Gender Discussions #4

[annapolly]

Seen a transwoman on Facebook arguing they've discriminated against/made unsafe. Context was they joined an FB conversation on a character in Harry Potter by contributing that JKR is evil and a terf. They were told their comment wasn't relevant to what the thread was about.

It’s almost if the person had the privilege of experiencing what it’s like to be male and all that entails: people often agree with men over women purely because male voices are seen as more authoritative.

These people dress as women and ‘act’ like women but still have male entitlement.

 

[mindlessness]

I adored Lawrence Fox in Lewis so feel perpetually disappointed when he tweets dumb tit.

if anyone is looking for GC places online, check out Ovarit - I don't have an account but always find it a sane place to be! it was developed after the gender critical subreddit was shut down.

 

[maytoseptember]

I’m not on Instagram any more but there is a well known account with a man who wears pencil skirts and very high heels to work and puts his outfits of the day on. He’s married but his wife apparently is not allowed to wear his Louboutins if I remember a comment correctly. He does not identify as a woman, just loves skirts and heels (on him)

I think I know the one.

Talk about bringing your fetish to work If it was any other fetish (rubber gear, etc) it would obviously be frowned upon, but tight pencil skirts and high heels are A-OK because it’s brave and stunning.

Ah the 'be kind' brigade are the worst.

“Be kind” is shorthand for “be quiet”.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

I don't have an issue with trans women wearing women's clothing, including women's underwear. Of course they should. But I do have a problem with erasing the 'women's' part. From breastfeeding to periods, women are being erased. To be brutally honest, I feel a though 'women' and 'female' have become insults. I am a feminist (and I define that as being the belief that women should have the same opportunities as men) and will not stand by whilst my body and my fears, hopes and beliefs are weaponised against me.

Women have died to get us this far in Western society, with a long way to go before we have the meritocracy we are owed. Women around the world die in their thousands giving birth, they're abused, bought and sold, denied access to healthcare, even food. grape is used as a weapon, in war and in every street in every country on Earth. Female sex workers are seen as being an underclass, if they're grape or murdered, they're treated as though they somehow deserve it. How many tv crime dramas have women being grape, tortured and murderd? Most of them. In the US it is legal in multiple states for a man to marry a child. Female children endure the horror of genital mutilation in the UK. Women are trafficked into sex work, again in the UK.

The abuse and murder of women continues and I will not let anyone say that we are not allowed to be afraid of grape. grape is a billion times worse than hurt bloody feelings. I will not be attacked for wanting little girls and women alike to have access to female only toilets and changing rooms. Women refuges and prisons should again be safe places. I have been grape and I would rather wee in the street than go into an enclosed space alone with men. I do not want to have my knickers around my ankles and know men are outside my cubicle, particularly as the doors are never very strong and people can easily look under or over the doors.

I am really angry and I will not stand by and let this happen. We must defend ourselves. We are being attacked, abused and threatened for existing. These people are trying to redefine what it is to be female. But being female or male isn't a pick and mix. Many want to be legally allowed to change their gender on a whim. "Today I am going to be a woman." The Tories blocked this, thank god, but they keep trying. I hate the Tories, apart from this.

I'll try and calm down now, but before I do, can I please say the biggest thank you to Tattle for letting me say these things. Thank you too for this being a safe place to do so. It's virtually the only place where we can be honest and our voices heard.

What a wonderful post x

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I adored Lawrence Fox in Lewis so feel perpetually disappointed when he tweets dumb tit.

if anyone is looking for GC places online, check out Ovarit - I don't have an account but always find it a sane place to be! it was developed after the gender critical subreddit was shut down.

Can second Ovarit. I don’t post often over there but love reading it and knowing that a space that is truly for women exists on the internet. It’s not just talking about trans stuff either, they have a forum for video games which is my favourite as well as other interests.

 

[Zenchick101]

 

[emmer_moans]

So refreshing to see and hear men calling this stuff out. Wearing a bump and posing does not a pregnant woman make...
Also, obviously the photo is airbrushed sooooo smooth and “perfect” which would probably cause discomfort for actual pregnant women who may have cellulite, wobbly bits, swollen ankles, back pain, stretch marks etc, i.e. NORMAL physical aspects of the female body during pregnancy. Seeing some twitty lad airbrush himself to have hairless legs, no stretch marks and “perfect” bump and bottom is just ridiculous.

