Gender discussions

[kat.becs]

Can I just say you sound like an incredibly loving and sensible mother and your son is so lucky to have someone so supportive in his life.

And thank you for engaging in discussion in a civil way without just throwing around terf insults. Although we may not share the same views I have found your posts on this thread very insightful.

Thank you! That means a lot. I question myself a lot - think the best thing is to just let him lead and teach me half the time because I have no bloody clue sometimes Think that's just what being a parent is about though.

And well, there's certainly many opinions on here that I haven't agreed with, but neither side will gain anything from arguing about them.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

To the poster that wondered why we're not on Twitter, I thought you might like to know that its come to light that some peoples employers have been contacted by activists in an effort to doxx them. That's right, let that sink in. Women are being harassed for daring to speak up. This is truly frightening

Some activists are trying to destroy womens lives. I really am scared for the future of society

Just leaving this here

 

[bubbletea123]

To the poster that wondered why we're not on Twitter, I thought you might like to know that its come to light that some peoples employers have been contacted by activists in an effort to doxx them. That's right, let that sink in. Women are being harassed for daring to speak up. This is truly frightening

Some activists are trying to destroy womens lives. I really am scared for the future of society

Just leaving this here

bleeping gross. And what a double standard re Scarlett and Eddie. I remember people being OUTRAGED about Scarlett. Can't stand Eddie.

 

[Halloumifries45]

This!!

 

[bubbletea123]

This!!

Monster.

 

[kat.becs]

This!!

that's disgusting. Trans factor aside why would ANYONE even do that

 

[PoleStar]

Just gonna leave this here

J. K. Rowling and the trans activists: a story in screenshots

Part 1

medium.com

Wow, just wow. In my opinion the minute people resort to foul language to try and force their views on others and destroy any rational discussion they've automatically lost the argument.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Wow, just wow. In my opinion the minute people resort to foul language to try and force their views on others and destroy any rational discussion they've automatically lost the argument.

I saw an argument on Twitter that stated that the abuse she got is a picnic compared to the daily abuse trans people get. WTF!

 

[Zenchick101]

Wow, just wow. In my opinion the minute people resort to foul language to try and force their views on others and destroy any rational discussion they've automatically lost the argument.

funny how a lot of those insults were choke on my d***? That's the type of abuse women get from aggressive men they reject/annoy/frustrate etc.. some of those replies were from Trans women- now please note not all, but those trans women are disgusting and are reacting the way a man would to a woman upsetting him. Ironic. If you're a trans women who doesn't react like that I love you.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

funny how a lot of those insults were choke on my d***? That's the type of abuse women get from aggressive men they reject/annoy/frustrate etc.. some of those replies were from Trans women- now please note not all, but those trans women are disgusting and are reacting the way a man would to a woman upsetting him. Ironic. If you're a trans women who doesn't react like that I love you.

And that's the sinister side of this ideology. It's alarming. I'm sure there are many trans people who wouldn't behave like that but their voices arent being heard. They're being drowned out by the zealots. Who in turn are ruining it for everyone

 

[bubbletea123]

Wow, just wow. In my opinion the minute people resort to foul language to try and force their views on others and destroy any rational discussion they've automatically lost the argument.

Far left can be just as bad as right wing/extreme Trump supporters in their extreme views and abusive messages.

 

[Zenchick101]

Far left can be just as bad as right wing/extreme Trump supporters in their extreme views and abusive messages.

100% isn't debate/questions etc.. the way we moved past history's horrible events? segragation, slavery, north african colonization. Would change have happened if someone hadn't raised a question/concern wether right or wrong?

100% isn't debate/questions etc.. the way we moved past history's horrible events? segragation, slavery, north african colonization. Would change have happened if someone hadn't raised a question/concern wether right or wrong?
If debates hadn't happened not sure how we would have moved on from that.

 

[kat.becs]

The bathroom debate is a tricky one for me.

Like I said previously, my son looks like a boy. He’d be accepted in the men’s bathroom as a boy easily. Unless someone looked at him real closely but I doubt that would happen. But he worries about that, I think because of the whole bathroom debate saga. He has also had an incident of being told to leave at school which I think has scared him. (But I did tell him to stick to the disabled bathroom at school as people knew he was trans- and either sex probably wouldn’t enjoy him using the bathroom. It sucked for him a little but of course he understood).

