Is the BBC and other channels WOKE.

[Cassandra333]

I haven't watched the BBC in years and I've no intention of ever watching it again. This is an organisation that covered up paedophilia. This is an organisation that doesn't know what a woman is - adult human female - and has shown absolute disrespect for women by promoting trans ideology.
It also supported and encouraged the transitioning of children which has proven to be riddled with child abuse. So the BBC has been promoting child abuse which makes you wonder if they're still hiding paedophiles?
Is the BBC woke? Do bears shit in the woods?
I feel I should add that the majority of other mainstream channels are also woke.

 

[Cassandra333]

I do struggle to understand what people mean when they say the casting of so-and-so is 'box ticking' - a phrase exclusively used for people of colour, people with disabilities, people who are LGBT or people who might not be white British.

In the wider context, for me, 'box ticking' is giving jobs to people BECAUSE of the minority they're in and not because they're the best for the job. I think it's offensive to minorities because it implies that they're not really good enough to be on a flat playing field. And I say that as someone who is disabled.

My disabilities meant my employer had to make adaptions for me but when I was promoted, I'd like to think it was on my own merit, not because I'm disabled. I should imagine other minorities feel the same way.

When it comes to the 'casting' of acting roles, it could be argued that a decent actor/actress could play a part regardless of their race etc. Just as a straight actor could play a gay person. And a gay actor can play a straight person.

But the problems come in and it becomes a 'box ticking' exercise imo when it begins to rewrite history. Anne Bolyn (Can't remember how to spell it, sorry) was not Black. On the other hand, I'd have no problems with James Bond being Black because James Bond is a FICTIONAL character.

When it comes to reality shows, there's no problem with contestants representing minorities. That's great. It's the competition side that becomes the problem because there is often a bias being pushed. That bias may be in good faith but it's still wrong. Added to which, the public will push a bias if it suits them to do so. But that's favouritism and favouritism happens in competition.

Sorry, am I waffling? What I'm trying to say is that all this 'woke' can often do more harm that good. 'Woke' critical race theory is causing racial tension. 'Trans Ideology' is dangerous for women and children. But then I'm not kind. I think 'kind' is an empty virtue signalling endeavour.

 

[JAR21]

The BBC is definitely woke and full of box ticking and employing bloody Lineker etc. But it's not the only place that is. I've just watched Bridgerton on Netflix and it drove me mad that they've cast actors and actresses in the roles of aristocracy and upper class people who can't even pronounce words properly. Actresses saying fink and fank instead of think and thank

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

I believe that they are. It is wonderful to see that programmes are becoming inclusive. Minorities should be represented, after all, we should be all seen as equal in this world. Even the word ‘minority’ is derisive.
However, it is believed , by myself and many others, that those in the boardrooms, the programme planners , are choosing contestants because they are ticking boxes.
My stand on this is that if contestants are chosen, not on their skill, or expertise or suitability, then that is patronising and insulting both to the person and the audience.
I have commented on this on The Strictly thread, and have the feeling that vague accusations are being made that I am racist or homophobic. To deny this vehemently somehow proves that I am.
I would love to hear the views of others.

 

[Carpediem69]

Abso-bloody-lutely

Having said that I rarely watch, what I consider, mainstream channels anymore, they have lost all credibility and professionalism IMO

 

[Cassandra333]

My comment wasn't sneering and I apologise if it came across that way. My point is that what we like/don't like on TV is an opinion and it seems quite a leap to construe that as being based on woke ideology. I was genuinely interested if these views were based on evidence or not.

Thanks for the apology and all is good

But lets talk about what we like on TV being an opinion. It's an opinion that has been heavily influenced by what you have seen on the TV and the media. This is a subject that's much bigger than 'woke' and includes all kinds of propaganda, manipulation and often a 'steering hand' from the powers that be. By which I mean politicians, billionaires, anyone with power within the system.

We see this most clearly during wartime. Especially the World Wars. But it's ongoing all the time. Woke has just made it easier to see.

When all the media, including papers, magazines, TV companies say that Transwomen are women, that's deceptive and dangerous. It isn't possible to change your sex and that's all there is to it. But what makes it propaganda is the silencing of the opposition. Gender critics are ridiculed, abused, threatened and silenced. But the media doesn't report it. This is how media shape opinions.

Another way to see the way TV influences your opinion is to look at advertising. There's tonnes of stuff on that and it's well worth researching.
So much to talk about within this subject! When you take a step back, it's really is fascinating.

 

[Cassandra333]

So your 'evidence' is your subjective opinion. Obviously you are entitled to an opinion but that doesn't constitute evidence.

