I had to finally turn off and unsubscribe today. Firstly, Pandora recommends charity work to people who have been furloughed, as if they have infinite spare time. Interesting how we don’t see either of them stepping up to the plate with volunteer work during all of this. Must be too exhausting lounging around that cottage in Dorset. Then, not one mention of the Amy Cooper racism incident in Central Park. It just reeks of white privilege. Be an ally to people of colour for once in your life.
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Dolly aka Hannah is well known among her London peers for taking other people's love life mishaps or funny things that have happened to them and repurposing them as her own "hilarious" stories. On a hen do a few years ago, a friend was telling everyone a disastrous dating story and Dolly approached her afterwards to ask if she could claim the incident as her own for the purposes of her column & eventual book.... take everything she writes and says with a massive pinch of salt
I really like Dolly and Pandora and find quite a lot of this criticism unfounded. They are privileged and have both acknowledged this on a number of occasions. Beyond that what does it matter? I’d understand the annoyance if they denied it but they don’t and never have done?
The person who mentioned the posh name thing made me laugh. Hannah is Dolly’s real name and couldn’t be more run of the mill for someone born late 80s/early 90s and since when was having a nickname posh? Also the only other famous “Dolly” - Dolly Parton was dirt poor growing up so it’s a completely daft comment.
I like the book chat (that’s unashamedly a huge part of the podcast) and think the use of long intellectual words is inevitable for well read writers?
They’re both quick witted and talented writers and The High Low is what it says on the tin- it’s about books and news stories and happens to be hosted by two privately educated women. So what?
The person who mentioned the posh name thing made me laugh. Hannah is Dolly’s real name and couldn’t be more run of the mill for someone born late 80s/early 90s and since when was having a nickname posh? Also the only other famous “Dolly” - Dolly Parton was dirt poor growing up so it’s a completely daft comment.
I like the book chat (that’s unashamedly a huge part of the podcast) and think the use of long intellectual words is inevitable for well read writers?
They’re both quick witted and talented writers and The High Low is what it says on the tin- it’s about books and news stories and happens to be hosted by two privately educated women. So what?
Haha I completely get this!! I do know what you mean- sometimes it feels like books chosen are chosen because they’re woke or trendy or intellectual rather than for pure enjoyment’s sake. I do get what you mean by the worthy thing.@Kirstyy I don’t actually disagree with anything you’re saying, I don’t find them unlikable, I justgot bored by it, even if in theory it’s something I should enjoy (book chat etc). Somehow it’s just all a bit too, I don’t know, worthy somehow? I guess it’s a horses for courses thing.
Absolutely- people like what they like and obviously I have no issue with that I just find the constant criticism around them being posh boring and trite now. Nobody can help what they’re born into and yes it has given them a leg up career wise but SO many journalists are privately educated and they can’t be blamed for using their connections/opportunities as a result of their upbringing!
GTFO! This is a trash thread!I really like Dolly and Pandora and find quite a lot of this criticism unfounded. They are privileged and have both acknowledged this on a number of occasions. Beyond that what does it matter? I’d understand the annoyance if they denied it but they don’t and never have done?
The person who mentioned the posh name thing made me laugh. Hannah is Dolly’s real name and couldn’t be more run of the mill for someone born late 80s/early 90s and since when was having a nickname posh? Also the only other famous “Dolly” - Dolly Parton was dirt poor growing up so it’s a completely daft comment.
I like the book chat (that’s unashamedly a huge part of the podcast) and think the use of long intellectual words is inevitable for well read writers?
They’re both quick witted and talented writers and The High Low is what it says on the tin- it’s about books and news stories and happens to be hosted by two privately educated women. So what?
I definitely don't think they can be criticised for being privileged. Like you said they were born into it, and can't help it. I think I said earlier too that I have heard them acknowledge how it helped them to do their unpaid internships. I also read a column by Dolly criticising private education.
I don't even dislike them. I find Dolly a little tedious and try hard sometimes. But they are head and shoulders above a lot of influencers, at least they do work.
For me, sometimes it seems like they are acknowledging their privilege, and other times acting like they are just another normal woman without their means and opportunities, depending on what fits their current narrative. Not sure if this is intentional or not but just a feeling I get sometimes.
They can also be a little disappointing in the things they choose to cover on the podcast. Their choice as it's their podcast, but just my opinion as a viewer and why I'm not really a fan of it. For example like a poster said above, them not covering the MOD scandal because they apparently have the same management?
I don't even dislike them. I find Dolly a little tedious and try hard sometimes. But they are head and shoulders above a lot of influencers, at least they do work.
