Gender Discussion #24

[nothanksbabes]

I was looking at the instagram page of that awful 'yeet those teets' surgeon - just scrolling through it is harrowing.

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She'll have made an absolute fortune doing this, and any patient who realise decades down the line that they made a mistake? Too bad, so sad I guess

She's a butcher. This is going to be a scandal in a few years' time. There'll be documentaries about how she was allowed to get away with it.

I was thinking before about how I feel as an openly "gender critical" feminist (or as I like to call myself, a feminist). Women experience a lot of being dismissed and told to shut up and having our experiences diminished and being told what we are and what we think - men have been the arbiter of womanhood since time immemorial. But I have never felt so "invisible" and felt such outright misogyny as I do now.

I'm a 36 year old, compassionate, left wing, working class woman who has spent her entire life actively in favour of LGBT rights, constantly being told I'm a privileged bigot. I think gender non-conformity is normal, and these nutters think it needs to be treated with hormones and surgery (cases of severe dysphoria notwithstanding), yet somehow I'm the regressive one?

One thing I will say is that although opinionated I'm very easy going and generally pick my battles wisely, because life is too short, but I will fucking die on this hill. I've never been more certain of anything that we'll eventually be vindicated. AGP men and their deluded handmaidens are selling women and kids (gay, trans and otherwise) down the river for validation of their own little egos and its horrifying watching it unfold.

Ugh. I know I'm ranting pointlessly at the converted here but sometimes you just need somewhere to shout about the madness .

 

[usefullyuseless]

If you're a transman and decide to become pregnant and have a baby surely you realise that part of that is going to be attending maternity appointments and having medical professionals refer to your female anatomy by the correct names?

If you are so mentally fragile that a midwife referring to your vagina or breasts is going to be tantamount to literal violence then maybe you shouldn't be bringing a child into your life?

 

[DottyP]

It starts with pronouns and 'be kind' and ends with a woman being raped in a hospital bed and the hospital denying it for a year. Fuck pronouns, I will never use them, not even to be polite.

 

[grimaldi]

What is wrong with saying only women menstruate? There is nothing inaccurate about that statement. Not all women menstruate but only women do regardless of what they identify as.

 

[wafflesnwings]

Wow, talk about a few condoms short of an orgy

1)Therapy is not abuse, you cannot complain about the lack of mental health resources for trans people on one breath then complain in the next that therapy is available. It’s not torture, it’s just making sure that making a lifelong irreversible decision is the right thing to do. It’s far more complicated than “I like barbies so I must be a girl”

2) Transgender women are not women. They are men who either wish to be or believe they are women. Being a woman isn’t a belief, it’s a state of being. I’m 5’2, could put some heels on but that wouldn’t change the fact I’m still 5’2

The CHEEK of referring to erasure is just we’re the ones being erased! Us cervix havers! Chest feeders! Menstruators! And also no not every single man is stronger than every single woman but you can guarantee that if every man and every woman trained for an event the man would win hands down. Saying otherwise is BEYOND naive andjust plain stupid.

3) As transgender women are not women, no they shouldn’t have the rights to women only spaces. If they want a safe space from men, create some sort of gender neutral space.

Honestly, what an idiot?!?!?!

I am very late to this thread and I apologise in advance for repeating things which have already been said. I've been someone who's stayed silent on this issue for a long time because I see how the mob-cancel-culture mentality just takes over and it honestly frightens me. I'm not a confrontational person because it makes me feel extremely anxious (even arguments on the trains etc. shake me up very badly). The cancel culture is a behaviour is that is being used (recklessly) because to me it shows that there is a general downward spiral in having respect for each other, being able to have discussions with nuance and believing that we must humiliate/belittle/annihilate those whom we don't agree with (it feels like people can't debate or disagree with respect anymore or even show respect for views different to theirs).

I don't like how women are being silenced, spoken over and being told what a woman is, what constitutes womanhood and how collective women's experiences are being invalidated. I cannot believe in this day and age, women are being silenced, being told what a woman is by a group that have not grown up as women but have benefitted from a world that's been built (and arguably destroyed) by men for men.
I was listening to Woman's Hour last week and there was a transgender woman talking about womanhood/what it is etc. and said that women could have penises. How on earth does that make sense? I think it was the first time I was angrily talking to the radio (I know...I know...not a good sign) because it felt as though I were being patronised, having womanhood be mansplained to me and even though the guest was a transgender woman, their mentality, thought process and outlook were that of a man's. Transgender women have not grown up with patriarchy, being sexualised at a young age, having communal or familial honour being placed on you because you are a girl, going through periods, miscarriage, menopause and everything women experience. The guest was projecting pure patriarchy. In addition to this, I've noticed that their idea of womanhood (things like mannerisms, way of dressing/expressing themselves, are extremely sexualised, fantasy-like and pornographic - I don't know if that makes sense or not), which troubles me further because it's an idea of woman formed by men and for the male gaze (I realise I'm not being articulate with this and I'm sorry for this; I don't know why I am having trouble expressing this).

I agree with so much of what is being shared and expressed on this thread - I am glad there are more women who feel the outrage, shock and anger because for a long time, I thought that I was going mad or becoming some sort of idiot

 

[CookieZippy]

"Horrified to have stumbled upon transphobes"

The bar for what constitutes transphobia these days is so low that it is descending into parody.