LOL. I'm happy to provide 'evidence' if you want it. In order to do a decent job, it would obviously take a few days. And my opinion on this subject, comes from my academic studies. I have degrees in social research and social theory. I've been studying these subjects for over 30 years.
But you are entitled to your opinion too and you may be every bit as qualified as I am. So why don't we have a proper debate on this subject? That would be much better than sneering comments. Much peace to you.

 

[Cassandra333]

On what basis are you claiming that people aren't being chosen based on their skills, suitability or expertise? Where is your evidence for that?

Because some of them are really bad at what they're doing? I haven't watched TV in donkey's years but I vaguely remember there were people who, working at their best, didn't compare to the most skilled.
And there's loads of evidence of people being chosen who don't have the skills, suitability or experise. Look at the early days of Pop Idol etc. People were voting for the person Simon Cowell DIDN'T want.
Competition must be fair or it's pointless.

 

[JAR21]

to be fair to bridgerton, i don’t think it claims to be historically accurate. it’s a completely fabricated version of regency life, in both the books and the show. they’re all dancing to string quartet versions of ariana grande after all (not to mention walking around without chaperones if you want to get deeper into it).

my main issue with the idea of “woke” is that it indirectly invalidates any type of non-white casting. the new doctor who was immediately shouted down as woke casting with absolutely no consideration that he may genuinely have been the best person who auditioned. open casting has to work all ways in that the best person for the part gets the part. sometimes that person may not be white (obviously this is restrictions permitting if they’re playing a real person). i don’t particularly like when people are immediately discredited as being a woke casting. if the new james bond is a poc then i fully expect the same thing to happen.

So do you think that would happen if the best person for playing Martin Luther King was white?

 

[Mark81]

I don't think the BBC is especially 'woke' tbh. I'd certainly put itv and c4 ahead in that score If we forced to compare. Also Anne Boleyn wasn't the BBC it was C5.

My only issues with box ticking are when it's so laughably blatant and they have one of every demographic, that university prospectus situation where you see one of every type of student sitting together (which doesn't happen in real life). It just doesn't feel authentic. Also when the moral and message is handled so obviously its hitting the audience over the head, no one can write subtle messages in strong stories anymore. It's often moral of the week in lecture form

I personally like historical dramas to be as historically accurate as possibly to make history come alive and be authentic, so for me the look of actors playing the role is important. But I can appreciate its also nice to open up other races to roles they may not get to play, but I'd personally be less likely to watch if not historically accurate.

 

[LaBlonde]

The BBC is definitely woke and full of box ticking and employing bloody Lineker etc. But it's not the only place that is. I've just watched Bridgerton on Netflix and it drove me mad that they've cast actors and actresses in the roles of aristocracy and upper class people who can't even pronounce words properly. Actresses saying fink and fank instead of think and thank

to be fair to bridgerton, i don’t think it claims to be historically accurate. it’s a completely fabricated version of regency life, in both the books and the show. they’re all dancing to string quartet versions of ariana grande after all (not to mention walking around without chaperones if you want to get deeper into it).

my main issue with the idea of “woke” is that it indirectly invalidates any type of non-white casting. the new doctor who was immediately shouted down as woke casting with absolutely no consideration that he may genuinely have been the best person who auditioned. open casting has to work all ways in that the best person for the part gets the part. sometimes that person may not be white (obviously this is restrictions permitting if they’re playing a real person). i don’t particularly like when people are immediately discredited as being a woke casting. if the new james bond is a poc then i fully expect the same thing to happen.

 

[i10gal]

We gave up our TV licence over 2 years ago now, purley because of our angst at the BBC, how it has become, how biased it is in broadcasting and more so the horrific cover ups it has been involved in.

It was a huge decision based on the fact would we miss watching live TV. I have to say I have not missed watching live TV once. We watched a bit on Netflix, then discovered YouTube and there are some people on their who publish vlogs that are a million times better than the dross BBC churns out.

 

[NomDeGuerre]

I do struggle to understand what people mean when they say the casting of so-and-so is 'box ticking' - a phrase exclusively used for people of colour, people with disabilities, people who are LGBT or people who might not be white British.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

So your 'evidence' is your subjective opinion. Obviously you are entitled to an opinion but that doesn't constitute evidence.

Do you have counter evidence? Do you know for a fact that there are not people sitting in boardrooms looking at a list of names to choose from, going back and forward making sure that every aspect of inclusion is covered ? Or is that your subjective opinion ?

 

[thegirlscout]

It's tricky to have a discussion about what is and isn't "woke" because there isn't one agreed definition of the word.

Some seem to think any time a minority is featured in anything (eg a TV show) it's automatically woke. Even though there are lots of minorities in this country and, therefore, it would seem logical that said minorities feature.

