Gender Discussions #2

[Apple In My Pie]

Sorry but this is all fucking ridiculous.

I’ve had a friend online since the age of eleven; we have a mutual friend who while born female identifies as non binary. Because they’re an internet friend they’re not a friend I see often. They’re on a website similar to this but with more customisation in the profile area - name, age, picture of yourself etc. The main area where you chat is forum based and you have to click through to look at their profile. The problem? Being ‘non binary’ to them means switching between male and female presentation/pronouns staunchly each day. I got it mixed up once and referred to them as a dude, “aw dude, how are you?”
Apparently I should’ve looked at their profile and saw which pronouns and name they were going by that day (no photo, and the name thing doesn’t help as they have a ‘purposefully gender neutral name’ e.g. Pencil) because they find terms like ‘man’ and ‘dude’ offensive if they’re presenting as female.
I very nearly lost that other friend - who has ‘known‘ me since I was eleven - because then, in a private conversation talking about our non binary chum, I accidentally used she/her pronouns. Genuinely, the venom I had spat at me that day. I got ignored for weeks, labelled transphobic, had to apologise to my friend (not the NB person) or ‘he’d tell them what i did’, and now only talk to them briefly.
I’ve genuinely had it drummed into me to use they/them and happily will to people I know IRL if that’s what they want but I hate that there’s no leeway whatsoever - you make one mistake, you’re the devil incarnate. And I think if someone changes something big about themselves like their gender identity of COURSE people will find it hard to cope with at first?! How is it okay for the trans/NB person to question, tie themselves in knots, over their identity - but those around them can’t ever mess up? It’s not just here, you see it a lot on twitter, oh your transphobic parents didn’t refer to you using your pronouns, they’re EVIL. No!

 

[svdwoodsen]

I’m actually surprised that the trans community wants to ban drag queens? Shouldn’t they be supporting minority sexuality or whatever? They know what it’s like to be oppressed, why have they become the oppresser?
Though I find it funny that women complaining about Drag Queens were ridiculed and worst by the LGBT community for years but the minute that the trans community complains it gets banned very quickly.
As for Stonewall, a few members left back last year and created LGB Alliance. So it seems some of them are not happy with the charity’s view on Trans people. Whilst I was looking at articles about this spilt (which Stonewall denied) a lot of pro Stonewall people said that the first brick thrown was by a trans person of colour which can’t be corroborate but is preached like fact.

Notice how the more radical members of the trans community often pick on other groups who have traditionally been socially disadvantaged (women, lesbians, minorities, drag queens, etc.) but you rarely hear them complaining about cis, straight men (unless it's the fact that many of these men don't want to date a trans woman). One of the founders of LGB Alliance even mentioned that “young lesbians, in particular, are suffering; experiencing huge social pressure to transition to male if they do not conform to traditional gender stereotypes” so it seems to disproportionately affect women. They push for inclusivity for themselves but often are disrespecting and stomping over the rights of both straight and lesbian women to do it. Disgusting.

 

[HockyRorror]

Yes, I shared that earlier and said how I think these teens are going to end up regretting/abandoning this mentality as they get older. As I said before, as a young one (18-22 or so) I was definitely very liberal and at that age, I probably would have been very accepting of all this nonsense. I am 28 now and since being in the real adult world and dealing with shit as a woman, I have absolutely become more conservative-right... many women I know but won't admit it publicly. I worry about all the teens now transitioning... being a teen is hard and confusing enough, what if they regret it as they get older?

There’s already a woman (or they may still refer themselves as being a trans man, I’m not sure) suing the NHS for not protecting them properly and feel like they were pushed into having surgery. I also recently read a case of a teenage girl who thought she was a man and had her breasts removed at 15 years old (in America) and now bitterly regrets it.

I said before, in a decade or so there are going to be a LOT of lawsuits because of this, especially in the sue-happy US.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

What a headline so a person who is biologically female but calls themselves a man has given birth.

Honestly sick of the whole “man gives birth” spiel. There’s nothing special or unusual about a female with female reproductive parts carrying a child and giving birth, regardless of how they identify.

Any discussion about this post on the Carrie Hope Fletcher page has been deleted because it was derailing the thread! WTF!

It didn’t take camera crews and actors to write the books, which is what became famous in the first place. Smh at these people who seem to think only the films exist and nothing else. JKR is and always will be the creator of the Harry Potter universe and there’s plenty of people out there who will ensure she is always acknowledged for her work.

And again with the whole ‘denying existence’ thing. She didn’t deny anyone’s existence and I’m sick of hearing that phrase. Such a buzzword at this point. I doubt anyone knows what it actually means.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The non binary thing is incredibly narcissistic.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

So there’s a thread on Reddit In r/askwomen In which op asks which woman do you think is fucking it up for the rest of us in terms of feminism. Of course JKR got a mention (second top comment at the time). The comment thread would be hilarious if it weren’t so full of actual crap being spewed. Of course because of the nature of the thread, you’re not allowed to comment and argue back which gives them the perfect opportunity to spread misinformation about how JKR is responsible for the suicide of every trans person who ever lived Also willing to bet my life on at least half the people talking about JKR being a ‘terf’ on that thread aren’t even real women themselves.

The suicide thing really gets me. I can't remember if it was on this or the JK Rowling thread but someone told me that trans people suffer the highest rate of suicides and that with my TERFy views I was directly contributing to that. The NHS and The Samaritans are very clear that suicide is a complex process and no blame should be attributed, the only person who knows why is the person that took their own lives.

