Gender Discussion #75

[Weebles Wobble]

I saw this tweet yesterday and thought it probably sums up how a lot of us here feel

Count me as one. I never gave "Trans" people much thought, probably because I rarely met one. But I also knew that they had to undergo a very thorough process, that took several years before they fully "transitioned". I didn't believe they actually changed into the opposite sex, but I did think there was a biological basis for their confusion, and would have been supportive.

Thanks to the TA I began to look into the topic, and discovered that the long process had been abandoned, and anyone could call themselves "trans". The numbers seemed to have exploded. I spent time trying to figure out what was happening, and felt sorry for the "True Trans" whom I regarded as victims too.

But then I realised that AGP's were using the Trans umbrella to gain access to women's spaces. I learnt about men being in women's prisons and shelters, and the abuse that often took place. That lesbians couldn't have any type of event without being forced to allow men in too.

And I began to realise that - for privacy, dignity and safety - women have to exclude all men from our spaces. Even the "True Trans".

And still the activists were shouting, and so I discovered a world of surgeries and hormone treatment. Even worse, this was being offered to young children and vulnerable (and often abused) very young adults. Much of this was not only irreversible but also carried significant health risks. Those who have detransitioned say that these risks weren't fully explained - some were even told that everything could be reversed if they changed their mind.

Finally I learnt that the science had changed, being "Trans" was no longer considered to have a biological basis but a mental health issue. I still feel sympathy for those "True Trans" people, but in the same way that I feel for anyone who has mental health problems. I know that most of them simply want to exist quietly and these are not the loud mouthed, foul mouthed activists. But I no longer believe they are "True Trans" as current science does not support the idea that "Trans" people exist. And therefore, I definitely do not want them in any women's spaces.

So thank you, Activists. You've shown me what is really happening and turned me into a card-carrying TERF.

I must add that I've also learnt so much from the posters in this thread and really appreciate being able to have a reasoned discussion.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Are we really at the trans = paedophile stage here? Unbelievable.

Um, I think the first person to put the words paedophile and trans in the same sentence was you.
Wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to wag your finger at the nasty mean wimmin though would you? Surprised you're back to be honest after you had your arse handed to you last time. Why not hang about and read some stuff (to steal a a phrase - educate yourself) You might learn something. Nope didn't think so.

 

[Shinythings]

Actually had a refreshing experience yesterday. In Tesco one of people on the tills was I think trans. Very ambiguous. Had stubble and a masculine face but had longer hair styled in a very feminine way and was wearing obvious makeup. I don't know how they identified. Maybe just a man with a more typically feminine style? Who knows.

Mum and child in front of us of about 10 I'd say. Child asks the worker a question about their Christmas jumper and says 'excuse me, sir or lady. Sorry I don't know which one?' in a way that children do. Mum looks mortified. Worker says to Mum 'don't worry, it's hard to tell isn't it for adults let alone children? Makeup and facial hair don't help!'. Seemed to have a good sense of humour and laughed it off and didn't get irate that someone found it hard to tell. And that's how it should be. I genuinely don't think most people misgender on purpose. We make snap decisions based on a couple of seconds of seeing what's in front of us.

Just thought I'd share a sensible real life response for once!

 

[Metropolis]

Aldi are on it. Great thread!

 

[Vanelope]

Spoiler: Long - feminism

I’m not sure about what wave of feminism we are in, but I personally think we should be reiterating porn is bad, it damages people to produce and consume. Men and women both. It also smooths the path to prostitution. Men have always watched strippers and dancers, but the proliferation of cam girls, internet porn and only fans is horrifying and making extreme behaviour (like choking) commonplace.

Sex work is not something we should be elevating and celebrating in society, it exploits and damages women and creates monsters out of the customers. The sex work is work crowd have no idea what it is to be trafficked and to be used like that for money. The mega brothels in Germany are dystopian hellscapes where actual humans are used and discarded like sex dolls. It is not sex, they are receptacles. I can’t articulate my abhorrence. For every Belle de Jour who says they choose their clients and make tens of thousands of pounds I believe there are a hundred thousand trafficked women being damaged and abused and killed to make other men money.

Consenting adults have their private time and what they do with it is their business. The internet has made it public and brought it into people’s homes and their children’s phones.

I don’t care if adult men want to dress like animals go to clubs and piss all over each other (I kind of wish I hadn’t heard of it) and I defend their right to have those spaces without women. I do object if you livestream it on sites accessible to minors; I care if you parade down the high street dressed for the club in front of families. So many of my objections come down to safeguarding for women and children. So I can’t understand people who don’t care about that.

Children in need is BBC so captured as well I think. Shockingly enough.

 

[Peachsquish]

Appalling

Time wasted on trans ideology has meant more pregnant women dying

archived 17 Dec 2024 07:18:46 UTC

archive.ph

 

[moldwarp]

God, the fact that puberty blockers were allowed to be prescribed quietly and off-label for years is just mind boggling, isn’t it?