But if he goes into the female bathroom, which obviously aligns with his biological sex, which he does if there’s no other option and if he’s desperate, people give him the looks and he’s been told to leave there too before.

Obviously the solution is a unisex bathroom which is sometimes provided but not always. And if it is then it’s in the form of a disabled bathroom and then he can get dirty looks then also. So while I understand that people may not want transwomen in the women’s, sometimes right now there’s no choice. If they went into the men’s they’d get abuse and if they go into the women’s, nobody would even notice. It’s not always for some necessarily about wanting to be seen as the gender they identify as, but about not wanting to deal with conflict or speculation.

Obviously this is why places need the middle ground option but I still think even that wouldn’t solve the dilemma completely because trans people could still use the bathroom of the gender they identify as without people even being aware that they’re trans or don’t have the genitals for that sex.

I don’t know. And please don’t get me wrong at all, I completely get why women are concerned and I’m not trying to diminish them.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The bathroom debate is a tricky one for me.

Like I said previously, my son looks like a boy. He’d be accepted in the men’s bathroom as a boy easily. Unless someone looked at him real closely but I doubt that would happen. But he worries about that, I think because of the whole bathroom debate saga. He has also had an incident of being told to leave at school which I think has scared him. (But I did tell him to stick to the disabled bathroom at school as people knew he was trans- and either sex probably wouldn’t enjoy him using the bathroom. It sucked for him a little but of course he understood).

But if he goes into the female bathroom, which obviously aligns with his biological sex, which he does if there’s no other option and if he’s desperate, people give him the looks and he’s been told to leave there too before.

Obviously the solution is a unisex bathroom which is sometimes provided but not always. And if it is then it’s in the form of a disabled bathroom and then he can get dirty looks then also. So while I understand that people may not want transwomen in the women’s, sometimes right now there’s no choice. If they went into the men’s they’d get abuse and if they go into the women’s, nobody would even notice. It’s not always for some necessarily about wanting to be seen as the gender they identify as, but about not wanting to deal with conflict or speculation.

Obviously this is why places need the middle ground option but I still think even that wouldn’t solve the dilemma completely because trans people could still use the bathroom of the gender they identify as without people even being aware that they’re trans or don’t have the genitals for that sex.

I don’t know. And please don’t get me wrong at all, I completely get why women are concerned and I’m not trying to diminish them.

Thank you for posting this. Truly.

 

[bubbletea123]

The bathroom debate is a tricky one for me.

Like I said previously, my son looks like a boy. He’d be accepted in the men’s bathroom as a boy easily. Unless someone looked at him real closely but I doubt that would happen. But he worries about that, I think because of the whole bathroom debate saga. He has also had an incident of being told to leave at school which I think has scared him. (But I did tell him to stick to the disabled bathroom at school as people knew he was trans- and either sex probably wouldn’t enjoy him using the bathroom. It sucked for him a little but of course he understood).

But if he goes into the female bathroom, which obviously aligns with his biological sex, which he does if there’s no other option and if he’s desperate, people give him the looks and he’s been told to leave there too before.

Obviously the solution is a unisex bathroom which is sometimes provided but not always. And if it is then it’s in the form of a disabled bathroom and then he can get dirty looks then also. So while I understand that people may not want transwomen in the women’s, sometimes right now there’s no choice. If they went into the men’s they’d get abuse and if they go into the women’s, nobody would even notice. It’s not always for some necessarily about wanting to be seen as the gender they identify as, but about not wanting to deal with conflict or speculation.

Obviously this is why places need the middle ground option but I still think even that wouldn’t solve the dilemma completely because trans people could still use the bathroom of the gender they identify as without people even being aware that they’re trans or don’t have the genitals for that sex.

I don’t know. And please don’t get me wrong at all, I completely get why women are concerned and I’m not trying to diminish them.

Thank you so much for sharing your opinions and having a good discussion with us.

Please know, I am not anti-trans. However I do think there is a rise of individuals who are being very extreme, in fact, most people I notice yelling the loudest about these extreme measures are not trans themselves.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Thank you so much for sharing your opinions and having a good discussion with us.

Please know, I am not anti-trans. However I do think there is a rise of individuals who are being very extreme, in fact, most people I notice yelling the loudest about these extreme measures are not trans themselves.

