Critical Race Theory

[Zenchick101]

There was some sick WW2 propaganda promoting anti-white ness. Translation is, "in 100 years France will be a zoo."

View attachment 688195

About segregation, some of them are definitely anti-integration.

Yeah I've seen that before, and it's pretty ignorant considering France has some islands (ex.french polynesia) that are OLDER then some regions of metropolitan french and the POC from there are considered french (and voted to stay that way), and men from (french algeria at the time)algeria were drafted to fight in world war 2 then settled in metropolitan france.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

Interesting discussion here. Not related to CRT but more to woke-ism.

Are the arts in crisis? This is the question raised by the case of Winston Marshall, a musician recently in the chart-topping band Mumford and Sons. Marshall found himself ‘cancelled’ earlier this year for recommending the book of prominent Right-wing journalist Andy Ngo discussing his dealings with the radical Left militant group, ANTIFA.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

I wouldn't worry too much! A poll is not legally binding, we can all change our mind!

Back to CRT, I worry that the US is heading for a race war, as crazy as that might sound

It already did. BLM riots all throughout summer last year cost billions of dollars in damage with US politicians (including the current VP) encouraging them. Proof

I've traveled to different places in europe and also canada+usa and I just find North america in general to be unhealthily obsessed with race, both in the media and in everyday life.

UK isn't far behind.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

I think institutional racism does happen just as institutional sexism does happen. But CRT theorists like Robin Diangelo basically say that white people are always trying to uphold white supremacy and will always be racist. It's like original sin in the bible - humans are born bad.

I think it's not true, I think it's divisive and I think it's an unhealthy way to think. If we applied CRT concepts to sex, I think patriarchy exists and oppresses women but I don't think every single man in my life is oppressing me. I mean, some have obviously, but some men in my life have been there for me in my worst moments. Conversely, I've been horrifically bullied by other women.

This lady's story is interesting as she found that seeing life through the lens of CRT to be really psychologically damaging because she interpreted everything as having to be racism. If someone didn't hold a door for her or a cashier was rude or whatever the CRT answer was this is white supremacy, not the cashier hating their job or someone being self-centered.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Nyonyozimusic

However, there are some things that that I'm all totally for. E.g I think we need to do more in the UK about teaching about empire and the atrocities the UK committed, about the slave trade etc. I am also all for including non-european history, philosophy etc on curriculums and totally up for literature by more diverse authors being included in reading lists. While I read that race report commissioned by the tories with an open mind, I was not impressed by the fact that the authors seemed to think that what was needed was a patriotic education telling positive stories. Sometimes the most patriotic thing to do is to be able to own up to past mistakes. Germany teaches the third reich and the holocaust, why should we avoid learning about things like the Amritsar massacre?

White people didn't start slavery. The history of slavery spans many cultures, nationalities, and religions from ancient times to the present day. Cough, cough present day African continent and Middle East still having it.

UK was one of the first countries to abolish slavery way before US. Yes, the British empire did some atrocities but so did every other empire in history. Colonialism is not equal to Nazism.

What most people don't realise or have read is that the British Empire did a lot of great things like try and abolish Sati in India (widow burning on a pyre) and the caste system which was very backward and had a history of abuse. Through Commonwealth scholarships and other education, the empire has uplifted a lot of people for decades.

See below

 

[Zenchick101]

Yes, I am aware of the complex history of the slave trade and how a range of people, including African nations, were complicit. But other countries committing genocide doesn't mean Germans shouldn't learn about the holocaust.

Regarding Sati, it's important to note that there were Indian people who fought against that also:

Raja Ram Mohan Roy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's not that germans shouldn't learn about the holocaust but they should learn that they weren't the only ones who've historically committed atrocities?

 

[chocolatepeaches]

apart from a minority in the states, I agree. However when you listen to the CRT rhetoric from there that's very much the theory they use. Which I tend to think is outdated as well as the user above.

CRT is straight out of post modernism and communist countries of the past esp China's Cultural Revolution. You do NOT want to teach children in the West that. It's violent and just pure evil.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

Is it possible to still edit the poll? I'd say I'm not yet sure how I feel! Maybe I just kept my eye off the ball there for a little while, but it feels like 'critical race theory' popped up overnight and was everywhere before I even realised what it is!

I am unable to edit the poll if there is a way, do let me know. I am new to making threads and am happy to let y'all take the lead in moderating since I am not based in UK.

CRT but make it clown-ish

 

[thatstupidcat]

My understanding of Critical Race Theory was that it was originally an optional college-level course that ran alongside a typical Law degree at an American university a few decades ago. It was an academic course designed to examine systemic biases in American jurisprudence which negatively impacted predominantly non-white minorities - the specific wording of law, three strike rules, black men getting stiffer sentences for the same offences than their white peers etc.

It seems to have been taken out of an academic context and broadened and simply misrepresented, which is where just the mention of it gets everyone on both sides’ backs up.

Pre social media, there were loads of crazy and even Fortean-type university modules and courses that you’d never hear about. Ones where academics would be arguing to the point of trading blows about points of obscure philosophy that were far removed from real life. I even did one of the earlier Queer Studies modules at my old alma mater which predated modern identity politics and would undoubtedly be cancelled if presented nowadays - it was originally summarised as ”gay men fucking with enough Mrs Dalloway and Sylvia Plath to keep the dykes amused”.

