Gender Discussion #75

[Salted Caramel]

Speaking of passing, meet "Astrid" on Picture Slam on BBC this evening.

 

[petitspois]

Agree. And actually I think it's a problem on the far left more generally. I've thought this for a long time but never really put it into words, but it's something like: very leftwing people often seem to think that because they're progressive and 'on the right side of history', that means they're morally superior and sort of gives them carte blanche to act like shits to people in their actual lives? As long as they're attending the right protest marches and espousing the right causes on Twitter? Yeah something like that.

Yeah Japan is crazy, schoolgirl porn easily available in the 7/11s and duvets with silicone boobs and genitals on them sold openly in shops. But then, the culture is very conservative. But then you get something like poor Junko Furuta, where loads of people including the perp's MOTHER knew what was going on but didn't intervene cos somehow she deserved it.

I think it's instructive for women to remember just how much we are hated and oppressed in so many countries around the world. It's easy to forget cos britain is streets ahead of a good 80% of the rest of the world when it comes to women's rights and place in the culture. It's easy to get complacant. But we are not the norm.

We're a wonderful invention aren't we? we cook, clean, have holes to fuck, serve food and keep a house, rear children and only need a bit of food and some clothes (basically a sheet with holes in many countries). We can last 70 years but no point keeping us after about 50. Only downside is there is a tendency to develop a mind of our own if educated or given any sort of joy so men just need to keep an eye on that and everything is sorted!

 

[Scotch Mist]

 

[Metropolis]

In my view, men can't be feminists. Only women can. They can be feminist supporters. It made my skin crawl when loads of them wore that 'this is what a feminist looks like' T-shirt a few years back, especially since so many of them now consider a transvestite to be a woman.

Many years ago I used to live with a man (he was gay, so nothing romantic between us). He was highly intelligent and heavily involved in Marxist and Foucaultian theory. He also proclaimed himself to be a feminist. We were very close, but one day we had a disagreement and he held a knife up to me in anger. I don’t think he would’ve actually used it, but it did shock me that his first instinct was aggression. Men can spout the academics of feminism all they want, but they have zero understanding of what is is like to be a female. Incidentally, like many supposed Marxists, he did not live according to this ideology either.

 

[veronica71]

I saw this tweet yesterday and thought it probably sums up how a lot of us here feel

 

[MaineCoonMama]

View attachment 3288652

Honestly sometimes it genuinely frightens me that there are people this stupid out there. I'm amazed they have the intelligence to breathe... though I suppose that's instinctual.

Plane toilets are generally reasonably safe because a) noone uses them unless they have to. b) You'd be lucky to fit more than one person inside one and c) if some idiot molests a woman in a plane toilet... they'll get caught pretty fucking quickly - unless they can fly*.

*granted more likely than anyone, anywhere, magically changing biological sex.

This one, along with 'the toilet in your house is gender neutral' really annoy me. Of course it's gender neutral, it's a one-person space with a lock on it to others out until I've finished doing what I need to do. It's not an open space where anyone can just walk in.

 

[maytoseptember]

Why are they so obsessed with little girls? 🫤

I believe it’s called autopaedophilia. In other words, it’s closely related to autogynephilia and it’s about being turned on by the image of yourself as a young child, and role playing being a young child.

People try to claim that it’s innocent - fuck off is it.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

We need to start playing them at their own game. They refer to us as "anti-trans" so we need to start saying "anti-women" when speaking about them. Push the narrative the same way they do

 

[CarmenGhia]

I know,what you mean ; it's gotten to the stage now where staff think that any emoji or comment or message is going to be pored over , and used against them in a disciplinary action at some point in the future....
One the one hand- it's only a job.
On the other; you can quite understand people thinking ' if I end up on a warning, I'll have to start to look for a new job/ bugger about with wages starting at a new place etc" so feel pulled in both directions.
While cunts and the enabled trample over other staff & say/ do what they like.....

Drives me mad !

I work in the media. The subject area I report on actually has a large % of GC people in it, but there is a very loud minority with rainbow flags all over their profiles. They have disproprotionate influence outside of our area itself, and to be honest, they are really horrific bullies who enjoy making life difficult for those they consider unrighteous.

I made a decision to keep my GC views mostly to myself. I do not acknowledge the tiny number of trans people involved and I avoid writing about genderwoo directly. I refuse to use preferred pronouns and I don't write anything I don't believe in, but my resistance to this is passive; I just tend to duck the subject as much as I can. This probably does make me a coward, but the field I work in is so competitive and small, and my work is one of the few things that makes me feel like a real human being. The thought of my voice being taken from me completely is terrifying.

 

[moldwarp]

That poor girl.

