Gender Discussion #50

[harveydean]

Bit of a lurker here, and fully fledged TERF!

I went partying after Pride, and had so many interesting conversations with many gay men, ranging in ages from 18-50s (I’m a bit of a chatterbox and will talk to anyone!) The subject of trans cake up quite a few times (as did the discussion about they/them) and EVERY single one (and I must have talked to a good 15 people over the night/next day….yes I partied hard ) was on my side.

The whole LBQT+ scene is so divided. A lot of gay men stand alone, and within their community there are so many smaller circles. A lot don’t recognise any similarities with lesbians, let alone self IDing TW. They think it’s idiotic and predatory.

It was reassuring and so many spoke of the fear they feel for their sisters.

Although I have a lot of gay friends, it was amazing to have these real life conversations.

 

[Notworthy]

When there was the confusion over the art work yesterday, those of us that thought we had misinterpreted it as GC all kept quiet until 1 person stuck their head over the parapet.
Now obviously the issue wasn't really a big deal in my life so I just shrugged and got on with my Day thinking I was a bit of a moron.
That's pretty much how this whole movement has gained traction. People haven't challenged the narrative because at the time it gained traction people thought they were out of step with friends/media etc and it really didn't feel like a big issue., so what if a few men want to pretend to be Women.
And now here we all are.
The moral of this story is, open our mouths and speak up. Who cares if people think we are morons, bigots, fascists,etc

 

[Scotch Mist]

I found this on Facebook just now!

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Tag rugby has always had mixed sex teams. You used to get more points for a try scored by a woman because they were trying to encourage women to play. But if they're going to have female only sessions then they should be female only sessions.
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Tag rugby has always had mixed sex teams. You used to get more points for a try scored by a woman because they were trying to encourage women to play. But if they're going to have female only sessions then they should be female only sessions.

I think that this is fair enough if a woman is happy to join a mixed sex team - but many women may not want to. Some women, for personal reasons or religious reasons may not be able to. Muslim women, Orthodox jewish women, Rastafarian women etc are forbidden by their religion from sharing particular spaces, and certainly from being touched, by men who are not their husbands.

If a team is advertised as mixed-sex, that is absolutely fine; if it is advertised as a women's team, and then men are allowed to play, to the detriment and exclusion of women, then it isn't fine.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I know a woman who is autistic and identifies as “non-binary”, she recently gave a speech about it at some or other transactivist event and her explanation as to why many trans-identified people are autistic was because “gender is a set of rules that don’t make sense and autistic people can see through that.” She’s right, gender roles don’t make a lot of sense and if a woman doesn’t want to wear makeup or a man wants to be a stay at home parent that’s absolutely fine. It doesn’t mean we should be encouraging autistic people to have invasive medical interventions

 

[Notworthy]

Jesus, I've just spent the day at Brighton Racecourse for Ladies day. Atleast 50 TiMs almost all in their 50's and butt ugly Men. 1 (might be more but 1 defo) wearing a G string and clearly showing his cock when sitting down,
All were using the Ladies.
I went in the Ladies at the end and there were a bunch of handmaidens telling 1 how beautiful his eyes were and how gorgeous he looked.
Honestly I thought the tide was turning but I'm not sure now.

 

[Dinate]

More happening in the tennis world with a transwoman winning the National tennis championships in both singels and doubles:

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...nt-claims-sport-not-failed-male-athletes.html

I have a feeling that we're getting to a tipping point in the US with this with more of these unfair wins happening. I guess we need this to happen for the authorities to wake up to the damage to women's tennis that their current trans policy is allowing.

As Martina says 'women's tennis is not for failed male athletes'. She also asks, quite rightly, whether a transathlete would be allowed at the US Open with self-ID. She has said in the past that 'inclusion at the expense of exclusion is not inclusion'. Amen sister.

 

[MmmB777]

People trying to act like if you take issue with this:

You also have a problem with this:

Not true.

 

[Limetree]

Eddie Izzard gets talked about a lot on these threads, and often gets compared looks wise to women- Denise Welch is a favourite, and Kerry from this country a bit further up. And it’s done in a very har har, Eddie is trying to be attractive but actually looks like this woman! way.
I am not thread policing, by all means do it if you think it’s funny. I am just saying I don’t. It’s deeply misogynistic. “Eddie izzard trying to be a woman and the best he can manage is Denise welch”. It’s horrible. Denise Welch is an attractive and talented woman actually, not that it should matter. EI is a bloke and therefore looks nothing like a woman. But once again a man dressing up as a woman leads to an actual woman being slurred.

The discourse, the debate, the humour and the analysis here is top rate. Do we really need to make cheap horrible jokes about women’s looks?

 

[eggsalafrancais]

I didn’t think I could detest Himdia Willoughby anymore than I already do, but HE has sunk even lower in my estimation. Vile vile MAN. I genuinely will dance on HIS grave

He is also very intellectually challenged if he thinks it’s only older women who will challenge this nonsense. I am early 30s and GC, my sisters are early 20s and feel the same about all this. We will raise daughters and sons to protect women’s and children’s rights. Most people might be compliant now for an easy life because they don’t realise what is at stake for themselves, their mothers, their daughters. But every day it becomes clearer what we are giving up as this movement steamrolls ahead. People will never stop resisting it. And seeing as facts and common decency are on our side even if things get worse the scales will correct themselves because most people are decent and this is a movement of degeneracy.

 

[maytoseptember]

So Ne-Yo has said that this “apology” was written but his publicist and he doesn’t actually apologise for his GC views

Finally, someone with a backbone.

