Gender Discussion #50

[TheMiceInTheShed]

She's obviously unaware at the moment how vile and unforgiving the activists are. Like most people she probably imagines you can have a reasonable conversation with them and agree to disagree.

I'm sick of women apologising for their views to appease these wankers. At this rate she'll be cut from the show by activists within the Beeb.

I was once the subject of a TRA pile on on Twitter for a quite innocuous comment that I made (I had very "unreasonably" said that while I had no problems with people dressing how they liked etc, it wasn't possible to change sex)- and it's horrible! It knocks you physically sick - the violence and the rage and the abuse - it takes you aback that there is so much hatred in the world, and it is directed at YOU.

It was weeks before they drifted away to another victim, and I just kept off line. Like Amanda I tried to explain myself at first - but I was ignored, or my words were twisted or taken out of context, so in the end I left Twitter for a month or so. I am an ordinary person, not in the public eye, not in an industry which is notoriously woke, and retired, so I didn't have to worry about my job or anything like that, and it still reduced me to tears.

I never, ever imagined that here was sue loathing and violence in the ordinary world - but there is.

If the same happened to be now, I would just block and ignore, and leave for a few weeks as I did before. (I was new to twitter at the time and didn't know how to block, or report threats or anything like that). It is more difficult for people whose public profile and career are dependent upon having a big social media presence. And it must be terrifying for someone who is publicly recogniseable to receive death, torture and rape threats - it frightened me, for myself and my family. I don't blame anyone who stays silent in this situation, because the police aren't interested in protecting anyone if the person threatening (or even actually assaulting) them is trans.

It's a dreadful situation to be in. I hope she's ok, and I hope she's able to dance.

And normally I just vote for whose dancing I have enjoyed the most, but if she's there I will make an exception for her and give her all of my votes, on principle, for as long as she's in, because I know it won't be easy for her.
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Unfortunately the acting profession is totally captured. Look what happened to Lawrence Fox for speaking out. Nobody is allowed to dissent on this issue and she probably does fear that she won't be offered any more work.

Same with James Dreyfus.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

FFS this is so insulting.

It’s also inaccurate. I am biologically female; I would class myself as not of childbearing potential as I’m peri-menopausal and pretty sure I’m unlikely to be fertile, but it’s not unknown for women have mistaken later-life pregnancy symptoms/absence of menstruation for menopause.

What about women with English as a second language? Surely this is just as confusing as asking if they’re a ‘cervix haver’.

To borrow a well-known quote: “‘Patients of child-bearing potential.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I know I’m not saying anything new, but I hate, hate, HATE the tagging on of the TQ alphabet onto the LGB. The homophobic attack on the two men outside the pub in Clapham has been defined as a “culture war on the LGBTQ+ community” by the likes of Sadiq Khan. It was a vicious attack on two gay men and now the TQ+ have latched onto it as if it’s an attack on them and we have people like India retweeting it and assuming victim status. As long as the elongated alphabet remains attached to the LGB, the ideology remains shielded from scrutiny and criticism so it serves them very well.

India is blaming Ricky Gervaise and JKR. What he seems to have forgotten is this was an awful attack on two homosexuals. They weren’t trans, confused about their gender or dressed as women. Once again the trans have hijacked this as their own.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Vogue 'Powerhouse 25' women for this year - how hard was it to find 25 noteworthy women? They've included Emily Bridges

The Vogue 25: Meet The Powerhouse Women Who Made This Year’s Line-Up | British Vogue

Are you fucking kidding me?!? There's four fucking billion of us on the planet and they can't find 25?!? If they were one short I wouldn't have minded sitting in as a temporary measure. I mean I have no talents or anything but at least I actually fit the most important criteria. Twats.
Once again men make better women than women.
Bridges is a chancer, like so many of his ilk. He'll be wanking himself into a frenzy at his inclusion on that list.

I'm cross now.

 

[Sea]

The womb story is on the BBC now. I'm fine with this particular case as it involves 2 Sisters but as with surrogacy, anything else should not be allowed.

I don't agree with it, it's a major (traumatic) surgery and unnecessary.
It is easy for me to say that the recipient sister should accept she was born without a womb and has lived her live without one all her life.
I think just because we can doesn't mean we should

I appreciate it's clearly a trauma for her not to have had a physical womb and not to have children, but I just don't agree with the transplant.