If gay relationships are featured in, say, a TV soap, some people will say "why do they have to have gay storylines? More of the woke agenda at play". Yet if me and my same sex partner moved in next door to someone like that, it's unlikely they'd say: "this street is becoming so woke", because it's real life - so there's clearly no perceived agenda. It's then just accepted that a minority exists nearby.

I do understand the arguments about 'positive discrimination' - eg when someone's protected characteristic plays a factor in being selected for a role. Clearly someone should get a job based solely on merit. However, I don't always have an issue with it because historically minorities have been disadvantaged and, therefore, it seems fair to level the playing field. At least in some circumstances.

I don't really see the BBC as being woke, though. I know Doctor Who and Strictly have been used as examples, but I don't personally care if Doctor Who is a woman or black because it's a fictional character who has always regenerated into different guises. I can't really take issue with fiction. With Strictly, why shouldn't there be disabled or gay contestants? They're still very much a minority in similar proportions to the real world.

Speaking as a minority, it's nice to see yourself represented on a large show when historically that representation just wasn't there. If I'd see two men dancing on TV when I was growing up, it would have helped me accept my sexuality more than I did. Of course it takes more than one appearance on a TV show, but when I was a teenager there was literally no representation - so I felt pretty much invisible.

It's a complex subject, but it's nice to discuss it civilly. We've all got voices to add to the subject and we should all listen to and respect each other. Otherwise we'll never move forward.

Woke comes from AAVE and originally meant someone who was aware of racial prejudice and discrimination, but it seems to be used more often as an insult now against identity politics and social justice etc. I do think part of the issues around ‘woke’ is a push back from things being performative.

 

[Ensay]

It's tricky to have a discussion about what is and isn't "woke" because there isn't one agreed definition of the word.

Some seem to think any time a minority is featured in anything (eg a TV show) it's automatically woke. Even though there are lots of minorities in this country and, therefore, it would seem logical that said minorities feature.

If gay relationships are featured in, say, a TV soap, some people will say "why do they have to have gay storylines? More of the woke agenda at play". Yet if me and my same sex partner moved in next door to someone like that, it's unlikely they'd say: "this street is becoming so woke", because it's real life - so there's clearly no perceived agenda. It's then just accepted that a minority exists nearby.

I do understand the arguments about 'positive discrimination' - eg when someone's protected characteristic plays a factor in being selected for a role. Clearly someone should get a job based solely on merit. However, I don't always have an issue with it because historically minorities have been disadvantaged and, therefore, it seems fair to level the playing field. At least in some circumstances.

I don't really see the BBC as being woke, though. I know Doctor Who and Strictly have been used as examples, but I don't personally care if Doctor Who is a woman or black because it's a fictional character who has always regenerated into different guises. I can't really take issue with fiction. With Strictly, why shouldn't there be disabled or gay contestants? They're still very much a minority in similar proportions to the real world.

Speaking as a minority, it's nice to see yourself represented on a large show when historically that representation just wasn't there. If I'd see two men dancing on TV when I was growing up, it would have helped me accept my sexuality more than I did. Of course it takes more than one appearance on a TV show, but when I was a teenager there was literally no representation - so I felt pretty much invisible.

It's a complex subject, but it's nice to discuss it civilly. We've all got voices to add to the subject and we should all listen to and respect each other. Otherwise we'll never move forward.

 

[wibble]

my main issue with the idea of “woke” is that it indirectly invalidates any type of non-white casting. the new doctor who was immediately shouted down as woke casting with absolutely no consideration that he may genuinely have been the best person who auditioned. open casting has to work all ways in that the best person for the part gets the part. sometimes that person may not be white (obviously this is restrictions permitting if they’re playing a real person). i don’t particularly like when people are immediately discredited as being a woke casting. if the new james bond is a poc then i fully expect the same thing to happen.

That wasn't why people criticised the new Dr Who.

It was because of what Russell T Davis said at the unveiling of Ncuti Gatwa.

By now people know it is fan baiting.
But frankly for a show that is so flat on it's arse that they had to bring back David Tennnent, with the worst viewing figures it has ever had, and worst of all it has a fan base that is apathetic.... for them to think that fan baiting is a good strategy is nuts.

In fact most people were rather optimistic that Sony were producing the show, that Russell T Davis was returning... especially after Chibnall and Jodie Whitaker (whose biggest problem wasn't that she was a woman (well if you ignore the fan baiting bullshit she came out with in interviews), but that she had an unfortunate lip curl that meant she spent half the time sneering - which is never a good look for a hero)

People can see Ncuti Gatwa is black but instead of talking about the character, we get all the usual passive aggressiveness and cliches...
And then we get "oh and he's gay too"... as if Captain Jack isn't a thing ... and no one has seen Queer as Folk.
And fair enough people probably don't want to watch rimming over the Tardis console on a Saturday teatime, but I'm sure the odd bit of male gaze won't lead to an implosion of civilisation.