For me, sometimes it seems like they are acknowledging their privilege, and other times acting like they are just another normal woman without their means and opportunities, depending on what fits their current narrative. Not sure if this is intentional or not but just a feeling I get sometimes.
They can also be a little disappointing in the things they choose to cover on the podcast. Their choice as it's their podcast, but just my opinion as a viewer and why I'm not really a fan of it. For example like a poster said above, them not covering the MOD scandal because they apparently have the same management?
Fair enough, you’re a fan. This isn’t a rave thread so you may not like what you read.I really like Dolly and Pandora and find quite a lot of this criticism unfounded. They are privileged and have both acknowledged this on a number of occasions. Beyond that what does it matter? I’d understand the annoyance if they denied it but they don’t and never have done?
The person who mentioned the posh name thing made me laugh. Hannah is Dolly’s real name and couldn’t be more run of the mill for someone born late 80s/early 90s and since when was having a nickname posh? Also the only other famous “Dolly” - Dolly Parton was dirt poor growing up so it’s a completely daft comment.
I like the book chat (that’s unashamedly a huge part of the podcast) and think the use of long intellectual words is inevitable for well read writers?
They’re both quick witted and talented writers and The High Low is what it says on the tin- it’s about books and news stories and happens to be hosted by two privately educated women. So what?
I stand by my opinion that they try to present themselves as everywomen and often downplay their privilege - I am sure Dolly says something in her book about her upbringing being totally normal, but to me, a woman from a working class background, it absolutely isn’t. According to another post on this thread, they recently complained about being known as “posh podcasters”, but isn’t that what they are? If they are so open to admitting their privilege, why does that bother them?
I also stand by my point about their names. Dolly in the UK can have a very different connotation from in the US. Dolly Wells is the first person who comes to my mind - a privileged actress from a well-known London family. It doesn’t matter if it’s a nickname - it’s her professional name, and going by such a name professionally, in my opinion, takes the balls that growing up in privilege affords you.
Even if you don’t agree about Dolly, you can surely see the point about Pandora’s name! It was one factor I noted, amongst others, of how it’s obvious they are from rich backgrounds, as another poster didn’t recognise those factors. Seems a moot point for you to pick out anyway because you know they are privileged and according to you, they’ve never shied away from admitting that.
There are several other fair complaints made about them on this thread - their deliberate ignoring of MOD drama, after interviewing her previously, for example. I would say it’s a huge stretch to find this “unfounded”.
Amen!
I don’t so much have an issue with people’s privilege; the problem comes when people from privilege (such as Dolly and Pandagenuinely believe that they come from ‘completely normal’ backgrounds and upbringings.
With what is going on in the world at the moment, now is more a time than ever for people to open their eyes and realise truly how privileged they are.
Yes, it may be a very bitter pill to swallow to admit your privilege, but surely feeling guilty about it is better than being completely blind to it!
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Completely understand that this isn’t a rave thread and I do accept the criticism about them not mentioning MOD scandal etc. I’m not Pandora or Dolly haha so don’t take the criticism personally and can understand a lot of it I just think the “posh” criticism is a bit tired.
I stand by what I said about them acknowledging their privilege because they have done so. They don’t need to caveat every opinion or argument or anecdote that they have within the frame of their privilege - their upbringing is well known and that should be enough. They have tried to give a platform to working class and BAME authors on their podcast and of course they can do more but I do genuinely believe that they are trying and are conscious of the leg up that their background has given them.
With regards to their names I agree that Pandora is an indicator of class and which is why I didn’t highlight that point. Dolly is a chosen name and for me it doesn’t particularly convey her class but that’s just my opinion for the reasons I stated above.
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Exactly! I think that’s what we all have a problem with. You only have to look at the title and blurb of Pandora’s book to see she thinks she is speaking for the average woman. But she isn’t. She’s coming from a place of privilege and trying to speak for an experience she has not actually experienced is what pisses me off!
Pandora’s kids are similar in age to my sister’s children. I can quite categorically say that my sister’s experience of motherhood and juggling work with parenting is wildly different from Pandora’s, but it is Pandora who’s voice is heard in the media, because she had the means to get there.
I don’t expect them to caveat their every point with a disclaimer about their privilege, though. My problem is their representation of themselves as the everywoman, saying that their life experiences are entirely normal, presenting their lives as relatable. They have definitely downplayed their backgrounds at points, and that isn’t fair.
If they only spoke about literature and writing I wouldn’t have an issue. That’s their profession, their interest, their expertise, and I do appreciate that they share their platform with less connected writers from diverse backgrounds.
