Previous thread: https://tattle.life/threads/gender-discussion-23.28426/
If anyone wants to recap the last few pages then please do. Lots going on!
If anyone wants to recap the last few pages then please do. Lots going on!
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Bringing this link across
Fail link but interesting article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ake-DID-doctors-allow-Glasgow-woman-asks.html
As its talking about a woman who chose to become a man in her early 20s, and then realised that she had made a mistake, and changed back again to being female.
It kind of sums up why some people think that becoming transgender needs a lot of careful consideration, before massive medical changes are made!
And a link to the current discussion about the eligibility of people who were born male, who haven't completely transitioned or lost their genitalia, competing in women's races.
We now have the classification nightmare of ''Women's competitive events,'' being people with or without a penis.
Whereas as no natal woman would ever be able to compete in a ''Mens race'' Mens events can only be for people with a penis.
Where does this leave events for Women who only have a cervix, if Womens events can contain both people with cervixes and penis ?
FeministRoar
@FeministRoar
Emily Bridges has released a statement and a photo. Not often people put a photo out with a statement. I wonder why they did that?
5:53 PM · Apr 1, 2022
NB if Emily Bridges wishes to identify as a woman and dress in female clothes, Good luck. Just think about how fair it is for a penis haver to be competing in a Womans event!!
Fail link but interesting article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ake-DID-doctors-allow-Glasgow-woman-asks.html
As its talking about a woman who chose to become a man in her early 20s, and then realised that she had made a mistake, and changed back again to being female.
It kind of sums up why some people think that becoming transgender needs a lot of careful consideration, before massive medical changes are made!
And a link to the current discussion about the eligibility of people who were born male, who haven't completely transitioned or lost their genitalia, competing in women's races.
We now have the classification nightmare of ''Women's competitive events,'' being people with or without a penis.
Whereas as no natal woman would ever be able to compete in a ''Mens race'' Mens events can only be for people with a penis.
Where does this leave events for Women who only have a cervix, if Womens events can contain both people with cervixes and penis ?
FeministRoar
@FeministRoar
Emily Bridges has released a statement and a photo. Not often people put a photo out with a statement. I wonder why they did that?
5:53 PM · Apr 1, 2022
NB if Emily Bridges wishes to identify as a woman and dress in female clothes, Good luck. Just think about how fair it is for a penis haver to be competing in a Womans event!!
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The inclusion of a photo might not have had quite the same impact if it bore any resemblance to reality.
Attachments
I recently wrote to the Labour Party asking what they were doing to protect Woman and our "Sex Based Rights". This is the response I got 2 weeks later:
Thank you for your email to the Labour Party in relation to women’s equality I’m very sorry for the delay in getting back to you
Your strong views, observations and arguments have been duly noted and shared with the relevant policy teams.
Labour is the party of equality, committed to achieving a world free from all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Whether campaigning on the streets or passing legislation in government, Labour is the only party to consistently stand with women, disabled people, people from ethnic minority backgrounds, and LGBT+ communities.
The advances of women in the UK and around the world have been fought and won by determined women working together, often in the face of resistance and even abuse.
Labour can be proud of our strong record on progressing the rights of women and their freedoms. Labour brought in the Equal Pay Act, the Sex Discrimination Act, the Equality Act, the Minimum Wage, and introduced Sure Start. Every progressive piece of equality legislation has been delivered by a Labour government.
It was a Labour government that enshrined the rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law, marking the birth of the Human Rights Act.
Covid-19 has further highlighted the inequalities and risks in our society. The pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on women, who are more likely to work in low-paid sectors, including hospitality and retail and who have taken on more caring responsibilities during the crisis
The Equal Pay Act was a historic achievement that showed the impact Labour can make in power. However, the Government has made matters worse by suspending Gender Pay Gap reporting and failing to publish proper Equality Impact Assessments. COVID-19 threatens to set us back years in the fight for equality, including pay equality.
