Gender Discussion #104

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It’s always been the end game

I used to think that was far fetched and catastrophising things but as time has gone on, and as with many other things I dismissed similarly while “educating myself”, I see it clearly now. It’s chilling and sickening in equal measures.
 
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I think cults are organised abuse. And like abusive individuals, cults know how to identify, target, and ensnare people who are vulnerable and seeking belonging. Examples of this are as wide ranging as Scientology, trans, Jehovah Witness, Charles Manson's group, Aum Shinriko, the Dami Mission.

There are also groups that can become cult like in their behaviour if safeguards are disregarded. I would argue that extreme Rightism, extreme Leftism, climate apocalypse and even some 12 Step Groups can fall into this.

Radical Islam is difficult to class purely as a cult because unlike Christianity, Islam has not undergone 2 Reformations, and has not accepted a full separation of church and state in many countries. Therefore on a strict Koranic interpretation, such activites as martyrdom, tricking and destroying unbelievers who refuse to convert, taking up to four wives, women being worth less than men, taking female kafir slaves (the grooming gangs) are all correct beliefs and activities. HOWEVER. Against that we can look at secular Islamic countries such as Indonesia, Albania, Kosovo, the 'Five Stans' etc where radical Koranic interpretation has been successfully separated from politics. This is why I say Islam isn't the problem. Only racists would seriously claim that. Interpretation is the problem. The radical interpretation of ISS, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, Hamas (all funded by Iran btw) are cult like and are a problem.

Shamima Begum was a vulnerable person who fell under the sway of a cult. But I don't believe she should be granted sanctuary or absolution just because she's vulnerable. People can be both vulnerable and dangerous. I think Shamima's one of those. Also Axel Rudukabana. Or Sally Anne Jones aka Umm Hussain al-Britani. And because they're so dangerous, they shouldn't be in our society.

A number of Muslim or former Muslim activists such as Ayan Hirsi Ali have theorised that second gen immigrants ie British born Muslims are more vulnerable to becoming extremists than their first gen parents who are more secularised and integrated. And these parents are often baffled and heartbroken at their children's behaviour. I think this is an avenue which Government should explore more thoroughly.
I agree with so much you write.
What is interesting though here about the difference between secular and non secular Islamic countries, are that places like Albania, Kosovo and the Five Stans are all ex communist states, and communism as an ideology doesn't tend to accept religions as part of their political systems! But having said this, I have also met and worked with plenty of non radical Islamists as well, so I dont think all of Islam is necessarily extreme!

I also think its interesting to see how extremism and cult behaviour, thinking of now, but also of Europe in the 1930s, eg Spain, Germany and Italy, and of course the USSR, seems to get worse at times of political and economic stress!!

But yes of course the government, should be exploring extremism from all directions a lot lot better.

Its easy to have systems like PREVENT to safeguard children, but as was made obvious by Axel, whatever his name was, this system, even if children are reported to it, isnt that thorough or have enough power to do that much.
 
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I’m increasingly of the opinion that a significant minority of men are sexually attracted to pre pubescent children, far far more than I ever realised.
They’re so defective. Overly sexual and overly violent. As a group, they disgust me.
 
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There have been reports of children of both sexes entering precocious puberty (or in the case of a little girl, becoming very hairy) because they had absorbed their fathers' testosterone gel (which I think was prescribed for erectile problems) through their skin in naked chest contact. (Not saying this contact is sinister - if dad is bare chested on a sunny day in the garden, he is likely to pick up a toddler in a bathing suit, sort of thing). I'm sure there have been at least three instances of this - and those are the reported and "written up? ones. There may be more.
 
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I agree with so much you write.
What is interesting though here about the difference between secular and non secular Islamic countries, are that places like Albania, Kosovo and the Five Stans are all ex communist states, and communism as an ideology doesn't tend to accept religions as part of their political systems! But having said this, I have also met and worked with plenty of non radical Islamists as well, so I dont think all of Islam is necessarily extreme!

I also think its interesting to see how extremism and cult behaviour, thinking of now, but also of Europe in the 1930s, eg Spain, Germany and Italy, and of course the USSR, seems to get worse at times of political and economic stress!!

But yes of course the government, should be exploring extremism from all directions a lot lot better.