Sounds like those people on that Reddit thread are TWITs. Trans women ignoring truth

 

[maytoseptember]

The non binary thing is incredibly narcissistic.

And it’s OK for teens to be self-obsessed, it’s normal! I’d just prefer it if they became goths and emos... it’s a lot less harmful.

 

[maytoseptember]

Look at this guy trying to mansplain biological sex. Trying to suggest that literally no one can be 100% confident whether they’re male or female without a battery of tests. Fuck off.

Great response though. BTDT

 

[judsmum]

So now we are fucking non prostate owners!!! Apparently the readers of teen vogue are 12-17. The clitoris isn’t even on that diagram!
When JK said this is the most misogynistic time she’s lived through I thought that was a bit ott, now I 100% get it! This is a dreadful time for women

The worst part of it all, for me anyway, is that it isn’t coming from your everyday, working class male, The jack the lad....believe me I work, as a lone female among 47 men of differing construction trades and NONE of them are promoting this. So, who are the misogynistIc cretins behind this all? What is it that they want? Who is allowing the basic teaching of the anatomy to our young girls to be so misconstrued and why, oh why are so many women allowing it? Why are more of us not speaking up? I don’t understand and frankly it’s so very very worrying.

 

[Annoymus123456]

Look at Carrie fletcher starting a witch hunt on JK Rowling on a book she hasn’t even read. She annoys me

 

[Sheeeet]

Look at this guy trying to mansplain biological sex. Trying to suggest that literally no one can be 100% confident whether they’re male or female without a battery of tests. Fuck off.

Great response though. BTDT

Somehow I doubt he has trouble working out which category to click on porn websites. Egregious bullshit.

 

[Shestheman22]

A few years ago my niece went through a "tomboy" phase- she insisted on cutting her hair really short and wore only "boys" clothes. It turns out she just wanted to fit in with boys and thought that by dressing like them they'd notice her. Just a typical teen kind of thing. She's grown out of that now but I shudder to imagine some trans activists telling her she's not really a girl and was born into the wrong body

This is what is scary, 100% spot on. Why can’t kids just be kids, why do we have to push adult ideas into them at such a young age. In years to come I bet there will be many trans people that detransition and when they look back they were pressured into it. A child does not know who they are or what they want to be. I wanted to be a fairy when I was a kid.

 

[thegirlscout]

I generally do not have a problem with the trans community, I’m just so confused with the hill that some trans women (it always seems to be the trans women) are willing to die on? Like wanting to rename breast feeding to chest feeding? Or removing the term mother? There are bigger problems in their community and bigger threats to their community, why not put their time and effort into making positive changes instead?

 

[Mycuppatea]

I’ve always wondered this.

In the same way I've been baffled by why intersex is lumped in - it's essentially a medical condition or birth "defect"/difference, a developmental disorder/difference. Of course some intersex people are LGB or trans but they are competely different things. It feels to me that we (intersex people) were added to aid the trans lobby since they are endlessly co-opting our experience.

 

[cedarpeach]

I find it very disheartening to hear people say they would vote for Trump because of his stance on trans rights. Trump is no friend of women and has zero interest in women's rights or healthcare. Voting for him because of your feelings about gender ideology would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. He is a white supremacist and, evidence seems to show, a rapist. His abhorrent views aside, he is as thick as two short planks and a danger to all of us. Depressing that any person with a brain, feminist or otherwise, would even countenance the idea of voting for him.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The phrase "trans women are women" just goes through me. I hate it so much

 

[Zenchick101]

Yes, me being a liberal who cares about people is how I got here. I sought out trans people to hear their stories, but some of the things they were saying about what women were didn't sit right with me. So I kept listening, next to the feminists, and voila. I do think there is room for compromise here, so both groups can protect their interests.

I think most people on our side might be ok with that but the problem is them. When their side literally argues things like A rapist of women and children who still has his penis should still be allowed in a womens prison even though he has raped over 10 female inmates I dont think you can reason with people like that. They are not willing to admit any faults in their ideology

 

[bottie1000]

Also, I can't help but think right-wing men are our biggest ally in this. I've been talking to a male friend about this who says he's left but he definitely sounds more right-wing than most left people I know, and he completely agrees with all we've been saying. I watched that Change My Mind video and agreed with all he said there, although I don't agree with his pro-life, pro-guns stances and his belief that male privilege doesn't exist. Then I also started getting similar recommendations from Charlie Kirk, a Trump supporter who did a similar change my mind thing on gender.

I find myself questioning my political stance often because of this. I've always been left wing, and voted labour for as long as I could. But in these last few months the narrative the left seems to be taking is one that just doesn't align with my beliefs anymore. I feel very conflicted as I could never identify with the right either, I feel like I have no political home anymore.

 

[Falkor]

I'm very glad that a lot of rugby players have waded in on Twitter after Stonewall's recent tweet asking rugby clubs to stand with them against World Rugby's 'exclusionary' ruling.

No one is stopping trans people from playing rugby, they're just being asked to play on the team that matches their biological sex for safety reasons. But apparently not hurting someone's feelings is more important than preventing life-changing injuries.

 

[rosemarina]

On twitter #RIPJKRowling is trending due to the plot of the lastest book she's written. There's plenty of people on twitter defending her and the book she has written from the trans mob.

I haven’t seen nearly enough well-known people speaking up for her. I hope she is ok.