The next Labour government will put tackling gender-based violence at the very top of our agenda, including by making misogyny a hate crime, toughening existing sentences for perpetrators of rape and stalking and creating new specific offences for street sexual harassment
The Party will bring forward a new deal for women in the workplace, including the right to flexible working and full employment rights from day one. We will review the failing system of Shared Parental Leave and strengthen laws to protect women from maternity discrimination
Labour is absolutely committed to and supports the updating of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) and upholding the Equality Act.
This is a nuanced and fraught debate, one which is not appropriate to handle through social media or the leaking of review recommendations. We will make sure these discussions are conducted on the basis of fact and respect.
Labour is determined to continue to listen and engage with women and LGBT+ communities, to ensure we put in place the appropriate policies that protect and respect the rights of everyone.
We must come out of this pandemic with the commitment to build a better future, includes strengthening legislation around equal pay and monitoring how this crisis is impacting upon women.
Our policy is made democratically, through discussion and consultation with members, the public, businesses, experts and civil society groups. You take part in the conversation online at www.policyforum.labour.org.uk. Join discussions with politicians and representatives from across the Labour Party and share your ideas with us, so that when the time comes – we can serve our country again in government.can
The Labour Party
Edited to show my response:
Thank you for your response. I will still find it hard to vote for a party whose Leader doesn't know that a Woman is an Adult Female. And that Women do not have penis's. The science cannot be changed. By all means assist trans people but not by eroding Women's rights and taking away our safe spaces.
Thank you for your email to the Labour Party in relation to women’s equality I’m very sorry for the delay in getting back to you
Your strong views, observations and arguments have been duly noted and shared with the relevant policy teams.
Labour is the party of equality, committed to achieving a world free from all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Whether campaigning on the streets or passing legislation in government, Labour is the only party to consistently stand with women, disabled people, people from ethnic minority backgrounds, and LGBT+ communities.
The advances of women in the UK and around the world have been fought and won by determined women working together, often in the face of resistance and even abuse.
Labour can be proud of our strong record on progressing the rights of women and their freedoms. Labour brought in the Equal Pay Act, the Sex Discrimination Act, the Equality Act, the Minimum Wage, and introduced Sure Start. Every progressive piece of equality legislation has been delivered by a Labour government.
It was a Labour government that enshrined the rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law, marking the birth of the Human Rights Act.
Covid-19 has further highlighted the inequalities and risks in our society. The pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on women, who are more likely to work in low-paid sectors, including hospitality and retail and who have taken on more caring responsibilities during the crisis
The Equal Pay Act was a historic achievement that showed the impact Labour can make in power. However, the Government has made matters worse by suspending Gender Pay Gap reporting and failing to publish proper Equality Impact Assessments. COVID-19 threatens to set us back years in the fight for equality, including pay equality.
The next Labour government will put tackling gender-based violence at the very top of our agenda, including by making misogyny a hate crime, toughening existing sentences for perpetrators of rape and stalking and creating new specific offences for street sexual harassment
The Party will bring forward a new deal for women in the workplace, including the right to flexible working and full employment rights from day one. We will review the failing system of Shared Parental Leave and strengthen laws to protect women from maternity discrimination
Labour is absolutely committed to and supports the updating of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) and upholding the Equality Act.
This is a nuanced and fraught debate, one which is not appropriate to handle through social media or the leaking of review recommendations. We will make sure these discussions are conducted on the basis of fact and respect.
Labour is determined to continue to listen and engage with women and LGBT+ communities, to ensure we put in place the appropriate policies that protect and respect the rights of everyone.
We must come out of this pandemic with the commitment to build a better future, includes strengthening legislation around equal pay and monitoring how this crisis is impacting upon women.
Our policy is made democratically, through discussion and consultation with members, the public, businesses, experts and civil society groups. You take part in the conversation online at www.policyforum.labour.org.uk. Join discussions with politicians and representatives from across the Labour Party and share your ideas with us, so that when the time comes – we can serve our country again in government.can
The Labour Party
Edited to show my response:
Thank you for your response. I will still find it hard to vote for a party whose Leader doesn't know that a Woman is an Adult Female. And that Women do not have penis's. The science cannot be changed. By all means assist trans people but not by eroding Women's rights and taking away our safe spaces.