 

[Dinate]

Vogue 'Powerhouse 25' women for this year - how hard was it to find 25 noteworthy women? They've included Emily Bridges

The Vogue 25: Meet The Powerhouse Women Who Made This Year’s Line-Up | British Vogue

Seriously? This is beyond insulting. The puff piece about Emily says that 'some claim' that transgender athletes have an unfair advantage. Some claim? They make it sound like people are just making arbitrary assertions based on nothing whatsoever instead of common sense and science.

And talking about sport, Nike refused to make a replica kit for the England goal keeper Mary Earps, yet this is the same company that used Dylan Mulvaney, who not only is transgender, but also doesn't actually play any sport, to advertise sport's bras.

There's not a cat's chance in hell that I will ever buy or wear any Nike products in the future.

 

[HockyRorror]

Haven't bothered with trans sub reddits, but my god the "detrans" one is eye opening! Lots of truly distraught young people coming to terms with self inflicted mutilation. The worst thing is that many "detrans" people are now stuck in limbo because the changes made are permanent, even if they are not surgical. Lots of sadness about voices, body hair, breasts and receding hairlines.

And the awful realisation that actually who in the population will be sexually attracted to them now. Young women with no breasts, deep voices and facial hair, and men with curvy hips, breast tissue and erectile dysfunction.

These people are angry, at themselves, the trans echo chamber and the medical establishment.

it is SO FUCKING SAD.

And frustrating, because the young women/men lamenting afterwards how they shouldn’t have been led down this path, but knowing full well had ANYONE in their lives questioned what they were doing and if it was the right choice, be dismissed as transphobia. I get that young people are being duped. I feel sorry for them. I feel angry against doctors and surgeons performing these surgeries. But my sympathy is rapidly thinning to the individuals involved in this and I know it probably shouldn’t, because this entire movement has affected a nation entirely even if not directly involved, but I am sick to death of hearing the argument “IM TRANS, NO DEBATE” turn into “WHY DIDN’T ANYBODY HELP ME?” People did want to help. You just didn’t want to listen, until it was too late.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

Graham Lineman has reported this, though, in his weekly "War on Women", which is very bad news (among other depressing items)

“Sport is for everyone. Except for Muslim women. They’re less important than a man with a fetish.”

 

[NotDumbNotBlonde]

Karma is a TERF - Brighton Pride weekend, pouring with rain, freezing cold, blowing a gale and Thameslink has cancelled all the trains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-66415209

 

[Scotch Mist]

Ugh look what I just found on Quora

Taking a look at some of the stuff this man has written and seeing photos is quite an eye opener A fetish made public.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

FFS Anneliese Dodds: Labour wants to tackle ‘indignities’ for trans people and protect women’s spaces (msn.com)
All smoke and mirrors.
How about focussing on the difficulties that are still facing Women, you know the Women that have a double x and make up 51% of the population.

What indignities ?
There’s nothing more undignified than a balding fat man in a miniskirt

 

[terfette]

Can you imagine if some burley 6ft 6in guy in his 30s said that police women looked like his lesbian grandmother - do you think 6 of them would have turned up to arrest him??? No, i think she would have been told being called names is part of job love, better grow a thick skin fast!!!

But a young lassie, yes she's an easy target for a power flex.

Would they FUCK. I’ve seen numerous men hurl a alsorts of homophobic abuse at female officers based on looks.

The video really upset me because I can relate on a personal level.I’ve mentioned my “transwoman” (agp) ex on here before. He used to love calling the police on me, particularly when he had done something abusive to me.

One time, I can’t remember what he’d done, it might be after he strangled me until I lost consciousness. I was sat outside his flat we lived in on the landing (it’s a metal staircase and landing up the back of the building). I was sat in the corner curled up with my head between my knees and three huge male officers came. I managed to stutter the words that I wanted a female officer. They refused. And I just couldn’t say anything else. I had my left arm looped round one of the bars, and they tried to move Me by pulling me by right arm, which they failed to do because they couldn’t really force my arm without breaking it. Then they tried to pull me by my hair with such force they ripped my hair extensions out along with my own hair from the roots you could see them on the hair still attached to the beads the extensions were sewn into. I just sat there and didn’t so much as wince. I have a condition called trichtotillomania, I’ve been ripping my hair out in fistfuls myself since I was a child. It doesn’t hurt anymore.

