He was there to highlight men’s mental health ? That went over my head I am afraid. I help to raise money for two mens mental health charities , because my brother committed suicide, so if Tony is raising money for that, good. Hamza? He doesn’t seem to be overly heavy to me, I was too busy thinking what a delightful beautiful man he was to notice it. Perhaps because he works for the BBC ? To narrow it down, if there was an all white, able bodied, straight line-up on Strictly, do you not believe that the woke police would complain ? Would the BBC risk that ?

To be honest, I don't think the variety of contestants on Strictly is down to the BBC being woke. I think it's done to be appealing to the widest audience.

If it was an all-white, able-bodied, straight line up that'd be pretty boring. Just as it'd be boring if all the contestants were either brilliant or bad.

They want to get as many people watching the show as possible, so I think that's why there's a large range of people and abilities.

 

[GossWhore]

This thread is fucking weird

 

[LaBlonde]

Yes thanks for the homily.
But putting the words "dimwit" and "trope" together implies something about the trope, not the person repeating it.
Although maybe it does...
But then so does making reference to "white", "christian" and " British", which rather implies racism: wouldn't you say?
Which btw is another rather tired shorthand way of dismissing an argument.

you’re welcome! and i don’t know what any of that really has to do with my pointing out your dismissive tone in relation to that post but i actually enjoy your discursive writing style and found your earlier reply to me interesting so

as i said above, you’re obviously very well read on this subject and must have some interesting points to add. your response to me yesterday genuinely raised a lot of things i hadn’t considered. it’s a shame that you won’t let people engage with you on the topic without having to swipe back (as you’ve now also done above).

 

[greenvelvet]

Oh, how I sympathise with you, because on the Strictly thread, when I disagreed, that is exactly how I was treated. Not very nice , is it ? I think you will find that if you read through the posts, you will find that Wibble did, in fact, provide an example that shows producers’ manipulation. I include extracts from an interview of a journalist who worked at the BBC. He sums up my thoughts very well.

The thing is, sometimes I do agree, sometimes I do think they’re being inclusive for the wrong reasons, ie to avoid criticism rather than because of an intrinsic understanding of what they’re doing and why it matters. I do have concerns about beliefs people don’t fully understand shaping policy.

But equally, I can see some holes in the journalist’s argument. He argues that having a disabled person on a panel on a radio show wouldn’t matter because you can’t see that they’re disabled. Lots of disabilities aren’t visible anyway, for one, and it’s not really about needing to see the person - it’s about hearing their experiences and taking an interest in what they bring to the table.

ETA there are a few elements to representation: 1. Casting “neutral” characters ie ones where their race doesn’t play into the plot, 2. recasting characters that have been white, able bodied, etc previously as the opposite, 3. Creating stories about minority groups and casting actors accordingly and 4. hiring minorities as themselves ie as writers, presenters and panel members. Each one is different like I don’t think you can apply a single argument to all of them and call it a day.

Yes thanks for the homily.
But putting the words "dimwit" and "trope" together implies something about the trope, not the person repeating it.
Although maybe it does...
But then so does making reference to "white", "christian" and " British", which rather implies racism: wouldn't you say?
Which btw is another rather tired shorthand way of dismissing an argument.

Manchester is only 66.7% white and Leeds is 85% white.

can you clarify how mentioning those groups implies racism? Is it really racist to state that the UK is majority white British? Saying that it would be nice to see some alternative representation doesn’t mean white British perspectives aren’t welcome.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

So if you are saying that Jayde was only booked to be the big girl so was taking that space away from a better dancer , is that the same for Tony ? was he only booked to fill the role of older sportsman with a redemption story/comedy act ? he stayed in despite being a terrible dancer at the expense of better dancers because the public voted for him despite the judges marking him low . Was that viewers sticking a finger up to the judges and the BBc or was it part of the woke BBC’s plan to keep him in as long as possible ?after all the optics of sending home a “ legend” who was there to raise awareness of mens mental health wouldnt be great. Was Hamza only booked because of his size or ethnicity? Was Kaye only booked because she’s an older women ? If the bookings have been predominantly box ticking a woke agenda , where was the lesbian contestant this year ? Or the trans contestant? he did point out how it should have been choreographed to avoid being a legal lift , and was booed by the audience for daring to be critical as he is every week . The issue was not the lift , it was the added flair that made it a stylistic choice.