 

[jewelkitty]

Can second Ovarit. I don’t post often over there but love reading it and knowing that a space that is truly for women exists on the internet. It’s not just talking about trans stuff either, they have a forum for video games which is my favourite as well as other interests.

I third Ovarit!

OT but I keep meaning to say I very much appreciate your profile pic! Love Arthur Morgan

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I third Ovarit!

OT but I keep meaning to say I very much appreciate your profile pic! Love Arthur Morgan

He’s my favourite honestly. It was a tough choice between Arthur or Sadie as my avatar

 

[CosmicCreepers]

I have a question for you all, do you think I'm trans phobic for thinking this, I'm genuinely curious.

So I was speaking to my non binary friend the other day, and I was telling them about someone I saw on Twitter who uses he/him pronouns calling themselves a "les". I said to my non binary friend, I don't really understand why that person would want to call themselves a les (I am one too btw even though it has no relevance) as they identify as he. A les is a female attracted to females right? Like for me, I wouldn't mind dating a trans woman, or someone with a feminine body type as that's what I'm obvs attracted to. But I couldn't say "I'm in a les relationship" with someone who identifies as he, or am I being dumb? Cause that person is saying they feel like a man. I'd be in a straight relationship then? Regardless of what is in their pants?

Anyway my friend said that's kind of offensive for you to say lesbians cant be he/him but I said well I'm just confused, cause if they feel like a he/him then it would suggest being attracted to a female is a heterosexual feeling right? I apologised to them I said I'm sorry I feel awful now but they were like it's okay just know in future a les isnt always a woman.

I was gonna ask this on Twitter but know I would be raked over the coals for it.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Anyway my friend said that's kind of offensive for you to say lesbians cant be he/him

The face I just pulled reading this...
Lesbians are women who like women. It makes no sense for he/hims to be lesbians. Interestingly the only way I can see this working is if it is conceded that trans men are women - then, those trans men who like women are lesbians.
The ‘offensive’ thing here is how stupid that statement is tbh.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I was typing up a reply but didn't even know where to start. Logic and consistency is just not the order of the day with these people.

Another thing I'm growing tired of being expected to care about.
Women saying we don't feel safe sharing spaces we use the toilet, change, shower etc with people with penises - screamed at that we're terfs, bigots, transphobes, blah blah blahhhhh
Trans people seeing comments they don't like - this is Actual Violence TM, they don't feel safe because someone likes Harry Potter

Honestly I have zero patience for it anymore. I just can't bring myself to care. If you can't deal with people saying they like Harry Potter maybe you're too thin skinned to go on the internet? How do these people cope in the real world? Were they raised swaddled in cotton wool or something? Cannot relate.

Totally agree with this. Spoilt, coddled overgrown children who just are not used to hearing the word 'no'. How on earth do they cope with the daily inconveniences of life?

 

[emmer_moans]

I have a question for you all, do you think I'm trans phobic for thinking this, I'm genuinely curious.

So I was speaking to my non binary friend the other day, and I was telling them about someone I saw on Twitter who uses he/him pronouns calling themselves a "les". I said to my non binary friend, I don't really understand why that person would want to call themselves a les (I am one too btw even though it has no relevance) as they identify as he. A les is a female attracted to females right? Like for me, I wouldn't mind dating a trans woman, or someone with a feminine body type as that's what I'm obvs attracted to. But I couldn't say "I'm in a les relationship" with someone who identifies as he, or am I being dumb? Cause that person is saying they feel like a man. I'd be in a straight relationship then? Regardless of what is in their pants?

Anyway my friend said that's kind of offensive for you to say lesbians cant be he/him but I said well I'm just confused, cause if they feel like a he/him then it would suggest being attracted to a female is a heterosexual feeling right? I apologised to them I said I'm sorry I feel awful now but they were like it's okay just know in future a les isnt always a woman.

I was gonna ask this on Twitter but know I would be raked over the coals for it.

Twitter is not a safe place to ask this tbh. Here, is, however. I don’t think you should have apologised though I can understand it’s awkward upsetting friends. However overall they are just saying confusing things.

 

[Platformcrocs]

I apologised to them I said I'm sorry I feel awful now but they were like it's okay just know in future a les isnt always a woman.

I don't think you're being dumb at all. I don't get the logic here. A les is a gay woman. Men (or people who identify as men) cannot be lesbians. You can't just decide you're male and a les. Doesn't make sense.

That kinda goes back to what a lot of us have been saying all along. It's erasing women. Would this person expect les women to date them? Do they think les women who don't want to date someone who identifies as male are homo/transphobic etc?

