Gender Discussion #28

[VC10]

I had all my lovely long blonde hair cut off at 11. I was a proper tomboy. It's quite a normal phase to go through but parents shouldn't then be enabling their daughters to go down the whole non binary route, it's not necessary, most girls grow out of that stage once puberty is getting to the end. Just let your daughter be a tomboy, it's fine but I guess there is no kudos in that.


There's no value in that though. This is going to make me sound horrible but I think it's Channel 4 that have a programme announcer that I think is deaf. Because he is not seen there is no value in having a wheelchair user in the role because no one can see them so they chose someone that you would know has a disability by their voice. Obviously I don't have an issue with the guy that has the job but the whole reasoning behind it fucks me off.

No, I understand what you're getting at. Normally it shouldn't affect anyone, and if the person is capable and good at the job , then they should get it- but the whole way the media virtue-signal box-tick over EVERYTHING now , and put it all in front of the content or programme means I can't " see around" it to get at the programme content - it's all I ' see' in front of it - so I don't bother, for the same reasons - if I'm making sense?
None of it should be an issue if they are the right people for the jobs in hand- but it is made an issue because the media push it as an issue.

 

[soph30]

Lmao I have no issue with drag as a concept, but tbh drag queens are some of the most misogynistic people I’ve ever seen tbh. If you go to a drag show, so many of their jokes contain degrading references to women that just aren’t funny at all. Like some of the most vile things I’ve ever heard about women have come from the mouths of drag queens ngl

I don’t have an issue with drag as a concept in context! I have an issue with drag queens marching in Pride saying they’re repressed for the way they choose to look, whilst feminine-presenting women are murdered and harassed for looking that way

 

[bcfc999]

I absolutely have a problem with drag and have been told off for this by a gay guy I know sorry love I don't think men dressing up as caricatures of women is a legitimate "job" and certainly has nothing to do with pride as I understand it.

 

[Cassandra333]

Jesus christ, calm down. Read back on my posts, I agree the TRA stuff is a misogynistic cult.

I also happen to believe half the days on that calendar are either made up or no one has ever heard of them. That's not where you need to focus your anger.

ETA: the irony of saying "it doesn't affect you" in the same breath as "there's no homophobia anymore" and "the gays" should only have a day instead of a month.

Two gay men in Ireland were lured to their deaths and murder by decapitation LAST MONTH. Just for being gay. Maybe you didnt hear about it because "it doesnt affect you"? So I disagree there's no homophobia anymore.

Please PLEASE recognise the irony in your post at least.

Ok, there's just a chance that I was triggered. Blame the bipolar, I usually have it more under control .

I feel so strongly on this topic because I remember when girls did cookery and boys did woodwork. I remember how huge the fight was and I'm horrified that we have to fight it all over again. Pisses me off.

But I do apologise for snapping and yes, I recognise the irony in my post. I wasn't talking about individual acts of homophobia though. That is going on and we should all be very ashamed of it. I was talking about the wider movement of Pride and its acceptance by society. The vast majority of society do accept same sex attraction.

When people complain about Pride, it's not the LGB that they're complaining about. So that's what I meant about homophobia. That we have laws to protect people against it. It's not perfect but it's there.

 

[weeweegie]

I absolutely have a problem with drag and have been told off for this by a gay guy I know sorry love I don't think men dressing up as caricatures of women is a legitimate "job" and certainly has nothing to do with pride as I understand it.

Totally with you on this. Hilarious a man, gay or not, can tell a woman how she should feel about something. Happens all the time though

 

[soph30]

Totally with you on this. Hilarious a man, gay or not, can tell a woman how she should feel about something. Happens all the time though

Yeah.. I’m happy to be corrected on this and am hand on heart not homophobic but it’s basically gay men making fun of womens’ bodies because they disgust them- gay men are obviously attracted to straight up and down, not curves and breasts and wobbly bits. So that’s why drag queens are always making jokes about disgusting periods and breasts and things- it’s kind of misogynistic

 

[Nelly's mum]

I can remember as a young child being shocked when I realised that drag is supposed to be a representation of women. I thought of all the beautiful, kind women in my life and just felt kind of sad and angry that drag even existed and that it was supposed to be funny.
I found it deeply offensive and I still do. Drag is gross, ugly, woman hating, misogynistic crap.
Gay guys that don't understand why women find drag offensive need to give their heads a wobble

 

[kittenattack]

Some of the worst misogynistic filth I've heard has come from gay men

 

[Cassandra333]

I absolutely have a problem with drag and have been told off for this by a gay guy I know sorry love I don't think men dressing up as caricatures of women is a legitimate "job" and certainly has nothing to do with pride as I understand it.