Oh dear, if all those boxes have to be ticked, they will need a bigger list of contestants . If you have read the whole thread, you should be aware by now that I don’t care about the colour of the contestants skin, nor their sexuality, nor their hair colour or anything else. My gripe is purely that I believe that the BBC, along with most of the media tick boxes. If you disagree, it makes no difference to me, believe what you like.I think that a good percentage of the population agree with me. Try entering “Is the BBC woke ?” into a search engine. You might see that they do.
I certainly believe that Jayde was chosen because of her weight that she is so proud of. Does she not make a thing of it? I certainly think that Kaye was chosen because she is representing the older woman. I thought Tony was the one who is there for the laughs, there is usually one. like Ann Widdecombe. And he may be a legend in your neck of the woods, but he is nothing where I come from. He was there to highlight men’s mental health ? That went over my head I am afraid. I help to raise money for two mens mental health charities , because my brother committed suicide, so if Tony is raising money for that, good. Hamza? He doesn’t seem to be overly heavy to me, I was too busy thinking what a delightful beautiful man he was to notice it. Perhaps because he works for the BBC ? To narrow it down, if there was an all white, able bodied, straight line-up on Strictly, do you not believe that the woke police would complain ? Would the BBC risk that ?

 

[soph30]

To be honest though people are individuals, they’re not defined because they’re not white or not able bodied. It would probably be more ‘diverse’ in some ways for me to hear from an older white man from a different part of England than me than it would to hear from a black woman my age who lives in my community and uses a wheelchair

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

I mean the ethnic makeup of the UK has changed so much over the past few years - in London, the city associated with the country the most as the capital, only 1/3 said they were White British. The number of people in England and Wales identifying as white has fallen by around 500,000 in a decade. Less than half of the popular identify as Christians. So I guess these shows are just becoming representative of what’s happening?

Certainly, It feels silly now to call POC a minority. They are where I live, but I’m not in a city. I can remember when I lived in London in the seventies, I could be the only white person in a very large tube compartment. I still believe though, that the programme planners would go to great lengths not to have an all white line up. Because there would be criticism from pressure groups.

Giving up television is remarkably easy.

It is, if I am home alone, I never watch it, I much prefer a book

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

i would disagree and i’m not sure what you mean by “to this level” and “too far”. it’s literally just casting a fictional character. this really just proves my earlier point that any type of minority casting gets downplayed and invalidated as “woke”.

if rege-jean page is cast (going from the bookies odds) it will be because he’s handsome, has a bond-ish vibe, and has a decent amount of hype behind him. likewise with henry golding (to pick another from the list). the fact that you would already believe that casting to be “trivial” is the other side of the woke agenda tbh. to blindly believe all poc casting is “woke” is to completely discount that casting. and, especially in a bond context, i don’t get it. it’s possible for poc to be cast on their own merits.

james bond has stayed the same age for about 60 years so i don’t think he can even be claimed to be the same character at this point. the theory that it’s just a code name makes the most sense. likewise, sticking to white actors because all the actors before have been white makes little sense.

