Gender discussions

Bitofthebubbly said:

Posted this in response to her tweets on the matter. It’s just not necessary is it?

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Jumping on the bandwagon to gain customers I see. Sad. Glad I don't really shop there.

Halloumifries45 said:

I posted on my Instagram story about jk Rowling and now have had 7 unfollowers!! A few who were really close friends

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I'm so sorry that happened. It does hurt I keep losing friends on fb too. But I just think these people who unfollow and say nothing are such cowards! At least defend your stance.

Prinstress said:

I posted on my story in solidarity with Jo and deleted the app from my phone. I don’t know if I’ll go back.

Was so relieved to find this thread last night, read through from the beginning and didn’t get to bed til 2ish. When I woke up this morning I burst into tears.

What can we do?

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So glad you found this place too Welcome! It is all extremely emotional so I totally get that.

Also a prick (straight guy) from uni commented on my fb post. He said JK being cursed at doesn't make her less ignorant, prejudiced, regressive, blah blah blah. He compared it to the Irish marriage equality referendum which is complete bullshit. And of course he had to bring up intersex people

I’m so horrified by this. Caroline Hirons, Lindsey Kelk, Justin Myers (The Guyliner- I’ve always liked him) are all queuing up to give her a kicking. Hatred of women is so deeply ingrained in us all. I can’t focus today.

4everb1tchin said:

There’s a reason why the majority of you come on here to share your opinions instead of speaking out on twitter. Theres a reason why people are unfriending you and there’s a reason why the majority aren’t taking what you say seriously Karen ...

If you’re fighting the good fight why hide?




Any trans women reading this thread please understand these women do NOT represent feminism. They want to exclude, bully and shout down a vulnerable group of women. As a cis-woman I’m deeply saddened by the transphobic venom and hate being shared in this thread

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Nope, we don't say it on Twitter because it's notorious for being a cesspool of an echo chamber. And I don't fancy being called a cunt that needs to be raped, thanks.

You STILL have not countered any of our very valid arguments on here, so that says it all really. TRAs work off of pure emotion and not logic.

jewelkitty said:

Nope, we don't say it on Twitter because it's notorious for being a cesspool of an echo chamber. And I don't fancy being called a cunt that needs to be raped, thanks.

You STILL have not countered any of our very valid arguments on here, so that says it all really. TRAs work off of pure emotion and not logic.

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Anyone who uses a term like "Karen" tells me all I need to know about them. Oh and yes Twitter, the place that is so renowned for it's nuanced debate

Also, the poster has missed the point (as per) that many people here are afraid to speak on it.

Also Tom Felton liked JK's tweets. Babe!

jewelkitty said:

Nope, we don't say it on Twitter because it's notorious for being a cesspool of an echo chamber. And I don't fancy being called a cunt that needs to be raped, thanks.

You STILL have not countered any of our very valid arguments on here, so that says it all really. TRAs work off of pure emotion and not logic.

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Funny now that users post is now gone, or I’ve been blocked. Dunno how blocking works on this site.

But it says it all really. No logical response to literally any of the points that have been made on this thread, no comments on sports or domestic violence shelters. Just yet more insults, what a surprise. I was on twitter for a long time talking about this stuff actually, but I took my account down awhile ago because it wasn’t doing my mental health any good. It’s got nothing to do with being ashamed of my views but it gets very exhausting having to constantly explain why women’s rights and spaces are under threat whilst simultaneously being told I am a bitch and a cunt and people acting like I hate trans people with every fibre of my being (of course I don’t).

Also, ‘the majority’ aren’t taking us seriously? How could you possibly know what the majority of the world thinks on this issue? FYI the majority of people aren’t on Twitter. Most people keep it to themselves because of people like you are using emotive language to guilt people who have opposing and valid thoughts on the matter into silence.

Bitofthebubbly said:

Funny now that users post is now gone, or I’ve been blocked. Dunno how blocking works on this site.

But it says it all really. No logical response to literally any of the points that have been made on this thread, no comments on sports or domestic violence shelters. Just yet more insults, what a surprise. I was on twitter for a long time talking about this stuff actually, but I took my account down awhile ago because it wasn’t doing my mental health any good. It’s got nothing to do with being ashamed of my views but it gets very exhausting having to constantly explain why women’s rights and spaces are under threat.

Also, ‘the majority’ aren’t taking us seriously? How could you possibly know what the majority of the world thinks on this issue? Most people keep it to themselves because of people like you are using emotive language to guilt people who have opposing thoughts on the matter into silence.

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Yeah I can't see it now either, think we might be blocked. Oh well!

jewelkitty said:

Also Tom Felton liked JK's tweets. Babe!

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I think he unliked it again though? I might be wrong.

rosemarina said:

I think he unliked it again though? I might be wrong.

