There are better people than me who have the patience to debate this with you. If you got that from my response then fair enough. You lost me at ‘cis’ to be honest.
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don’t know why people are so averse to that word. I don’t always use it out of context, only when I talk about trans stuff.
I’m lucky enough that I’m able bodied and don’t have bladder/bowel issues (actually I have IBS but I know my triggers) because I’d hate to be forced to reveal myself just for the privilege of using the loos if I’m in public. That alone would be absolutely humiliating.
just being curious, what’s your (everyone here) stance on trans men using men’s bathrooms? assuming they pass as men. wouldn’t you be weirded out seeing a trans man using women’s loos in that case? is it suddenly ok if they have a tina? see how all of this seems illogical to me.
ETA: trans women don’t feel safe using men’s loos, so I guess possible solutions would involve including unisex bathrooms for those who feel comfortable using them, or a designated trans/NB bathroom (which would invite violence too, imo). I suppose they can use disabled loos but I can’t see disablity companies doling out keys for trans people to use?
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Firstly, men have pretended to be trans to access female prisons and bathrooms. We know this.
Secondly, you don’t have to literally transition to access female spaces - just throw on a frock (or, indeed, don’t bother) and waltz right in. Women and girls are told to “embrace their discomfort” because that helps you grow as a person (conveniently forgetting that this discomfort is basic common sense and self-preservation). Also, cross dressers count as being under the “trans umbrella“ according to the likes of Stonewall. Apparently we shouldn’t distinguish between genuine transgender people and cross dressers, because they’re one and the same.
Finally, I’ve seen more than once on this thread that rapists are just going to go ahead and grape if they want to, and protected single sex spaces just don’t matter because a predator will barge in if they want to. All I can say to that is... what the duck kind of counter argument is that? We’re supposed to just give up on protecting women and girls because rapists gonna grape?
no, I didn’t mean it like that. I’m just saying that violent men and rapists are going to do it, regardless of location and the law. It even happens within relationships (speaking from experience).
I’m aware that men pretend to be trans women but that’s the keyword, pretend. They’re not genuinely trans, and trans women shouldn’t be lumped with those kinda men and be punished for it.
I may be wrong but I don’t think cross dressers (some men are heterosexual) and drag queens fall under the trans umbrella. I understand the discomfort of seeing a man in women’s loos, I’m just curious about trans women who are transitioning, like they haven’t had facial surgery, etc. yet but which bathroom should they use? They don’t feel safe using men’s, which leaves the disabled toilets, and that can be problematic for disabled people who genuinely need to use the designated bathroom. I think trans/NB designated bathrooms would be seen as “othering” and can be costly/time consuming, IDK.
If trans women don’t feel safe using the men’s, and this means they have to use the women’s, why are women told to get over it (not putting words in your mouth but that’s what it boils down to) if they feel uncomfortable at a trans woman using the loo?
there needs to be a third space, a trans bathroom. It’s not othering. It’s common sense and safety. IMO
there needs to be a third space, a trans bathroom. It’s not othering. It’s common sense and safety. IMO
But that’s the crux of the matter - how do women tell the difference between a predatory man in a dress and a harmless transwoman? And you can’t say it’s their appearance, because very few transwomen “pass”. I don’t say that to be unkind. We can all spot a male physique out of the corner of our eyes. The height, the build, the mannerisms. That’s why this talk about “policing genitals” to permit entry into the ladies is silly as well. No one needs to check someone’s genitals to know their sex. Even the butchest woman still looks like a woman. A man looks like a man.
Cross dressers and transvestites (who, yes, are mostly straight men - it’s called autogynephilia) ARE all now under the trans umbrella. A quick google search corroborates this.
Costly? Nah. Plenty of workplaces and public spaces (theatres etc) are trialling unisex loos. All you need to do is take the “Ladies” sign off the door and change it to “Unisex”.
The men’s stays the men’s of course. Because urinals.
So, not a third space as such. Women just have to step aside.