Back when I was on Twitter/X I got into a bit of a spat with one of those TV docs (I don't even remember which one now) about clear language in medical settings; he was insistent that something like "people with a cervix need cervical smears" was sufficient to encourage women to have smear tests. No acknowledgement that women who don't have English as a first language or who are unfamiliar with anatomy might not be able to understand that it applied to them.

People like the guy you had a spat with represent the cosy, hyper privileged contingent that has led this madness to get this far. They live in such a bien pensant bubble, all their friends with degrees or postgrads, they genuinely don't understand how non-privileged people live.

There's a cultural barrier as well as a language one. I come from a culture (small island Greek & Roma) where gynaecological health is not discussed openly. To an extent it is in 'women's spaces' particularly aorund childbirth and postpartum but overall I would say that lots of gynae issues are pretty taboo even within families. I was 24 and had had my first child before I fully understood what and where my clitoris was. I'd previously tried to ask my grandmother about it and got a full dramatic face slap for my troubles lol I have immigrant friends, especially from rural Pakistani, South Indian and Albanian cultures, who have the same experiences.

Research has also convincingly demonstrated that immigrant women with a relatively low level of gynaecological education, poor English and poor educational attainment are at the highest risk for miscarriage, pre-eclampsia, traumatic births and injury to mother or child during childbirth, postpartum violence from the spouse, etc etc.

So basically the NHS is taking a cohort of women that they KNOW are already higher risk for a whole bunch of things and confusing/excluding them more.

All so Fweddie McConnell doesn't cwy

 

[veronica71]

It astounds me how we are so much happier talking about mental health nowadays but no one’s allowed to call this out for what it is

 

[moldwarp]

'Feeling validated' and 'being my true authentic self' can do one.

TBH I have no idea why "being one's true authentic self" is now somehow regarded as the ideal state for humans to strive towards. It seems to me to be the pinnacle of narcissim, and likely to lead to isolation and unhappiness.

My true authentic self is lazy af, selfish and greedy. I suspect that's true of most humans. Authentic me slobs on the sofa, hoards the best chocolates in the box, feeds my dogs from the plate I'm eating from and doesn't bother to wash my hands afterwards. My authentic self is a selfish slobby antisocial cow. And it's fine to indulge in that sometimes but surely the only way to become the best and happiest person you can be is to look outwards, to seek to be of value to those around you and to wider society? Rather than looking inwards and waiting for society to benefit you, instead thinking what you can do for the benefit of others?

I think so anyway. And I'm pretty sure we used to urge children to aim to contribute to society in the round rather than behave like selfish toddlers, obsessed with and constantly seeking validation for one's authentic self (whatever the fuck that is anyway, surely an adult human has many selves, I've got work me, mum me, sister me, friend me the list goes on).

Maybe that's why mental health has declined so much. We're all ruminating too much, thinking too much of our 'authentic selves' rather than looking upwards and outwards. It's like spending two weeks in your bedroom masturbating and then wondering why you feel still lonely, unfulfilled and the bedclothes stink.

 

[Vanelope]

I’m fuming about why women have to be assaulted and hurt in order to bring court cases to change such stupid circumstances as housing rapists in women’s prisons. Why can’t the reasoned argument be sufficient? Why do so many men (and women) demonstrably have zero concern for vulnerable women’s safety? Same as this BPT ruling - why must a woman be subjected to an assault by an office under the guise of a full body search to then bring a complaint to highlight this terrible guidance. Same as the Olympics ad infinitum. We tell them what will happen, they ignore it, they allow it to happen, they get sued - but a woman has been injured.

 

[petitspois]

I went on a disability awareness course years ago and the trainer was outraged that the disability discrimination act didn't apply to the armed forces (at the time, maybe it does now). Loads of people nodded in sympathy but one of the audience said you can't really have a partially sighted person in the battlefield and he was chucked off the course and got a written warning.

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I love the TIMs who have such a high opinion of their own looks getting shut down in public.

 

[soph30]

Why are they so obsessed with little girls? 🫤

 

[DoraMaar]

The BBC have published their "100 Women" list...surprisingly, I've only spotted one TW (so far). He's definitely earned his place on the list for er, doing a TED talk about how certain trees can change gender
View attachment 3300125

The reality

 

[moldwarp]

It attracts those with a low IQ and also mentally vulnerable and naive individuals who have experienced trauma. I have no doubt about that.

I think you can very vaguely categorise it like:

TIFs - vulnerable, mental illness, trauma
Young TIMs - gay, homophobic background, sex work
Older TIMs - AGPs, perverts, abusive to their wives
TRAs - posh liberals with luxury beliefs who may or may not actually believe TWAW but equally don’t want to give up their social status on the North London media luvvies dinner party circuit. Dahhhhling.