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Interesting, @Our Cilla , I asked the same thing (not recently though) and the response back was all about trans women even though that wasn’t even my question!
It did take two weeks and I have sent them quite a few emails ( I amuse myself by sending emails to anybody who offends me ie Labour Party, British Cycling ( their inbox was full and not accepting any more emails) but I also send emails to people I love ie JKR ( lovely generic email thanking me for my support) Sharron Davies and Rosie Duffield as I think we need to be letting them know we are with them and support them. We have gotta fight for the right to be Women!!!!
“No one should have to choose between being who they are and participating in the sport they love”
Unless you’re a woman being asked to compete against a man. I’m sure they’ll be asking themselves which hill they want to die on ahead of every comp.
Unless you’re a woman being asked to compete against a man. I’m sure they’ll be asking themselves which hill they want to die on ahead of every comp.
I hate how Labour frequently seem to suggest that this debate is 'LGBT+' or 'women' - as though there aren't any lesbian or bisexual (gender critical) women.
I really want to vote Labour, but I can't vote for a party that believes lesbians can love dicks if they just try hard enough to do so. I don't care what their previous accomplishments are.
I really want to vote Labour, but I can't vote for a party that believes lesbians can love dicks if they just try hard enough to do so. I don't care what their previous accomplishments are.
It will be interesting in the future to read academic theories on how the TRA campaign affects politics and voting etc. A lot more people seem to be considering voting tory because they are being let down by every other party regarding TWAW rhetoric. This would then have the knock on effect of the tory policies that make life much harder for other minorities and working class people etc.
Was on a local Reddit sub earlier and there was a post from someone looking for advice/recommendations for top surgery on the NHS within the area - so voluntarily removing their breasts. They said they were non-binary and not 100% sure they wanted to do this, but "didn't want to go to their GP". Thankfully some of the comments kindly suggested that they do speak to their GP in the first instance or self-refer to the local gender identity clinic because it's a long process and you need support and guidance.
This person is evidently quite a vulnerable young woman but feels they need to jump in headfirst and start looking at breast removal without any counseling or support. I can't help but think this is down to the social contagion amongst girls, as has been discussed here before. It's so sad. This, along with the number of young women buying their own testosterone with zero medical guidance, is such a mess.
This person is evidently quite a vulnerable young woman but feels they need to jump in headfirst and start looking at breast removal without any counseling or support. I can't help but think this is down to the social contagion amongst girls, as has been discussed here before. It's so sad. This, along with the number of young women buying their own testosterone with zero medical guidance, is such a mess.
I was looking at the instagram page of that awful 'yeet those teets' surgeon - just scrolling through it is harrowing.
Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher) • Instagram photos and videos
38K Followers, 2,566 Following, 2,484 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher)
www.instagram.com
She'll have made an absolute fortune doing this, and any patient who realise decades down the line that they made a mistake? Too bad, so sad I guess
I honestly think that surgeon is a psychopath. There is something terrifying about her eyes.
Teens are too naive to understand that no responsible surgeon advertises by doing TikTok dances and memes.
She's a butcher. This is going to be a scandal in a few years' time. There'll be documentaries about how she was allowed to get away with it.I was looking at the instagram page of that awful 'yeet those teets' surgeon - just scrolling through it is harrowing.
Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher) • Instagram photos and videos
38K Followers, 2,566 Following, 2,484 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher)
She'll have made an absolute fortune doing this, and any patient who realise decades down the line that they made a mistake? Too bad, so sad I guess
I was thinking before about how I feel as an openly "gender critical" feminist (or as I like to call myself, a feminist). Women experience a lot of being dismissed and told to shut up and having our experiences diminished and being told what we are and what we think - men have been the arbiter of womanhood since time immemorial. But I have never felt so "invisible" and felt such outright misogyny as I do now.