 

[ThisIsMyGuiltyPleasure]

On the subject of Chess, my opinion is that men pretending to be women shouldn't be allowed into the women's category... purely for the fact that they aren't women. Nothing else.

 

[OatMatchaLatte]

One of the exercise classes I used to go to was female-only (the area I lived in had a big Muslim population) and there were two women who wore the scarf who attended each week. I dread to think what's allowed in that class now.

The same gym had a women only gym room, too. I preferred that to the main gym. It smelled better, and there were no men grunting, hogging the machines, and sweating all over them without wiping them down afterwards.

I'm often the only woman in my current gym. Nobody has given me explicit reason to, but I do feel a little uncomfortable when it happens. Men can be entitled, intimidating, and gross. And I say this as a straight, late 30s woman. We MUST preserve female only spaces, not just for those whose religions / cultures require it, but for ALL of us. Men and penises DO NOT belong in women's toilets or changing rooms.

 

[Metropolis]

Just saw the appalling Mhairi Black article about older women and I wanted to humbly and sincerely apologise to older women on behalf of women in their twenties (I nominated myself). We're not all as pig ignorant as that twat, and I would hate for her bigotry to be thought representative of the rest of us.

See what coke does to the brain.

What Mhairi Black doesn’t realise is that in the blink of an eye, she will be the same age as the women she is criticising. Let’s see what she has to say about women in their forties and fifties (and beyond) then.

 

[Mousymouse]

What difficulties do they face though? That’s what I’d like to know. They keep saying this, even though they represent a minute portion of the population and people bend over backwards to accommodate them.
It’s infuriating.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

I'm not sure how old this is, it appeared on my feed today. The race was close, the male winner of the female cyclist race won by only 17 minutes. He had to stand on the podium alone.

I'm so glad that the women in the race had the courage to stand up to it - but it angers me when people say "Women have to say no to this stuff"., Women HAVE been saying no to this stuff for YEARS - we have been ignored, belittled, insulted, denigrated and told "tough. You have to accept it." Women have been penalised severely, and cancelled in sport and work for even voicing an opinion.

It is only now that the sheer volume of sports abuses, prison abuses, etc is becoming overwhelming that men are even starting to notice it - and because they have only just noticed it, they assume that when have just sat back and said nowt!

Nothing could be further from the truth!

But I think that most people don't realise how much courage it takes to make a stand against this abomination when your career, and often the funding for your education, depend upon you toeing the line.

We need more men to speak out - especially male athletes. We need crowds who are watching the races to remain silent as the man is awarded 1st place, and erupt in cheers for the women who are 2nd and 3rd. We need everybody witnessing this vile manipulation and abuse of the rules of the sporting bodies to make their anger known.

Stop attending races if there is a TW competing. Hit the sponsors in the wallet, where it hurts. When sports, which is high profile, really brings this to people's attention then abuses elsewhere can be raised, too. The Scottish rapist raised the appalling practice of men in women's prisons. GOOD!

It is fucking terrible, though, that women have to suffer - often physically in contact sports, prisons , domestic violence shelters, toilets etc for anyone to take notice.

(Typed in a rage - please excuse spelling, grammar and bad swears)

 

[Vanelope]

I think I’m old and old fashioned now. We can understand that not everyone is ‘ heteronormative’ god forbid and make sure not to assume and not to discriminate but I don’t need to know your sexual preference as a primary identifier (unless in a speculative dating capacity). In work situations, isn’t it bringing sex into the workplace when we usually are trying to get sexual harassment and comments out of that. Stonewall are doing all of this for money, blatantly obvious with their courses and their index, but they have far too much influence and they are encouraging Gen Z to regress any equality within workplaces by overtaking all other sorts of discrimination such as against accessible workplaces. Disabled people are far more discriminated against at work due to inaccessibility and lack of accommodations, and they are not getting any attention due to the rainbow mafia (which includes far more spicy straights than actual gay people nowadays).

 

[Avenged7Fold]

View attachment 2365963

I’d like to see proof of any incidents where trans women have been terrorised by biological women. It’s all made up in their little victim brains.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Where to begin with some of these ‘resources’?
View attachment 2359137

View attachment 2359131What could possibly go wrong?

View attachment 2359138

I have lived 70 years on this planet and had never heard of a "dental dam" (and how I wish my innocence had been maintained). Fellatio - yes. Cunnilingus - yes. I know all about them - but "dental dam"?

If I've managed all this time without it (and I have had my moments) I don't think children need t know. All of these things are just encouraging a precocious and prurient interest in sex. I think it's a form of sexual abuse TBH.

 

[Dinate]

Just some additional points on tennis: the current policy in tennis regarding transwomen is based on testosterone levels. So, at the moment, you could get a Lia Thomas situation.

Interestingly, tennis had a high profile transgender case in the 70s. An American transgender woman called Renee Richards, who had played professionally as a man, successfully sued the US Open to be allowed to play after she transitioned. Billie-Jean King actually supported her in her legal battle by testifying that she didn't have a physical advantage over women competitors! Richards ended up being a solid top 20 player even though she was in her 40s when she transitioned.

Later in life, Richards actually coached Martina Navratilova for a while. Crucially, Richards now admits that if she had transitioned and played against women when she was in her 20s, she would have wiped everyone off the court. Chris Evert played her when she was world number 1. She says that she struggled to beat Richards despite the fact that Richards was in her mid-late 40s and not in the best shape, whilst she was in her prime. That's why Evert, like Navratilova, does not support transwomen competing in women's sport.

It seems ridiculous to have to keep saying that trans athletes who have been through puberty have an irreversible advantage no matter how much they reduce their testosterone levels by because it's so obvious. But here we are.