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you make a good point. we do deserve a designated space for safety and I understand the concerns re. letting trans women access women’s toilets. I’m just reading through this thread and it’s giving me a lot to think about. I actually don’t think trans women should be allowed to participate in female sport events, there is a total disadvantage. I just think we should look for solutions where trans people have rights without impinging women only spaces, rights and safety.
JK Rowling made a point about sex based illnesses/diseases; I disagree because if a trans woman has prostate cancer, she’ll still have treatment for it. Just don’t deny treatments and misgender. Gender dysphoria is painful enough without being afflicted with sex based illnesses. It’s similar to (bio) men who have breast cancer, they still get treatment and aren’t misgendered.
ETA: @maytoseptember, just read your post! just wanted to make it clear that I’m not ignoring you.
First of all, I'm not sure what him being a gay man (I won't use the word cis) has got to do with anything. He was there and is setting the record straight on what happened. There is no point trying to rewrite history. The Nazi quote is from the Nazi propaganda minister, he's not comparing trans people to Nazis, he's making the point that if you spread enough lies people will eventually believe it. It's an insult to the people who were actually involved that TRAs (I don't mean you, I mean those that started this falsehood) have attributed this to someone else. It just smacks of jumping on the BLM movement too by claiming it was a black trans woman
Regarding the bathroom, would you be happy with this person ("Danielle Muscato") entering the bathroom at the same time? Thanks to the modern cult ideology we are supposed to accept this person as a woman, no questions asked. I can tell you that if this person entered a changing room, bathroom, etc, my guard would be going up and it would be staying there.
Suggesting that Jk Rowling is putting their lives in danger is absurd. To be frank, seeing the disgusting abuse and threats she has been on the receiving end of, I think it is her who put her own life in danger
This is an excellent article on Emma Watson and her empty slogan
Emma Watson Is the Face of Hermione Granger, Without the Intellect
Emma Watson decrees people are who they say they are. Would she apply that to Rachel Dolezal? Don't trans people deserve better than incoherent sound bites?
uncommongroundmedia.com
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Thanks for reading through the thread. I think we all agree on this point.
Leaving this here
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I havent read the whole threat so Im sorry if I am saying things that dont go here.
I never understood why people dislike or hate transpeople. A collegue of mine recently starting to transition. Before I knew him as 'her' but now its him. I liked him before and the person hasnt changed, he just looks different. And his whole attitude is different, I know see a confident and happy man who can be who he wants to be. So should I start disliking him now I know him by a different name?
Its sad that peple took years to get the courage to become who they really are but with that might come even more risk of sexual abuse or even murder.
Now ill step back and will read this threat, my apologies!
I never understood why people dislike or hate transpeople. A collegue of mine recently starting to transition. Before I knew him as 'her' but now its him. I liked him before and the person hasnt changed, he just looks different. And his whole attitude is different, I know see a confident and happy man who can be who he wants to be. So should I start disliking him now I know him by a different name?
Its sad that peple took years to get the courage to become who they really are but with that might come even more risk of sexual abuse or even murder.
Now ill step back and will read this threat, my apologies!
Transwomen who have gone through the whole process are not crossdressers. I said men who still have a pen, stubble, and wear women's clothing are cross dressers...if a man still has a pen, is wearing women's clothing but wants to be called "she/her" that does not make them a woman. Some men out there won't even wear women's clothing, they just want to be called "she/her" while still looking like a man. I do not think a man with a pen should be allowed in woman's facilities. To me, transwomen is someone who's in the process of taking hormones or had surgery. If you have a pen you are still a man. I don't think I can make it any clearer.he is a crossdresser and yes, he's taking the piss, but yesterday you called transwomen 'men who crossdress', too. Which is not what they are and you never even addressed that
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Sorry but this is incorrect. Gender identity is not linked in any way to surgery - people can be transgender without having, or indeed planning to have surgery. It is purely the gender that you identify with.
And that's why some of us are gender critical- just identifying with a sex does not make you the exact same as a woman. It should not make the word woman a dirty word where it can't be used without causing offence. If someone identifies with being a woman, that's fine, and I will call them by their preferred pronouns but the modern gender ideology decrees that we accept them as the exact same as us and they should be allowed into our private spaces
Women are a sex, not a gender identity
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Has everyone seen Hannah Tay’s YouTube video?