Yeah exactly. And it's the extreme shouty zealots who are actually getting in the way of progression. They're ruining it for everyone

 

[kat.becs]

Thank you for posting this. Truly.

Just my two cents I ramble.

I 100% see both sides. It’s very tricky.

For my son he doesn’t really care about going in to the men’s bathroom - he just wants somewhere to go. So he’ll be happy about a unisex one but sadly they’re not always there.

So then he has the dilemma of “Who do I risk pissing off?’ A woman or a man? Or in some cases, a disabled person that might see him walking out of the accessible bathroom?

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I saw an argument on Twitter that stated that the abuse she got is a picnic compared to the daily abuse trans people get. WTF!

So their answer to feeling misery in their own life is to spread even more misery? These people are insane. They may be a minority but they are incredibly vocal and violent with their words. You just can’t have an open discussion at all.

 

[Zenchick101]

The bathroom debate is a tricky one for me.

Like I said previously, my son looks like a boy. He’d be accepted in the men’s bathroom as a boy easily. Unless someone looked at him real closely but I doubt that would happen. But he worries about that, I think because of the whole bathroom debate saga. He has also had an incident of being told to leave at school which I think has scared him. (But I did tell him to stick to the disabled bathroom at school as people knew he was trans- and either sex probably wouldn’t enjoy him using the bathroom. It sucked for him a little but of course he understood).

But if he goes into the female bathroom, which obviously aligns with his biological sex, which he does if there’s no other option and if he’s desperate, people give him the looks and he’s been told to leave there too before.

Obviously the solution is a unisex bathroom which is sometimes provided but not always. And if it is then it’s in the form of a disabled bathroom and then he can get dirty looks then also. So while I understand that people may not want transwomen in the women’s, sometimes right now there’s no choice. If they went into the men’s they’d get abuse and if they go into the women’s, nobody would even notice. It’s not always for some necessarily about wanting to be seen as the gender they identify as, but about not wanting to deal with conflict or speculation.

Obviously this is why places need the middle ground option but I still think even that wouldn’t solve the dilemma completely because trans people could still use the bathroom of the gender they identify as without people even being aware that they’re trans or don’t have the genitals for that sex.

I don’t know. And please don’t get me wrong at all, I completely get why women are concerned and I’m not trying to diminish them.

Thank you for understanding, I've seen a lot of people diminish the possibility of cis men pretending to be trans to get in a womens bathrooms and yes they should be educated not to be abusers however where I am at least women are already less heard when it comes to crimes, this would be giving them another idea. I was touched innapropriate in public by a stranger as a child and when my mom was angry and asked where he went all the men were laughing - this was in europe btw.

This is nothing against you or your son I would love for him to have access to unisex bathrooms all the time just not mtf going into women's bathroom because that would send a bad precedent for other countries.

Thank you for understanding, I've seen a lot of people diminish the possibility of cis men pretending to be trans to get in a womens bathrooms and yes they should be educated not to be abusers however where I am at least women are already less heard when it comes to crimes, this would be giving them another idea. I was touched innapropriate in public by a stranger as a child and when my mom was angry and asked where he went all the men were laughing - this was in europe btw.

This is nothing against you or your son I would love for him to have access to unisex bathrooms all the time just not mtf going into women's bathroom because that would send a bad precedent for other countries.

- this was in the late 00's

 

[kat.becs]

Thank you for understanding, I've seen a lot of people diminish the possibility of cis men pretending to be trans to get in a womens bathrooms and yes they should be educated not to be abusers however where I am at least women are already less heard when it comes to crimes, this would be giving them another idea. I was touched innapropriate in public by a stranger as a child and when my mom was angry and asked where he went all the men were laughing - this was in europe btw.

This is nothing against you or your son I would love for him to have access to unisex bathrooms all the time just not mtf going into women's bathroom because that would send a bad precedent for other countries.

I’m sorry that happened to you and I do understand. It definitely is a possibility that men would do that, although personally I think the chance is small, obviously there is still a chance. And that’s enough to be concerned about.

I respect your opinion on the matter and I 100% understand, please don’t get me wrong- but my only sorta qualm with the ‘no MTF’ in the women’s bathroom at all is- how would you know? If that becomes a rule to protect women, how could they prove that? A large portion of trans women who have transitioned look just like any other woman, no matter what genitals they have. Again don’t get me wrong I understand but I have no idea how they would monitor that.