 

[Vanelope]

I watched an Ian McKellen doc - didn’t realise he was part of the start of Stonewall. Do gay people resent at all the trans takeover of stonewall? Equal rights and marriage aside, we have come a long way but there is still prejudice against gay people in the world and Stonewall seems to devote all its time to the trans and gender debate, making everyone believe gender and not sex is a protected characteristic for example.

 

[holliebollie]

My uni course has done it again. Have to do an assignment about a pretend case. This sort of thing:
‘Zoe is 16 and identifies as female. She lives with her dad. She... she...’

No mention of being transgender. But identifies as a girl? So she IS a girl, yeh?! I feel like I want to email and say, so are you saying she’s trans? You can’t identify as male or female, you just are. Or will they peg me as a TERF because I refused to introduce myself with pronouns after my name

 

[emm]

Twitter is not a safe place to ask this tbh. Here, is, however. I don’t think you should have apologised though I can understand it’s awkward upsetting friends. However overall they are just saying confusing things.

I often wonder if this whole debate would have taken off in the way it has without platforms like Twitter

 

[emmer_moans]

I often wonder if this whole debate would have taken off in the way it has without platforms like Twitter

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I’ve come off it (deactivated my account) so I am not constantly seeing the stuff as it was making me really cross, but I’ll still hop on there to read articles posted here. I guess places like twitter means discussions and ideas are amplified and you can now essentially hound any celebs, writers and companies etc if they say something that doesn’t match what you think. It’s definitely an echo chamber. Back in the day if you wanted to complain you’d have to write to a PO Box and never hear back. Now Twitter is a witch hunt.

My uni course has done it again. Have to do an assignment about a pretend case. This sort of thing:
‘Zoe is 16 and identifies as female. She lives with her dad. She... she...’

No mention of being transgender. But identifies as a girl? So she IS a girl, yeh?! I feel like I want to email and say, so are you saying she’s trans? You can’t identify as male or female, you just are. Or will they peg me as a TERF because I refused to introduce myself with pronouns after my name

I wish there was an eye-roll emoji here. Just waiting for the International Women’s Day mailings in March to start coming through with this kind of phrasing.

 

[emm]

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I’ve come off it (deactivated my account) so I am not constantly seeing the stuff as it was making me really cross, but I’ll still hop on there to read articles posted here. I guess places like twitter means discussions and ideas are amplified and you can now essentially hound any celebs, writers and companies etc if they say something that doesn’t match what you think. It’s definitely an echo chamber. Back in the day if you wanted to complain you’d have to write to a PO Box and never hear back. Now Twitter is a witch hunt.


I wish there was an eye-roll emoji here. Just waiting for the International Women’s Day mailings in March to start coming through with this kind of phrasing.

yeah I agree, I have a twitter account but never really use it, the whole word limit thing just removes any room for nuance, I follow a couple of people that tweet funny things but anything serious is just too difficult to put in such few words imo

 

[Zenchick101]

I have a question for you all, do you think I'm trans phobic for thinking this, I'm genuinely curious.

So I was speaking to my non binary friend the other day, and I was telling them about someone I saw on Twitter who uses he/him pronouns calling themselves a "les". I said to my non binary friend, I don't really understand why that person would want to call themselves a les (I am one too btw even though it has no relevance) as they identify as he. A les is a female attracted to females right? Like for me, I wouldn't mind dating a trans woman, or someone with a feminine body type as that's what I'm obvs attracted to. But I couldn't say "I'm in a les relationship" with someone who identifies as he, or am I being dumb? Cause that person is saying they feel like a man. I'd be in a straight relationship then? Regardless of what is in their pants?

Anyway my friend said that's kind of offensive for you to say lesbians cant be he/him but I said well I'm just confused, cause if they feel like a he/him then it would suggest being attracted to a female is a heterosexual feeling right? I apologised to them I said I'm sorry I feel awful now but they were like it's okay just know in future a les isnt always a woman.

I was gonna ask this on Twitter but know I would be raked over the coals for it.

That's absolutely ridiculous. No offense to your friend, but whatever one wants to call themselves they will always be male or female. If you found Eliot/Ellen Page attractive, to normal people you'd still be a les because though she identifies as something else her physical body not to mention her sex is still that of a female. That argument makes no sense, if I see an attractive man walking down the street I'm going to find him attractive no matter what he identifies as simply because his appearance tells me he's of the opposite sex and my type(so far haven't seen a FTM who passes).