The more I hear about Mermaids the more Worried I get. Definitely the next grooming child abuse scandal that’s going to come out
The more I hear about Mermaids the more Worried I get. Definitely the next grooming child abuse scandal that’s going to come out
@SqualorVictoria
For any misunderstanding, to quote you here: ‘To me, transwomen is someone who's in the process of taking hormones or had surgery. If you have a pen you are still a man’
This is not correct and would be extremely offensive to a trans woman (perhaps one who is yet to begin a physical transition or has chosen not to, both equally valid scenarios).
I have spent a long time reading through these posts and it has been fascinating to see an open forum sharing a wider variety of viewpoints and opinions. I have taught Gender within an A Level Psychology course for many years and it my job and duty to continue to educate on all aspects of both vernacular and current case studies.
I strongly believe that we are entitled to our opinion - however, sometimes opinions are based are incorrect information - see above - and to me, this would indicate further education. You don’t have to agree with what is said, but it doesn’t seem fair to quote ‘pen = man’ etc when this is now not technically nor legally the case
For any misunderstanding, to quote you here: ‘To me, transwomen is someone who's in the process of taking hormones or had surgery. If you have a pen you are still a man’
This is not correct and would be extremely offensive to a trans woman (perhaps one who is yet to begin a physical transition or has chosen not to, both equally valid scenarios).
I have spent a long time reading through these posts and it has been fascinating to see an open forum sharing a wider variety of viewpoints and opinions. I have taught Gender within an A Level Psychology course for many years and it my job and duty to continue to educate on all aspects of both vernacular and current case studies.
I strongly believe that we are entitled to our opinion - however, sometimes opinions are based are incorrect information - see above - and to me, this would indicate further education. You don’t have to agree with what is said, but it doesn’t seem fair to quote ‘pen = man’ etc when this is now not technically nor legally the case
So if we hypothetically introduce a third changing space for trans women, what is there to protect them from men pretending to be trans to access these areas to specifically attack trans women? I’m sure if you looked at statistics, male on trans woman crime is significantly higher than the instances where a man pretending to be trans attacks a woman in a female only space.
I agree we need to protect women but I feel like in that discussion, trans people are an after thought. People want to protect women with little disregard for the safety of trans women who are being shunned because of male predators that are nothing to do with them.
I don’t believe we shoulda stop protecting women because rapists will always exist but I do think we need to stop blaming women’s behaviour/clothes/intoxication for their own grape, in the same way we need to stop blaming the existence of trans women for assaults carried out by these male predators.
I agree we need to protect women but I feel like in that discussion, trans people are an after thought. People want to protect women with little disregard for the safety of trans women who are being shunned because of male predators that are nothing to do with them.
I don’t believe we shoulda stop protecting women because rapists will always exist but I do think we need to stop blaming women’s behaviour/clothes/intoxication for their own grape, in the same way we need to stop blaming the existence of trans women for assaults carried out by these male predators.
Perhaps internally they feel like a woman. But physically/biologically a pen makes someone a man. I don't understand why people keep trying to argue that. I stand by what I say. If an individual still looks like a man/has a pen then I do not want him to use women's facilities.
Woman isn’t a feeling. Female isn’t a feeling. I don’t FEEL like a woman. I am one. It’s my biology. How does someone born, raised and socialised male know that they feel like a woman?
Well it wasn't actually me that said that but either way, I do agree with it. Gender dysphoria is rare but within the new trans ideology, anyone can identify as a woman just because they say so. One might be more comfortable calling themselves a trans woman but that does not mean they are a woman. Trans women are not women, trans women are trans women. That's really the long and short of it
Yeah I saw it, she was remarkably brave to speak up publicly in this current climate. Good on her
Let me ask this again. Would people be honestly comfortable with this person being in the female toilets with them? The thought of this person being allowed into the womens toilets sets me on edge. It makes me fearful for all my nieces futures if that's the norm and women are told to just accept it because "trans women are who they say they are". Actually, it not only makes me fearful, it makes me furious.
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