It is trivial, and too far because it is unnecessary and is going to do nothing for the cause of POC. It is not going to change the world. It is piffle. Like throwing a crumb to a starving man. Let’s make Othello white, and gay, that might bring in a new audience. And why not go further with Bond, make him gay too. It’s perhaps time that the Bond Girls made way for the Bond Boys.
However, if Rege-Jene Page is cast as Bond, then, personally I will be thrilled, it might make me watch the films again he is very handsome, and a talented actor. I am of an age that Sean Connery is Bond, and even he didn’t do it for me.
I really cannot see where you get the idea that I think all POC casting as woke, the idea is utterly preposterous. Possibly, most of the leading men I rank highly are black, and I have never dreamt that they were chosen for roles because of their colour. Where woke raises it’s head is where a traditionally white role is changed suddenly to a black one, or a historically straight role is suddenly gay. I will stick to my guns in believing this is a deliberate ploy to be inclusive. POC, I am sure , have no difficulty finding parts they can play. Excellent parts.
Anyway, let’s go back to Strictly for a moment, and mention the beautiful Hamza. Posters were complaining that he was overmarked, I agreed, and offered an explanation. Personally I wouldn’t care if every contestant was black, gay or had a disability. I have only just realise that Molly is mixed race. Does it stop me from giving her my vote? No. I have been voting for Hamza, Molly and Kym from the start. What I object to, on principal , is being manipulated by the media. But there is one contestant who I really objected to, and that was Jayde. She was kept in the show because of no other reason that she was very overweight. Doing it for the big girls ? Is little Helen doing it for the petite girls ? And Shirley with her “You are an outstanding dancer “. If anything shone a big light on wokery, it was that. She went home because viewers realised just how far she was up her own backside, and stopped voting for her. And eventually the judges had to send her home.
Woke is not just about colour, I think that is where you are off kilter with my opinions. If Ellie had been voted off in week one, do you seriously believe the BBC would not have received criticism? Especially with the footballer, sorry his name escapes me, was pretty poor, and stayed in.
The posts I have made have been aimed at the general ‘inclusion at all costs’ attitude, and are not indicative of my own personal feelings. But obviously theoretical debate is off the cards. I saw that someone had queried if a poster had said there should be no disabled people, and less black people. I am really tempted by an eye roll emoji here, but it is rude. I would like to say ffs, but I may do that if I am represented wrongly again.
I wonder what minority will arrive in Strictly next. Perhaps we will have a contestant who is trans. They will dance the male part one week, and the female part the week after. They will be given two professional partners, otherwise it would be unfair. And before you accuse me of being against trans people, can I say loud and clear, I don’t care if someone is trans , that is their business and nothing to do with me.

 

[IngressUK]

Giving up television is remarkably easy.

Linear TV is very easy, especially with all the streaming options now available.

You can also watch BBC channels on apps such as TV Player without a licence. There is around a 10+ second delay on the live broadcast, for which this is not classed as live TV - which is what the licence covers.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

I have been wondering………many years ago, it would have been nigh impossible to get a job in the newly set-up Scottish Television, unless you had one credential. The criteria for employment was not listed on paper, but it existed. Any successful applicants would have to be Roman Catholic. I wonder if one day, the board gathered around the table and decided that there had to be one Protestant. This was not a rumour, religious bigotry was alive and well. Possibly no Protestant wanted the job sitting with Roman Catholics anyway.

 

[wibble]

i don’t think mainstream channels are “ woke” , but I think they can be very clumsy in trying to be inclusive and ending up looking like it’s a box checking exercise. in general though , I can’t see why having representation of a wide range of people is seen as a bad thing. There’s plenty of choice of channels these days to cater for everyone- if people want to watch a program that’s got a predominately white straight cis cast they can, if people want to watch something that has people from the LGBTQ+ community they can . Not everything has to be for everyone

Indeed, and time in the schedule is finite.
And channels have staples - soaps, news programs, seasonal shows like strictly etc - on which the schedule is built.
And production have complicated issues involving agents and accountants and managers, and government targets etc.

But the issue is, are you watching television to be represented?

And if you feel it is...
And if you feel you aren't...
what mechanism exists to rectify that?

Within the constraints of...
... time in the schedule is finite.
And channels have staples - soaps, news programs, seasonal shows like strictly etc - on which the schedule is built.
And production have complicated issues involving agents and accountants and managers, and government targets etc.

And what if that mechanism doesn't work?

 

[JAR21]

I loved Luther and the main character is played by Idris Elba. They're now recording a film of the programme, and if they'd cast a white Luther, I wouldn't have been happy, because Luther is Idris.