But more to the point...
It isn't new.
It isn't exciting.
And Mr Gatwa isn't employed to be representative of anything other than Dr Who.

Oh and stand by for the PR nonsense about bringing in a new audience.
Oh yeah....
And the storylines about Trump, Global Warming and Brexit... you know.... the same storylines that wrecked Star Trek and Star Wars.
And marvel (pun intended) when the new audience doesn't materialise... and the already apathetic pre-existing audience doesn't bother to watch.

As for "i don’t particularly like when people are immediately discredited as being a woke casting."
Blame the guidelines, that for some reason the people who complain about the people who complain about woke pretend don't exist.
I'll pick Amazon film studios as an example....

Casting Process and Breakdowns

Auditioning and Casting Process Once the casting director is on board, work with them to determine which roles are already committed (due to packaging or other contractual obligations) and which are open. Then develop a plan for auditioning. Examine the script to find out: Based on the demands...

dei.amazonstudios.com

" Are you casting a person whose identity matches the role they are playing?
E.g., are you casting a person of Puerto Rican heritage to play a character who is Colombian? "

That is the same Amazon, that hid unfavourable reviews, made up stories about review bombing (ignoring it required having an Amazon subscription in order to leave a negative review) and has had the cast of Rings of Power for the past few months bitching about the audience and banging on about racism and how they have the first female dwarf of colour (no they don't), and picking a fight over a black elf.

When in reality whatever criticism there was on these matters has long since passed, to the more general complaint that show was pretentious, non-sensical, generic, has nothing to do with Tolkein, and most importantly is boring.

At which point clicking on another tab on the Amazon website....
We find this...

Stereotypes in Storytelling: Race & Ethnicity

Including creative voices from the community is the best and most precise way to avoid stereotyping, but all people are prone to stereotypes and bias. Below are questions to act as speed bumps in the storytelling process, to avoid common stereotypes. For Black characters:● Are they shown in...

dei.amazonstudios.com

And laughably this caution when casting "black characters"...

" Are they presented in positions that are linked to entertaining others? "

Not in Rings of Power they aren't.

And by the time Doctor Who has spent the obligatory first season reminding the audience that Ncuti Gatwa (who was good in Sex Education) is black, that racism is a thing, that white people are evil (mainly on account of being the only people allowed to be cast in such roles (which is good news for white character actors)), that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy, and that Brexit is whatever contagion it is supposed to be this week....

It doesn't take a genius to work out that by the end of the first season Mr Gatwa won't be presented in a position linked with entertaining others either.
And he'll be fan baiting with the best of them.

 

[IngressUK]

It's tricky to have a discussion about what is and isn't "woke" because there isn't one agreed definition of the word.

A very good example of woke is on the BBC most days at present - Gary Lineker.

He is supposed to be out in Qatar providing commentary for the World Cup. Instead we are bored to tears with his endless monologues on every woke subject going (climate change, homophobia in a Islamic country, etc), rather than telling us the goings on with the World Cup.

I would be very surprised if he wasn't hemorrhaging viewership for the BBC coverage.

He clearly isn't fit for purpose hosting the BBC's football coverage. I'm sure there are plenty out there that would love to do the job - without the endless virtue signalling that comes out of his gob.

What Gary fails to notice is that the UK is becoming ever flooded with people from countries where he seems to detest their religious beliefs. What happens in the future when there are enough people of the same mindset in the UK, for things like gay, trans, non binary and women's rights to be thrown on the bonfire?

What will he do then?

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

So do you think that would happen if the best person for playing Martin Luther King was white?

Well, there would be an outcry, wouldn’t there ? And rightly so.

 

[wibble]

I do struggle to understand what people mean when they say the casting of so-and-so is 'box ticking' - a phrase exclusively used for people of colour, people with disabilities, people who are LGBT or people who might not be white British.

Oh there are many more tick boxes than that...
And there always have been...

swearing
sexual content
violence
to some extent fridging
increasingly the bechdel test
to name but a few.

And oddly enough none of them have anything to do with your supposed "exclusive" list.
Though it is worth pointing out that there is whole other list of tick boxes that applies to the catagories on your list... as to how they can be portrayed and in what roles, who can write them, etc...

On what basis are you claiming that people aren't being chosen based on their skills, suitability or expertise? Where is your evidence for that?

She Hulk.