Its easy to have systems like PREVENT to safeguard children, but as was made obvious by Axel, whatever his name was, this system, even if children are reported to it, isnt that thorough or have enough power to do that much.
The Koran is pretty extreme in parts. The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) started off being pretty chill and only attracted about 100 followers, then went extreme tribal aggressive expansivist, conquered Mecca and Medina, killed all the pagan Arabs and launched a mass following based on promising his followers booty, women, slaves and riches. It's mad stuff. Then again, Kings 1 & 2 in the Old Testament is mad stuff too. You wanna know what the ancient Israelites got up to? Child sacrifice, mass murder, it's all in there.

My point was more that there are many countries where the majority are Muslim and yet they're thriving economies based on the rule of law, women aren't oppressed and abused and no one thinks martyrdom, slavery and conquest are good ideas. The key for me is not the religion itself but how it's practised. Separation of state government and religious practice, imho, is VITAL for any country to develop into a first world country.

Take India, the chauvinist Hinduism practised by Modi and his followers is oppressing the Muslim population, is violent, backwards and deeply misogynist. For me it's about religion allied with political power, that's the deciding factor.

re: Communism, Facism and National Socialism (the latter is not the same as Facism and it drives me nuts when historically illiterate people elide them). I think it's telling that the twentieth century was probably the first totally post-Christian century in Europe and European Russia. Europeans thought they were so enlightened, embracing science and leaving fuddy Catholicism and Lutheranism behind. And what happened? The twentieth century turned out to be the bloodiest, most violent century ever known. Europe got rid of Christ. But their new religions - Communism, Facism and National Socialism - turned out to be far, far worse.

Religion allied with power can be a force for evil, as in Iran. However, religion, practiced in good faith and compassion, can be an important modifier of humanity's worst extremes.

We dismiss all religious faith at our peril. Equally perilous is practising faith blindly, chauvanistically, and seeing non-believers as less than human.

TDLR: Humans are complex and sweeping generalities are meaningless. Who'da thunk it?
 
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I would say that all Religions have a power grab at their inception. That is ultimately how religion came about. It started off as harmless ideas such as Paganism and then somebody thought hmm I can use this to gain land/women/cattle (insert any other goods) and a new cult religion would be born.
 
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Khomenei was the first Ayatollah after the Iranian revolution - but I'm sure the recent one wasn't any better



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Khomenei was the first Ayatollah after the Iranian revolution - but I'm sure the recent one wasn't any better



View attachment 3910887
It looks like this is the pdf he’s referencing:


Which I think he found via (only because that’s the only place I could find it):

 
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I’m increasingly of the opinion that a significant minority of men are sexually attracted to pre pubescent children, far far more than I ever realised.
They’re so defective. Overly sexual and overly violent. As a group, they disgust me.
I think sadly, you are right.
My memory is pretty shot right now (thanks peri menopause!) so the details are sketchy, but I know whenever it's reported in the news here or worldwide, about pedalo rings being 'busted' the sheer number of men involved is bleeping mind blowing!
There's the main perpetrators of course but also all the men that have accessed this sick material.
I think sometimes they quote figures like 1 in 3 men 🤢
Something is going VERY wrong with these y-chromosme possessors.
 
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Article from the Telegraph
My daughter’s all-girls school accepted a trans pupil – and refused to admit it

This is shocking

“My daughter has been taught, through the school’s actions and curriculum, that a boy who identifies as a girl is a girl. Ironically, some years ago, the school asked staff not to call pupils “girls” at all because it was not inclusive of those who consider themselves non-binary or male.
Ultimately, the school has forced my teenager to participate in another child’s delusion. And it has done so without my knowledge or consent.
My ability as a parent to have had those initial conversations with my daughter about the wider debate around transgender issues, the implications of allowing biological males into single-sex spaces and how comfortable she might feel about that, has been denied.

My daughter, unsurprisingly, is now completely indoctrinated into this ideology – she believes a man can be a woman simply by announcing he is, growing his hair, wearing make-up and acting in a vaguely “feminine” way.
The school has taught her to accept a boy into her single-sex spaces who says he is a girl, or a man who says he is a woman – no questions asked. Her boundaries about what is acceptable and what she is entitled to in terms of her privacy and dignity are completely skewed.”


Archived https://archive.ph/NVfPz
 
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This woman is asking straight questions about the sexual assault that took place during the girls' wrestling competition recently. It doesn't look as though she got a response.

 
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