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Damn, so he did!! I literally saw his like about an hour ago. How sad.

jewelkitty said:

Damn, so he did!! I literally saw his like about an hour ago. How sad.

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Terrible, isn’t it?

rosemarina said:

The tone of the BS post is so “white male”, isn’t it?

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Well they’ve just lost another customer.

Hmmmm, I’m not convinced by the argument that if you don’t post something on Twitter it must be because you know you’re wrong.

The atmosphere on Twitter is quite scary and I keep thinking about teenagers looking for guidance and finding adults including celebrities losing their shit over opposing views. I dread to think how that must feel if you have questions and fears.

We adults need to get our heads out our asses and lead by example and invite people with opposing views to speak freely and show not just trans individuals but all people that it’s ok to hear other people’s thoughts. The world won’t end. And maybe you disagree with 9 things they say but actually, you do agree with 1 thing. Maybe you think their overall message is a bit damaging but you do see what they mean. Maybe you trust that the person has experienced violence and is speaking from a place of authentic care for other human beings.

Obviously for a marginalised group this is less clear because there is the fear that the dominant narrative will stall progress and so I can understand the urge to shut that down and characterise it as evil. I wonder how we can unite and create a narrative which meets the needs of the trans community and address the concerns about the misogynistic nature of parts of the movement. I hope it isn’t true that it has to be a competition.

I would urge anyone who is cancelling opposing views to consider the example they’re setting and how they would feel if the same tactics were applied to a new topic. Because the upcoming generation will learn this way of behaving and it won’t just be trans issues in the mix.

Emma Watson’s tweet sounds so robotic. No feeling to it at all not like JK’s statement. Love this reply though

I don't want to get in to an argument and I don't want to get jumped on again. I am reading all the comments and not calling anyone names. I do have a different opinion to the majority in this thread and I do feel occasionally I need to add something for balance. The comment made about men just having to 'fill out a form' to get access to women's spaces is not correct and misleading. There is process in place, a 2 year process with supplementing documents including medical documents isn't 'just a form'

HaveSomeMilk said:

Quote from an Atlantic article:
"In my reporting I heard from several people who said that the word is particularly troubling for trans and gender-nonconforming people. “As a transgender woman, I consciously began trying to stop using guys some years ago,” says Brad Ward, a college counselor at a high school in Atherton, California. She added, “When I’m included with a group that is called guys, there’s some pain, since it takes me back to my male days in a way that I’d rather not go.”"

The term guys may have evolved to somewhat encompass everyone rather than just men but the remnants are still there and it can still leave a bad taste in people's mouth. It's not just "terfs" rallying against it. Clearly it makes some trans and gender-nonconforming people uncomfortable too.

Edit: source link here

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I had this conversation with some friends the other day (all women aka people who menstruate ) and I was the only one who said I didn’t really like being addressed as ‘guys’. They said they took it as gender neutral and we all said you end up looking like some deranged feminist if you dare say you don’t like it when there are obv bigger fish to fry. HOWEVER... my point was, would we EVER call a group of all men, or even mixed, ‘ladies/girls’ etc? No, and if we did it would be pointed out that we had addressed the men as such. I know it’s not a big deal but it’s just another small example of men being the normal and and women being ‘other’.

@holliebollie I don’t mind it too much myself (it depends on the context), but you can get to the heart of the matter quite quickly with straight men by saying ok, how many guys have you slept with, then?

Barb said:

I don't want to get in to an argument and I don't want to get jumped on again. I am reading all the comments and not calling anyone names. I do have a different opinion to the majority in this thread and I do feel occasionally I need to add something for balance. The comment made about men just having to 'fill out a form' to get access to women's spaces is not correct and misleading. There is process in place, a 2 year process with supplementing documents including medical documents isn't 'just a form'

Apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate

Apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate to legally change your gender.

www.gov.uk

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Not true yet.

There is a significant push for a change for the gender recognition act to include self id. Meaning there very well could be a time where all men have to do is say they identify as women to be allowed access to women’s spaces which has currently been postponed, for now (except in Scotland).

Source

No one is saying all trans women will take advantage of this potential new law, but predatory men may do, trans or not. It is just another barrier That protects women and girls being removed to appease a small minority. Why isn’t a unisex space enough? Why can’t they make their own shelters instead of imposing on female only shelters?

Bitofthebubbly said:

Not true yet.

There is a significant push for a change for the gender recognition act to include self id. Meaning there very well could be a time where all men have to do is say they identify as women to be allowed access to women’s spaces.

Source

No one is saying all trans women will take advantage of this potential new law, but predatory men may do, trans or not. It is just another barrier That protects women and girls being removed to appease a small minority. Why isn’t a unisex space enough? Why can’t they make their own shelters instead of imposing on female only shelters?

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That’s true. It’s happening here in Scotland, our government is pushing for it.