Also, in the Alex Cross series of books by James Patterson, Alex is black. If they'd cast a white man to play him, that would also have been wrong.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

To be honest though people are individuals, they’re not defined because they’re not white or not able bodied. It would probably be more ‘diverse’ in some ways for me to hear from an older white man from a different part of England than me than it would to hear from a black woman my age who lives in my community and uses a wheelchair

I couldn’t agree with you more. I am pretty sure there are many who do not want to be chosen because they are black, gay or disabled. I know I wouldn’t want to be. To be fair, the only demographic I represent are the the decrepit wrinklies. I know I may come across a bit strong, but some years ago I refused to go to a keep fit class because it was named ‘Nifty at Fifty’ . Boxes, hate them. Unless they’re a nice box, I keep them in the attic, cannot throw them away
Every person is different and should be viewed and respected as who they are, not what they are. I could never be against the original meaning of woke. But it has been watered down so much now, that I think it may do more damage than good.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

Dead Famous by Ben Elton is a novel about a murder on a reality show that's an obvious parody of Big Brother. There's a scene that describes how the TV execs decided who would be on the show based on various demographic criteria and then found that some of those choices backfired with the public anyway (eg they wanted gay representation so chose a very butch woman, but audiences found her offputting and would have preferred a "safe" stereotype of a campy gay man.) The book is quite old as it was published in 2001 but I think that scene is probably quite accurate lol

 

[Ireckon]

I agreed with what Gary Lineker said, as do many other people. I don't see it as preaching, it's just his view. Nor do I see his comment as "woke".

Gary is demeaning the plight of the Jewish people when he compares the two, that’s what I have against his tweet . Also he doesn’t understand from a poor persons point of view as he drives off in his big air conditioned car

 

[LaBlonde]

I had forgotten about Jonny Peacock, he was amazing, and I remember now thinking ffs. I have to admit, and you may be surprised, but I am terribly soft hearted, so get upset if someone receives criticism for something they cannot help. Like Ellie, when Craig took a mark from her for an illegal lift. He should have suggested that a different choreography should have been used to avoid such things. He has mentioned Hamza’s hen toes too, no-one chooses to walk like that, so it must be difficult for him. Yet, did he not give Jayde good marks for her clomping ? . I am realising I shouldn’t watch the programme now, some years I haven’t, but my daughter likes it. Apart from anything else, there aren’t enough pretty frocks for me. Oh dear, Will there ever be a man in a pretty frock like Harry Styles?

jonny was wonderful! as said, i do give strictly
credit for how they judge their disabled/less able bodied contestants. the comments are always fair imo, even if sometimes they DO criticise things that aren’t possible (and got will to jump off a table when he didn’t have ankle joints and so injure himself). agree completely re ellie’s lift and hamza’s pigeon toes! i’m slightly pigeon toed myself so i sympathise like we said above, all of that did seem different with jayde though. they’ve had big ladies before and never spoken to them in that way. i still do think they were hoping she would be good (with her dance background) but that doesn’t excuse the way they judged her.

the standard of frocks has sadly declined over the years

 

[Whatevesmate]

LOL. I'm happy to provide 'evidence' if you want it. In order to do a decent job, it would obviously take a few days. And my opinion on this subject, comes from my academic studies. I have degrees in social research and social theory. I've been studying these subjects for over 30 years.
But you are entitled to your opinion too and you may be every bit as qualified as I am. So why don't we have a proper debate on this subject? That would be much better than sneering comments. Much peace to you.

My comment wasn't sneering and I apologise if it came across that way. My point is that what we like/don't like on TV is an opinion and it seems quite a leap to construe that as being based on woke ideology. I was genuinely interested if these views were based on evidence or not.

 

[wibble]

Manchester is only 66.7% white and Leeds is 85% white.

can you clarify how mentioning those groups implies racism? Is it really racist to state that the UK is majority white British? Saying that it would be nice to see some alternative representation doesn’t mean white British perspectives aren’t welcome.

Blimey you are really doing mental gymnastics now... lol.

 

[greenvelvet]

Blimey you are really doing mental gymnastics now... lol.

Can you at least try to explain how it’s mental gymnastics? :/ Come on, you clearly have a strong viewpoint you care about. Try to do it justice.