I'm a 36 year old, compassionate, left wing, working class woman who has spent her entire life actively in favour of LGBT rights, constantly being told I'm a privileged bigot. I think gender non-conformity is normal, and these nutters think it needs to be treated with hormones and surgery (cases of severe dysphoria notwithstanding), yet somehow I'm the regressive one?
One thing I will say is that although opinionated I'm very easy going and generally pick my battles wisely, because life is too short, but I will bleeping die on this hill. I've never been more certain of anything that we'll eventually be vindicated. AGP men and their deluded handmaidens are selling women and kids (gay, trans and otherwise) down the river for validation of their own little egos and its horrifying watching it unfold.
Ugh. I know I'm ranting pointlessly at the converted here but sometimes you just need somewhere to shout about the madness
.Hear hear!She's a butcher. This is going to be a scandal in a few years' time. There'll be documentaries about how she was allowed to get away with it.
I was thinking before about how I feel as an openly "gender critical" feminist (or as I like to call myself, a feminist). Women experience a lot of being dismissed and told to shut up and having our experiences diminished and being told what we are and what we think - men have been the arbiter of womanhood since time immemorial. But I have never felt so "invisible" and felt such outright misogyny as I do now.
I'm a 36 year old, compassionate, left wing, working class woman who has spent her entire life actively in favour of LGBT rights, constantly being told I'm a privileged bigot. I think gender non-conformity is normal, and these nutters think it needs to be treated with hormones and surgery (cases of severe dysphoria notwithstanding), yet somehow I'm the regressive one?
One thing I will say is that although opinionated I'm very easy going and generally pick my battles wisely, because life is too short, but I will bleeping die on this hill. I've never been more certain of anything that we'll eventually be vindicated. AGP men and their deluded handmaidens are selling women and kids (gay, trans and otherwise) down the river for validation of their own little egos and its horrifying watching it unfold.
Ugh. I know I'm ranting pointlessly at the converted here but sometimes you just need somewhere to shout about the madness
I’m 43 - I have daughters. It’s a no brainer I will die on this hill also.She's a butcher. This is going to be a scandal in a few years' time. There'll be documentaries about how she was allowed to get away with it.
I was thinking before about how I feel as an openly "gender critical" feminist (or as I like to call myself, a feminist). Women experience a lot of being dismissed and told to shut up and having our experiences diminished and being told what we are and what we think - men have been the arbiter of womanhood since time immemorial. But I have never felt so "invisible" and felt such outright misogyny as I do now.
I'm a 36 year old, compassionate, left wing, working class woman who has spent her entire life actively in favour of LGBT rights, constantly being told I'm a privileged bigot. I think gender non-conformity is normal, and these nutters think it needs to be treated with hormones and surgery (cases of severe dysphoria notwithstanding), yet somehow I'm the regressive one?
One thing I will say is that although opinionated I'm very easy going and generally pick my battles wisely, because life is too short, but I will bleeping die on this hill. I've never been more certain of anything that we'll eventually be vindicated. AGP men and their deluded handmaidens are selling women and kids (gay, trans and otherwise) down the river for validation of their own little egos and its horrifying watching it unfold.
Ugh. I know I'm ranting pointlessly at the converted here but sometimes you just need somewhere to shout about the madness
On the plus side, I peaked a friend who is director of HR for a multinational company. A very successful gay man, who told me he now can't unsee the number of "women" in senior positions who are actually TiMs.
"We tell them to employ more women and they give the job to a man in a wig!"
Success
"We tell them to employ more women and they give the job to a man in a wig!"
Success
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Wow well done @nothanksbabes that’s fantastic!
That's enough Twitter logic for my brain today.
No one is making anyone choose anything. THEY are forcing society to accept them. I was once empathetic to transsexuals (and still am to a degree) but as a woman and a mother of a daughter, I will NOT freely allow men to trample over women, not our lives, not out spaces, not our sports, not our jobs, not nothing, not for any reason.
Let's look further down the line and say the medical gods find some brain something or other, that confirms trans is actually a real condition. Nothing changes. They remain men, and male for life. These men need to accept their own reality. It is not for me to pander to their ego, it is a them issue.
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