 

[Metropolis]

And now I JKR even more

Backstory:

Disciplinary ordeal continues for nurse who backed J.K. Rowling

Canadian nurse Amy Hamm first learnt she was under investigation three years ago this month for making “discriminatory and derogatory statements regarding transgender people, while identifying [her]self as a nurse or nurse educator”. The British Columbia College of Nurses and Midwives claimed...

unherd.com

 

[ChastityDingle]

I go to a Current Affairs class at U3A (an organisation that I heartily recommend for any of you who no longer work or work part time. There are a huge range of different courses and classes depending on where you live. It's a great way to meet new people and get out of the house where people are at an age where it is harder to meet people). Anyway, last week I brought up the 'What Is a Woman?' case, and someone said that it's a pity that the trans issue has become so political. I said that it really isn't a political issue even though most people in thrall to the trans ideology are left-leaning or so-called progressives. I said it is essentially a matter of science, specifically biology.

If, like me, you know/believe that sex is binary and immutable, then it follows as a consequence that trans women in particular, have no place in women's safe spaces and sports on the grounds of safety. privacy and dignity and fairness in relation to sport. I said that if, however you believe that a person can change sex on the strength of their feelings, then you have a different position to mine. I added that I think that the vast majority of people who do support trans rights, don't genuinely believe that men can become women and vice versa simply by virtue of their feelings, but for whatever reason, they believe that men's feelings in particular should override those of girls and women.

One man suggested that the whole issue was overblown and asked what was the problem with mixed public toilets as you can lock the cubicle door for privacy. I must confess, that I was on my best behaviour throughout and used a lot of 'with respect' type sentences (we all know what that means ). I said that all societies recognise the need for separate men and women's toilets for the safety of women; protecting them from voyeurism and for our general privacy and dignity as women's toilet needs are different to those of men, and our privacy and dignity needs require more than just a lock on the toilet cubicle itself.

I had one ally in a woman who brought up the Darlington nurses and a man who talked about the travesty at the Tavistock and the CASS report. With regard to the Darlington nurses, I said that this was a typical example of a man's feelings trumping women's rights and feelings. I said that 'Rose' now feels that he is a woman despite no visual changes and the fact that he is trying to get his partner pregnant. So 'Rose', as a woman, no longer wishes to change in the gaze of men in order to protect his dignity as a woman. However, the result of this is that the biological women now have their privacy and dignity ignored and are being forced to change in the gaze of a biological man.

The group was shocked to understand that a person can get a passport and then a driving licence in their chosen gender without a GRC. I had used the example of the man called Stephen who talked about gender neutral toilets, and said that he if came to the group next week and said that he was now Stephanie all he needed to do was to change his name by deed poll and then he could get two people to confirm that he was indeed Stephanie and bob's your uncle (or aunt perhaps). Someone was horrifed and asked, 'What, even with his beard?'. I said, yes, that's the consequence of saying that people can change sex by just saying so.

Another man talked about the whole spectrum of sex, hormones, in the world of all animals including humans, and suggested that we need to find a way to accommodate them.....My patience was wearing thin by now, so I said pretty curtly, that 'feeling like a woman' is a meaningless phrase. What does a woman feel like? It's a concept based wholly on stereotypes. I said, if all these people who he says have a huge spectrum of hormones or feelings die, their skeletons will in 100 years be quite clear as to whether or not they were male or female. There is no middle ground.

By the end of the discussion, between me and the other two members, I think we made a lot of people wake up and see just how pernicious this trans ideology is. Lads, I think you'all would have been proud of me defending our cause .

Well done @Dinate

This thread is brilliant as a place where we can discuss this bullshit and dangerous ideology. It helps me to articulate my own thoughts too. I mentioned this before, but at the time of the Olympics - when men were being giving gold medals for beating up women - I happened to be in my hairdressers. The topic came up as there was an actual woman versus woman fight that night that some of them were planning to watch.

There were five of us there, women aged from early forties to sixties. At first the others were trying to be very careful about I-Am-A-Man who had just been in the ring with Angela Carini. I said HE hit that woman in the face. HE did this, HE did that. And in seconds they were all doing the same.

I know we have said it many times, but I think a lot of people will not realise or accept the harm that's being done until it hits them personally. Their daughter or granddaughter being forced to share facilities, with fully intact boys or men in dresses. Or losing their place in a sports team that they have worked their socks off for, because John is now Jane and he can run faster and hit harder. Their elderly mother or other female relative having their intimate needs attended to in a hospital or care home by a strapping man who calls himself Belinda. And on and on it goes. I hope some of them will look back and think 'oh so me being all cool and 'inclusive' on this shit was easy when it was just words'. Too little too late.

I often wonder how things got soooo bad, and so fucking ridiculous and worse still, downright dangerous for women. I have always said it's a man's world, and I suppose this is just further proof of that.

I hope with all my heart that the tide is turning. This thread gives me glimmers of hope. And if I was still in the (long ago) era of having posters on my wall. It would be JKR. What a woman!