So then what one of them decided to do. Was grab my mouth and squeeze it to make me open my mouth. Now. I had had teeth removed and something in my bottom jaw shaved down days before this. So that was pretty effective. When I opened my mouth he put his fingers in my mouth and proceeded to pull me by my freshly operated on jaw, I let go of the railing, and he and his two massive colleagues pinned me to the metal floor by my head.

They didn’t even arrest me.

I did complain and was told there was no evidence of any wrong doing on their part.

I hate the police. I will never trust them, and although the men are worse, I’m not shocked by this female officer either, as since then I have also had a female officer drag me by my wrists after I had self harmed, despite me squealing and begging her to stop as she was making the cuts worse by pulling. There was absolutely no need for her to put hands on me - there was no where I could run off, her colleague was stood in the way of the only exit.

She knew I had self harmed as that was the reason she was there.

 

[Sweetcouchpotato]

The assigned at birth thing annoys me. I know there's an official confirmation when babies are born. But hasn't the assigned at birth thing just come along with trans?
It sounds like a decision has been made whether to call you M or F rather than it being organic.

No, trans people appropriated the "assigned at birth" from the intersex community where it is genuinely applicable.

For example, I'd have been assigned female in the womb if my mum had a scan and I was assigned female at birth since my body is outwardly female. But I have xy chromosomes since I have CAIS. Many people think my chromosomes make me a male but I was assigned female at birth. Some intersex people have ambiguous genitals at birth and unless they have informed and assertive parents will have a sex forcibly assigned through surgery based on a doctor's opinion as to which sex they can most easily resemble.

A normal baby boy who grows up into a twat who "identifies as" a woman wasn't assigned anything. It is organic for 99% of the population and the vast majority of intersex people also are happy with the sex they were assigned at birth unless they were surgically mutilated which tends to cause them to feel differently.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Two women sexually assaulted trans woman in North Carolina bathroom, police say

Amber Harrell and Jessica Fowler were charged with second-degree kidnapping and sexual battery for allegedly assaulting a transgender woman at a bar in Raleigh.

www.nbcnews.com

Do you really believe NO trans women have ever been assaulted by cis women? Just because you haven't personally witnessed it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

You are right - it doesn't mean it's not happening. Congratulations on finding a single possible incident* when three women a week in Britain alone are murdered by men, and countless others sexually assaulted, and men (who claim to be women) are frequently assaulting women in women's prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. You have found the exception that proves the rule. and you win a coconut.

*I say possible incident because they haven't been tried or convicted. This is just an accusation.

 

[maytoseptember]

Just some additional points on tennis: the current policy in tennis regarding transwomen is based on testosterone levels. So, at the moment, you could get a Lia Thomas situation.

Interestingly, tennis had a high profile transgender case in the 70s. An American transgender woman called Renee Richards, who had played professionally as a man, successfully sued the US Open to be allowed to play after she transitioned. Billie-Jean King actually supported her in her legal battle by testifying that she didn't have a physical advantage over women competitors! Richards ended up being a solid top 20 player even though she was in her 40s when she transitioned.

Later in life, Richards actually coached Martina Navratilova for a while. Crucially, Richards now admits that if she had transitioned and played against women when she was in her 20s, she would have wiped everyone off the court. Chris Evert played her when she was world number 1. She says that she struggled to beat Richards despite the fact that Richards was in her mid-late 40s and not in the best shape, whilst she was in her prime. That's why Evert, like Navratilova, does not support transwomen competing in women's sport.

It seems ridiculous to have to keep saying that trans athletes who have been through puberty have an irreversible advantage no matter how much they reduce their testosterone levels by because it's so obvious. But here we are.

On a related note, I’ve also noticed that Martina has really upped her TERFery on Twitter lately, she’s been great.

A British TERF taught her the word “bellend” the other week

 

[Dinate]

The Government is planning a clamp-down on gender neutral toilets. Kemi Badenoch wrote an excellent article in the Telegraph yesterday explaining the importance of having single sex toilets to ensure the privacy and dignity of women. I can't link the Telegraph article, but this Yahoo one covers most of what she said:

UK Government confirms plans to scrap gender neutral toilets for new buildings

New public spaces in England will be required to provide separate male and female or unisex facilities The post UK Government confirms plans to scrap gender neutral toilets for new buildings appeared ...

uk.news.yahoo.com

In the Telegraph article, she starts off by saying that she never thought she'd spend so much of her time on toilet policy! She also adds that her job seems to increasingly be about legislating for common sense and stopping people determined to do destructive things. Amen to that sister.