Yes, it's fucking insane. Like, I'm a dog person, I've had dogs for the past 45 years of my life usually at least 2 at a time (stay with me here cos this IS relevant to the discussion at hand). It used to be with male dogs that you'd get them neutered pretty much as soon as their balls showed signs of dropping. BUT in more recent years, I'm gonna say the last 10 years maybe? Maybe less. Vets don't recommend you get them neutered until they're at least a year old and have passed fully through male puberty. Because evidence shows that not allowing the dog to complete puberty has long term catastrophic effects on their physical and also mental health (the latter measured in terms of behaviour).

TLDR: As a society we currently take better care of DOGS than we do of MENTALLY VULNERABLE CHILDREN.

I mean. Fuck me.

 

[Scotch Mist]

 

[Jen667]

Also surprised the BBC are exposing Pink News. I imagine that someone senior at the BBC had a family member who was treated badly there. I can't imagine they'd take it on otherwise. Glad it's happening, just a shame it didn't before Cohen bought himself a baby. Isn't it funny how all these men suddenly know what a woman is when they need to rent her womb?

 

[petitspois]

I’ve had three arguments this month with women that consider themselves to be staunch feminists yet are in thrall to trannies. I just despair. They absolutely cannot see that their argument falls apart the second it’s tested. To quote Madeleine Albright, ‘there’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help other women.’

 

[MoistPlinth]

I don’t do any of that stuff with my Scouts. Never in a million years. Even though our district go to the local pride parade I never publicise it to my troop.

When we do the part of the World Challenge badge that focuses on gender/disabilities we look at how girls can do and be anything they want, and boys the same.

So far I’ve only come across one trans kid (FtM) Despite being a “boy” she hung out totally with the girls and slept in the girls tent. I looked at her, and I looked at our female leaders, dressed the same, doing the same activities, and wondered did she really identify with the middle aged male balding leaders? Is that really where she saw herself in 30 years? I bet not, I bet she hadn’t even thought of that. One of the other leaders turned out to be GC and said he thought she was just a lesbian. Let’s hope it goes no further than her choosing a silly name (not even a proper boys name) and wearing baggy trousers.

I won’t lie to these kids, if I’m made to I’ll leave.

 

[Xales]

I believe it’s called autopaedophilia. In other words, it’s closely related to autogynephilia and it’s about being turned on by the image of yourself as a young child, and role playing being a young child.

People try to claim that it’s innocent - fuck off is it.

It's always little girls with pigtails sitting cross-legged in a tiny pink skirt with their panties on display.

It's never a little boy or girl in dungarees hunting for worms in the garden.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Why are they so obsessed with little girls? 🫤

They're so fucking delusional about girlhood
It's just one big sex fantasy to them.

I don't remember being dressed up to look cute as a child. My mum was always threatening to cut my hair short because it was difficult to comb. I wore trousers most of the time, dresses were uncomfortable and usually only for smarter occasions. I was also acutely aware from a young age that the opinions of women were not valued by society which was very male dominated then. All the women I saw on TV were either 'young hot sexy chicks' or 'middle aged battle axes'.

I grew up knowing that had I been born a boy more people would be interested in what I had to say and I would have had a more career and promotion opportunities.

But hey... it's all dressing up for these tossers!

 

[Funny_bunny]

The interviewer couldn't be more of a handmaiden if she tried. Trying to bait Nurse Bethany. Fucking disgrace, she should be praising Bethany and her colleagues to the skies instead of being a snarky cow.

The interviewer came across as stupid trying so hard to be such a pathetic handmaiden. If she honestly believes that someone born with XY chromosomes and is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant is a woman of any description, she’s an idiot. Hats off to Bethany for keeping her cool though. I’m afraid I’ve totally had it with the TWAW brigade. Ive never believed it but I’m sick to the back teeth of idiots telling us that some man identifies as a woman, so that’s what he is, and it’s hateful and bigoted to say otherwise. In the past, no one would have indulged such ridiculous fantasies or delusions. Humans cannot change sex and anyone trying to convince me otherwise can fuck off.

 

[DoraMaar]

 

[VC10]

I go to a Current Affairs class at U3A (an organisation that I heartily recommend for any of you who no longer work or work part time. There are a huge range of different courses and classes depending on where you live. It's a great way to meet new people and get out of the house where people are at an age where it is harder to meet people). Anyway, last week I brought up the 'What Is a Woman?' case, and someone said that it's a pity that the trans issue has become so political. I said that it really isn't a political issue even though most people in thrall to the trans ideology are left-leaning or so-called progressives. I said it is essentially a matter of science, specifically biology.

If, like me, you know/believe that sex is binary and immutable, then it follows as a consequence that trans women in particular, have no place in women's safe spaces and sports on the grounds of safety. privacy and dignity and fairness in relation to sport. I said that if, however you believe that a person can change sex on the strength of their feelings, then you have a different position to mine. I added that I think that the vast majority of people who do support trans rights, don't genuinely believe that men can become women and vice versa simply by virtue of their feelings, but for whatever reason, they believe that men's feelings in particular should override those of girls and women.