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Exactly! I think that’s what we all have a problem with. You only have to look at the title and blurb of Pandora’s book to see she thinks she is speaking for the average woman. But she isn’t. She’s coming from a place of privilege and trying to speak for an experience she has not actually experienced is what pisses me off!
Pandora’s kids are similar in age to my sister’s children. I can quite categorically say that my sister’s experience of motherhood and juggling work with parenting is wildly different from Pandora’s, but it is Pandora who’s voice is heard in the media, because she had the means to get there.
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Totally agree with that, I did read Dolly’s book and though I really do enjoy her style of writing, I kept thinking to myself ‘this isn’t how I grew up”. A few of my friends have read it as well, and we all had the same thoughts, lovely book and relatable about love and loss, but completely un-relatable in other ways.
The part in the book where she is in NY and claimed to have not a penny to live on etc, most of us who have been students from a working class background have experienced that as everyday living at some point in our lives! Not when we decide to go a jaunt to NY! That whole story made me feel uneasy.
Pandora’s kids are similar in age to my sister’s children. I can quite categorically say that my sister’s experience of motherhood and juggling work with parenting is wildly different from Pandora’s, but it is Pandora who’s voice is heard in the media, because she had the means to get there.
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Totally agree with that, I did read Dolly’s book and though I really do enjoy her style of writing, I kept thinking to myself ‘this isn’t how I grew up”. A few of my friends have read it as well, and we all had the same thoughts, lovely book and relatable about love and loss, but completely un-relatable in other ways.
The part in the book where she is in NY and claimed to have not a penny to live on etc, most of us who have been students from a working class background have experienced that as everyday living at some point in our lives! Not when we decide to go a jaunt to NY! That whole story made me feel uneasy.
Exactly! I think that’s what we all have a problem with. You only have to look at the title and blurb of Pandora’s book to see she thinks she is speaking for the average woman. But she isn’t. She’s coming from a place of privilege and trying to speak for an experience she has not actually experienced is what pisses me off!
Pandora’s kids are similar in age to my sister’s children. I can quite categorically say that my sister’s experience of motherhood and juggling work with parenting is wildly different from Pandora’s, but it is Pandora who’s voice is heard in the media, because she had the means to get there.
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So agree with this!
Pandora’s kids are similar in age to my sister’s children. I can quite categorically say that my sister’s experience of motherhood and juggling work with parenting is wildly different from Pandora’s, but it is Pandora who’s voice is heard in the media, because she had the means to get there.
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So agree with this!
Totally agree - I think they massively downplay their privilege, which is frankly insulting to their audience.
It's such a "posh girl" thing to use a nickname like "Dolly". I knew a girl at uni who called herself "Binky". Her name was Victoria, but her father used to call her "Stinky Binky" as a baby, and it stuck. Anyone who isn't posh would quickly abandon a nickname like that; only toffs can get away with it.
I Iove a good old WASP name, your Bunny, Tiggy, Flops, Bunty. So completely silly and indicative of a lack of need to live in the real world.
Dolly comes from Dolores usually which is quite a Catholic name and therefore not usually posh. A bit working class actually, like Queenie or something. Did she bestow it on herself?
Dolly comes from Dolores usually which is quite a Catholic name and therefore not usually posh. A bit working class actually, like Queenie or something. Did she bestow it on herself?
Isn't the fable around how she went from Hannah to Dolly, that it was because the kids in school thought she looked like Dolly the sheep.
Not sure I'd have kept that nickname. Going from some comments upthread, I'm not sure of the validity of it.
Not sure I'd have kept that nickname. Going from some comments upthread, I'm not sure of the validity of it.
I met them both at an event when they both still worked at the Sunday Times. Dolly kept running outside to smoke every five minutes and Pandora didn’t speak to anyone, stood with her arms folded for most of the event.
the nastiness that Pandora tweeted about was around this tweet
Also, as intelligent as they both are I think they are completely blinded by their privilege and are in that little circle jerk of white millennial women in the media who all appear on each other’s podcasts, blurb each other’s books and probably spend more time artfully arranging Instagram shots than engaging with social justice. And people need to stop talking about Dolly and Nora Ephron in the same sentence. At least Nora had *lived* a life before she wrote about it
the nastiness that Pandora tweeted about was around this tweet
Also, as intelligent as they both are I think they are completely blinded by their privilege and are in that little circle jerk of white millennial women in the media who all appear on each other’s podcasts, blurb each other’s books and probably spend more time artfully arranging Instagram shots than engaging with social justice. And people need to stop talking about Dolly and Nora Ephron in the same sentence. At least Nora had *lived* a life before she wrote about it
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