The Telegraph article really is good. She talks about how the debate about same sex spaces has become confused and how basic rights as the right to privacy in a same sex space is now framed as transphobic.

I'm really impressed with how she's tackling these issues head on. It's great to have her onside.

 

[Metropolis]

There’s disturbing…and then there’s fucking outrageous. He seems to have already deleted his Twitter account, but his website is still up where he claims to have got an advanced DBS check and has received funding from the National Lottery. His company (https://www.awesometistic.co.uk/more-about-me) is selling its services to schools.

Thread by @genderisharmful on Thread Reader App

@genderisharmful: Tyne & Wear, UK: A grown man who dresses like a baby girl, sucks a dummy & wears nappies, has been going into local, special schools to talk about being autistic. He also does 1:1...…

threadreaderapp.com

ETA: OMG, I’ve just checked his Insta and realised he’s the bloke I posted about when I went to the Autism Show in June - he was ‘helping’ a young person on a talk on autism and transgender. He was wearing a pink outfit and child’s hair accessories while parading around with the teddy.

 

[susan1375]

What infuriates me now I've read these threads and understand what is going on, is that as a parent to two SEN kids I'm constantly battling the system to make accommodations for my kids that aren't really a big deal and will actually help most kids and certainly not harm them but its a constant fight and we mustn't let kids seen to have special treatment. But if they'd come out as trans the whole world seems to have to make changes to anyone's detriment and woe betide anyone who questioned it.

I think its very much a case of the emperors new clothes - I didn't even look into this cos I was told it was bad people who didn't like the trans movement and was too scared to ask as I knew it caused pile ons and trouble. But as soon as you look into it you realise the emperor is bloody naked and the more people that come out and point that out the more likely it will stop.

This, I had a serious accident, when I went back to uni I needed special accommodations / chair etc which they wouldn’t provide due to cost. They were so quick to jump on the trans wagon, providing help, gender free toilets etc, makes me quite resentful.

 

[DoraMaar]

I'm not being obtuse. I'm just pointing out that it was not a crime regardless of who said it. For what it's worth I think that officer would have arrested a neurotypical person as well because she's the problem here and as soon as she heard the comment she was determined to make an arrest and prove a point. It was awful that this happened to an autistic person but in my opinion it didn't happen because she was autistic. It happened because that police officer has her own agenda and she's petty and vindictive and the police are in thrall to Stonewall et al.

From Twitter ...

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

I've always been led to believe that men with a lot of breast tissue or gynecomastia were at the highest risk for this, but it might not be true.

I was accused quite recently of hating Izzard for daring to wear lipstick in public. This annoyed me disproportionately because I loved Eddie in his funny, fabulous action transvestite days. I despair of how wilfully thick certain people are being about his timeline. For years, he said "they're not women's clothes, they're mine". Loads of GC people I know loved him for that, and his brilliant standup. Then there was a long period where he wanted to be taken seriously as an actor, grew a beard, did Bond villain parts and told everyone he was bored of the makeup and heels. His transactivist supporters appear to have forgotten that this happened and will accuse anyone who remembers it, or has basic YouTube search skills, of being bigoted and evil. It's denying documented facts.
The person who accused me claims that GC people have always hated Eddie and that is categorically not true either.

I was a HUGE EI fan back in the day and could quote pretty much every show verbatim I’d watched the dvds that many times. I always think ‘Slut Banwallah’ every time anyone mentions Englebert Humperdinck. His ‘These are not women’s clothes, they’re my clothes. I bought them’ was a genuine subversion of restrictive gender tropes.

When he ran all those marathons I was seriously impressed, and when some people questioned his motives and suggested that he was an attention-seeker I staunchly defended him.

Now, I cringe so hard.
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The assigned at birth thing annoys me. I know there's an official confirmation when babies are born. But hasn't the assigned at birth thing just come along with trans?
It sounds like a decision has been made whether to call you M or F rather than it being organic.

It’s ridiculous. Sex is observed at birth (and can often be identified before birth via a scan), and is determined at the point of conception.

Sex is not ‘assigned’. That makes no sense.