I have major problems with drag queens teaching young kids how to twerk in the local library. I think that's perverse. No young child needs to know anything about sexuality and they certainly shouldn't be taught how to wiggle their bums in front of adults. I think this is normalising paedophilia and it has to stop. But I could possibly still be triggered or triggerish. Nope! I think this is definitely wrong.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

Yeh that was my take too but she closed the conversation down as she said that we were never going to agree so I didn't get to point that out

The ‘believers’ always run away when you bring in pesky concepts such as logic, don’t they? (Usually complaining that they feel ‘triggered’, ‘attacked’, ‘unsafe’, or “if I have to explain it to you, you’re clearly too stupid/bigoted to get it”).

I wonder why that is?

 

[Cassandra333]

The ‘believers’ always run away when you bring in pesky concepts such as logic, don’t they? (Usually complaining that they feel ‘triggered’, ‘attacked’, ‘unsafe’, or “if I have to explain it to you, you’re clearly too stupid/bigoted to get it”).

I wonder why that is?

Because it's a cult. You have to believe and never question. That's why the whole Trans Ideology is closer to religious belief than actual scientific theory.

 

[judgejohndeed]

In my opinion the ONLY reason drag is considered remotely acceptable is because it's gay men doing it so if you criticise it you're ~ homophobic. My sex is not a costume.

 

[Cassandra333]

Many years ago when I did my Masters degree, I was taught by a professor who was the worlds leading expert on the Sociology of Religion. Incredible man, hugely intelligent and down to earth. He was also a Presbyterian Minister.

He told us about going home on the train with his family after a day out. His young granddaughter said in a really loud voice 'When we get home, are you going to wear one of your pretty dresses Granddad?'

He said that cross dressing played a big role with some of the clergy.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

12 year old niece is now identifying as pansexual, slightly worried but thankfully I know my family knows she is just having the usual teen/tween questions over sexuality, she won't be encouraged to call herself they/them or similar. In this situation I think it's a good thing we have three gay or bi people in the family including an uncle who lived through the AIDS crisis, we want her to know it's ok if she is attracted to girls but that it doesn't mean she is not a girl

 

[Cassandra333]

12 year old niece is now identifying as pansexual, slightly worried but thankfully I know my family knows she is just having the usual teen/tween questions over sexuality, she won't be encouraged to call herself they/them or similar. In this situation I think it's a good thing we have three gay or bi people in the family including an uncle who lived through the AIDS crisis, we want her to know it's ok if she is attracted to girls but that it doesn't mean she is not a girl

You should get someone to sit and talk about social contagion with her. Not 'you're suffering from social contagion' but 'are you aware of social contagion?' sort of stuff. Get her to talk about it with her friends.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

You should get someone to sit and talk about social contagion with her. Not 'you're suffering from social contagion' but 'are you aware of social contagion?' sort of stuff. Get her to talk about it with her friends.

That would be a good idea, my sister (her stepmum) might be the best person or one of her young uncles and then encourage her to talk to friends ... yes, we will!

 

[soph30]

I can remember as a young child being shocked when I realised that drag is supposed to be a representation of women. I thought of all the beautiful, kind women in my life and just felt kind of sad and angry that drag even existed and that it was supposed to be funny.
I found it deeply offensive and I still do. Drag is gross, ugly, woman hating, misogynistic crap.
Gay guys that don't understand why women find drag offensive need to give their heads a wobble

This is an open question and I haven’t decided on my answer myself.. but what do we think of drag kings? I personally don’t think the other way around has the same overtones- I think drag kings don’t focus so much on misandry (the opposite of misogyny)

 

[kittenattack]

I've never heard of drag kings.

 

[Cassandra333]

This is an open question and I haven’t decided on my answer myself.. but what do we think of drag kings? I personally don’t think the other way around has the same overtones- I think drag kings don’t focus so much on misandry (the opposite of misogyny)

When do you ever see drag kings? You're seeing more and more drag queens everywhere but you don't see drag kings. Is it because they're women, so don't matter? Like no one is focusing on trans men because they're not a threat to men at all. Plus they're women, so they don't matter?

I've seen enough misogyny in my life not to wonder at this. Women are always devalued.

 

[soph30]

I mean they exist but yeah we don’t ever hear about them, women have enough to worry about without that nonsense