One man suggested that the whole issue was overblown and asked what was the problem with mixed public toilets as you can lock the cubicle door for privacy. I must confess, that I was on my best behaviour throughout and used a lot of 'with respect' type sentences (we all know what that means ). I said that all societies recognise the need for separate men and women's toilets for the safety of women; protecting them from voyeurism and for our general privacy and dignity as women's toilet needs are different to those of men, and our privacy and dignity needs require more than just a lock on the toilet cubicle itself.

I had one ally in a woman who brought up the Darlington nurses and a man who talked about the travesty at the Tavistock and the CASS report. With regard to the Darlington nurses, I said that this was a typical example of a man's feelings trumping women's rights and feelings. I said that 'Rose' now feels that he is a woman despite no visual changes and the fact that he is trying to get his partner pregnant. So 'Rose', as a woman, no longer wishes to change in the gaze of men in order to protect his dignity as a woman. However, the result of this is that the biological women now have their privacy and dignity ignored and are being forced to change in the gaze of a biological man.

The group was shocked to understand that a person can get a passport and then a driving licence in their chosen gender without a GRC. I had used the example of the man called Stephen who talked about gender neutral toilets, and said that he if came to the group next week and said that he was now Stephanie all he needed to do was to change his name by deed poll and then he could get two people to confirm that he was indeed Stephanie and bob's your uncle (or aunt perhaps). Someone was horrifed and asked, 'What, even with his beard?'. I said, yes, that's the consequence of saying that people can change sex by just saying so.

Another man talked about the whole spectrum of sex, hormones, in the world of all animals including humans, and suggested that we need to find a way to accommodate them.....My patience was wearing thin by now, so I said pretty curtly, that 'feeling like a woman' is a meaningless phrase. What does a woman feel like? It's a concept based wholly on stereotypes. I said, if all these people who he says have a huge spectrum of hormones or feelings die, their skeletons will in 100 years be quite clear as to whether or not they were male or female. There is no middle ground.

By the end of the discussion, between me and the other two members, I think we made a lot of people wake up and see just how pernicious this trans ideology is. Lads, I think you'all would have been proud of me defending our cause .

I think this is,half of it - people just don't think about it until it affects them , or their kids.

It is ludicrous to allow people to change their sex on officialdom. Sex is immutable fact, DNA, Chromosomes. Humans are Mammals . There are two Sexes -
XX & XY.

I'm fed up with all of this madness invading the tv, radio, the media, legislation, police etc

 

[restinpieces]

Used to be a leftist, but when all the liberal-minded people started to worship communism (while being really capitalistic consumers themselves) and peddling the idea that anyone can be a woman, i just snapped.

Being from a former soviet union country myself, it's ridiculous how little these people know of communism in actual practice, how poor and oppressed people actually are in such regimes; i can not help but laugh how fucking stupid and naive they are. And any disabilities/deviation from the norm were really looked down upon too, so how would their special identities fit in?

Of course it's usually the middle class liberals having these beliefs as well, they've never known true hardship and food insecurity. As well as they won't really ever have to be in situations where they have to share same-sex spaces with the opposite sex. I'm disgusted, really, with these luxury-belief-havers

Not saying capitalism is good either, but people can't see nuance in things nowadays
Black and white thinking, which i think is common in countries with only two parties to realistically choose from

 

[Skyline89]

Utter insanity

The idea that an 18 year old is mature enough for the surgery but isn't mature enough to maintain the heinous daily post-op requirement to keep an alien hole in their body open is baffling.
Everyone involved should be arrested for abuse.

 

[moldwarp]

The both look like drug-addled wrecks.

It's fascinating to me how people get heavily into TRA and over the following years, visibly start to deteriorate in health, physical and mental.

The latest casualty is pop star Kim Petras. Born Tim, his parents hawked him around the German media as th youngest trans kid every to be fully transitioned: PBs, hormones, surgery (at 17), the lot. Then he moved to LA and Dr Luke got him a pop career.

All seemed to be going well for the first few years but now, pushing 30, the horrific effects of these surgeries and hormones are starting to show themselves. Kim has begun to limp badly, from a visible problem with his hip: PBs prevent hip bones from growing and locking properly (which is why so many PB people have to use sticks and eventually wheelchairs). Kim struggled with his weight due to the oestrogen infusions, then solved it with Ozempic, and is now Ariana-style brand of scarily thin. Kim recently admitted that despite his sex positive music, he's never actually had sex himself. Kim allegedly has a severe drug problem. Kim's career has stalled. Kim now regularly cancels shows at the last minute, possibly (I suspect) due to his deteriorating hip bones which prevent him from dancing or walking normally onstage. Kim posts regularly about his mental health struggles.

Behold another rainbow miracle of trans kid joy, folks!!

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Like honestly, being called a Nazi for attending an event called "let women speak"?? How is the blatant misogyny not evident to EVERYONE