 

[nothanksbabes]

On the plus side, I peaked a friend who is director of HR for a multinational company. A very successful gay man, who told me he now can't unsee the number of "women" in senior positions who are actually TiMs.

"We tell them to employ more women and they give the job to a man in a wig!"

Success

 

[judgejohndeed]

I’m honestly so beyond bored with hearing ‘transwomen are women’, it literally reminds me of a small child having a tantrum screaming and stamping their feet. It doesn’t matter whether I say an apple is an orange times a thousand times, at the end of the day its still an apple. Boring.

 

[nothanksbabes]

"TrAnSpHoBeS"

The fact these people willfully ignore male sex offenders being referred to as "she" in court and the media and the fact that 50% of the trans identified men in UK prisons are convicted sex offenders is astounding. The maddest thing of all is this isn't only damaging to women, but to the every day, normal, trans person who just wants to live their life.

The "be kind" brigade incapable of common sense and critical thinking will sleepwalk us all into a shitshow and then quietly blame someone else for it when they realised they fucked up.

 

[holliebollie]

I am itching to remind a certain thread that having GC beliefs is protected under the Equality Act- it’s not the equivalent of a Nazi.

I don’t believe in NB, it’s just people who feel they don’t adhere to strict gender stereotypes, and we want more of, just don’t label it!

I don’t believe in cisgender , I believe there are male humans (men) and female humans (women) and occasionally a 0.001% (a guess!) of humans who have some kind of genetic mutation and don’t fit the very narrow XX/XY binary. We are not AFAB, our sex is determined at conception by the very male sperm cell.

I don’t believe a man saying he’s a woman means he is a woman and I don’t want that group in my private spaces, or where I will receive healthcare/therapy etc.

None of that is transphobic and I’m actually fed up of feeling like I’m some sort of Nazi white winger (!!) for living my life with those beliefs.

 

[klarakluckbag]

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
Lesbians refusing to suck dick is 'performing elements of the patriarchy'

How many times do women have to say this; lesbians like to have sex with women. Not men. Not men in dresses. Not men with penises. Not men in any way, shape or form. That is THEIR choice to make. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's.
All of us are entitled to decide who we find sexually attractive. Some of us like men, some like women, some like both. Unfortunately, very, very few like TiM's. That's a bit sad, but what can we do? You can elbow your way into our ad campaigns, you can insult us and scream at us, you can insist that we're terfs, but it doesn't change the fact that most of us really, really don't want to have sex with you. We're just not attracted to you, we can't help it

 

[Scotch Mist]

Great point. We can’t ignore the self-hating TIFs in this movement because there’s a lot of them. They’re quieter and less violent but still there. They are the ones getting pregnant and demanding we change language for them. The ones giving interviews saying “when I was pregnant I didn’t feel feminine, I felt brave and strong” Read Freddy McConnell’s birth story on Insta - shouting at doctors and midwives for saying “she” from across the room and the handmaiden student saying “I’m so sorry you had to hear that”. They are the ones cutting their breasts off and grooming others to do the same over Tiktok. They don’t make rape and death threats but you could argue they’re more sinister because they aren’t just full of hot air.

I'm at a loss to understand women who want to identify as men but then want to get pregnant. Gestating a baby is the ultimate in being female. Women have breasts to suckle babies. I know not all women can (or want to) breastfeed but if you want to live as a man then why would you want to get pregnant at all? It’s almost like when people cherry pick what they want to believe from a faith.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

This has given me a laugh tonight https://thecritic.co.uk/a-heartbreaking-work-of-staggering-narcissism/ - Julie Bindel on Grace Lavery

Thank you for that link.

‘In their new book, Lavery describes their penis as feeling “as though I were laying my own miscarried foetus across my hand”.’

Having been through the searing physical and emotional pain of a miscarriage, I cannot begin to explain how revoltingly offensive that is.

 

[Peachsquish]

Twitter again

 

[GladiatorReady]

"I did everything right."


Utterly heartbreaking. And it'll happen more and more in the coming decade as these children grow older.

 

[Platformcrocs]

Studies and research are all very well and good but I'll never accept a male bodied person in a woman's space. Nor will I accept that middle aged men transitioning is anything more than a fetish or AGP. Or grown adults celebrating that their kids have been given puberty blockers. That's based on my own experience and what I've seen. Someone can "identify" as whatever the hell they like, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna validate you

 

[HoGi]

I just went to do a survey and the first question was this abomination.

I closed it and didn't continue the survey

 

[klarakluckbag]

TiM's hate lesbians because they won't have sex with them. That's because lesbians aren't sexually attracted to men, even men who wear lipstick and dresses.

The TiM's are raging because JKR stands with all women, including lesbians. JKR, along with the rest of us terfs, understands that it isn't clothing, appearance, or sexual preference that matters. It's the fact that we're women. It's women who are being cancelled by shouty men, trying to silence us, demean us, and frighten us into submission. As per fucking usual

 

[GladiatorReady]

Maybe you don't care Emily but you are highly unlikely to need a space in a women's refuge and are highly unlikely to go to prison.

This I'm alright Jack-ness is doing my head in.

 

[Clover123]

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
Lesbians refusing to suck dick is 'performing elements of the patriarchy'

It's just so homophobic and offensive to say lesbians have a "pussy fetish." What a stupid take. It really is straight men telling lesbians they just haven't had good enough sex with a man yet repackaged into trans rhetoric.