I am somewhat skeptical by the dumbed down representation in both mainstream and social media - equally pushed by well-meaning reporters who don’t understand what they are writing about as well as the cynical muckraker types seeking to upset people for clicks and advertising.

I’m not denigrating any BAME-related studies - just trying to add context. I’m white and I don’t pretend to know or understand what the personal experiences of minorities in the UK are (how the fuck would I know?) but it seems that there are parallels between people’s defensive responses to discussions and the bollocks men say to women, e.g. NAMALT, I believe in equality, etc etc.

I honestly thing 99% of people are reasonable and try to do their best - social media can amplify and distort things.

I also firmly believe that while working class Brits are fighting amongst themselves over gender and racial politics by our coffee drinking over classes, we are the only ones who are going to suffer - especially as we compete over dwindling resources.

Finally, looking forward to the ”woke” generational types squealing like stuck pigs when their kids cancel them for being bigots…

 

[Scotch Mist]

imagine saying this the other way around..

Well exactly. She's pushing people away who agree with racial equality because they're a different colour to her. It makes no sense at all.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Well actually I have been told my colouring is exotic in places other than my home country and I took it as a huge compliment!

As for the hair thing, no one should touch anyone else against their consent (it's simply untrue that this doesn't happen to white girls). I don't know, if we're getting into a territory where even well meaning compliments are 'micro aggressions' that's not a healthy place to be IMO

This is what I mean by a lot of racism in the UK is hidden and people are quick to excuse it.


Only it's a lot different when you're black and possibly born in Britain or have lived here long enough that your parents/ancestors heritage isn't that relevant anymore
You're painted as an outsider/not British from the get go just because your skin colour/ethnicity is different

Hence why I said it depends on context and intent. As I said, some people of colour don't mind the question.

 

[Zenchick101]

Second is an update from clown world.

imagine saying this the other way around..

 

[Zenchick101]

Well exactly. She's pushing people away who agree with racial equality because they're a different colour to her. It makes no sense at all.

the one part of that video I agree with is that some people are faking that they're for racial equality and other social issues, for example woke bros who just pretend, to go with the flow. But that's it.

 

[Ensay]

As a white person who's never experienced racism, I don't really feel it's something I can talk much about. Though a few black friends recently called out some examples of microaggressions they'd experienced (not overt racism) and it really shocked me.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Nobody should touch anyone else's hair without consent but that's not a racist thing.

As for the 'where are you really from?' question I have some Asian friends who like that question because they're proud of their heritage and the opportunity to talk about it. Like everything else I guess it's all about context and intent.

 

[Merpedy]

that's exactly how I feel about it, call out proper racism when you see it

The huge problem with this in Britain is that so much racism is implied these days or somehow hidden that it really is not as simple as just calling it out. I dealt with someone like this and they would find ways to twist or simply dismiss being called out constantly because they didn't directly say it

Not sure how I feel about CRT though. It seems to have stemmed from America which deals with very different issues to the UK, and in modern society the issues are different in general. I think it would be good to be more honest about Britain's history with it's empires/Ireland (though I reckon my A-level history classes did that pretty well) but it's not really going to impact the society at large

 

[Zenchick101]

Now, disclaimer, I haven't always seen eye-to-eye with Candace Owens, but...

I hate this mindset that some ppl (mostly liberal men) have, where they learn something (AKA read it on twitter, hear it on tiktok) and feel themselves fit to speak over real life experiences and voices.

There's something that really gives me the heeby-jeebies about a white man getting angry that a black woman saying she doesn't feel she's being oppressed. If you're a progressive person, and the product of progress would be exactly that, why does it bother them?

Logan Paul is also an idiot. "White man standing up for POC" - savior complex?

Is there racism out there - yes. Is it on an institutional level? debatable (perhaps in some situations), if that's the case, point it out.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Also what are accomplices? She is a perfect example of where critical theory has gone wrong

 

[chocolatepeaches]

Discussing about the abomination taking over the world. Opinions, facts and discussion welcome!

 

[Zenchick101]

Again, not as easy
I'd argue that elements of institutional racism do exist but they're small enough to dismiss and, with the release of that racism in education report, a lot of people would point out that white working class boys underachieve more so actually... can it really exist?

Though generally and as I said, the problem with Britain is that racism is so hidden that a lot of people just choose to ignore it or counter it with other points

Perhaps, but unless someone points it out to me, I'm not going to be afraid of some invisible not-concrete boogeyman. also what do you mean by, can it really exist?

 

[Merpedy]

Well actually I have been told my colouring is exotic in places other than my home country and I took it as a huge compliment!

Exotic normally means different and it's not hard to see how that can be alienating for someone

I'm an Eastern European immigrant but my name is fairly normal and I've met or heard about people with the same name who are British. Someone learnt I was an immigrant and said my name was 'exotic' rather than simply pretty or nice or whatever other normal adjective you'd use for a name

Plus, if we really consider it. Not many people/no one would look at a white girl with blonde hair and say 'wow you look so exotic!' in Britain or probably any other Western country. If there is something eye catching about a person you'll probably compliment them about that specifically... of course, it may be a bit weird to start saying that people's skin is a nice colour but the implication of 'exotic' when referring to skin colour is pretty much exactly that