Critical Race Theory

[Aquamarina]

As a non-white person who finds the CRT stuff coming over from the US quite disturbing, I’m delighted that this thread has been started. As someone else stated over on the other thread, there are several prominent African American academics speaking out about the scourge of CRT and the damage that it is doing in US universities. People like Coleman Hughes and John McWhorter have some really interesting takes on it.

I also think that there is some truth in the theory posited upthread about young, white liberals trying to disassociate from their so-called ‘white privilige’ by trying to claim some sort of oppressed identity, hence the rise of the LGBThijklmnop etc labelling.

 

[Zenchick101]

I wouldn't worry too much! A poll is not legally binding, we can all change our mind!

Back to CRT, I worry that the US is heading for a race war, as crazy as that might sound

I've traveled to different places in europe and also canada+usa and I just find North america in general to be unhealthily obsessed with race, both in the media and in everyday life.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Racism exists but I think CRT causes a divide, rather than fixing anything

 

[Zenchick101]

Racism exists but I think CRT causes a divide, rather than fixing anything

that's exactly how I feel about it, call out proper racism when you see it, but it just seems as though people love placing others in categories and groups. I also think CRT (might be wrong) seems to place informal rules that don't always apply, as in only white people can be racist which isn't true.

 

[House of Tea]

This has been a strange few years. I was brought up in London, undeniably multicultural. I have had neighbours, acquaintances, colleagues and friends from all cultures. But in the last few years I am wary about engaging with people from different cultures in case I am accused of saying the wrong thing. There seems to be a fight brewing, where innocuous chat is being labelled as racist or a micro aggression, which devalues real racism.

There seems to be a lot of opportunism and a settling of scores, rather than an attempt to equalise things for everybody. It is simpler not to speak in depth to anybody who is not from the same background as me. Writing that a few years ago would have been inconceivable.In a short few years, the aggression about race has become so inflamed. Where we were once together, we are now apart. It suits somebody somewhere to have us all at each other’s throats.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Exactly, anyone can be racist. It's just statistically more likely that here in the West minorities will experience racism against them.

I'm all for teaching history (accurate history, not rewriting) but no, CRT is not a good idea. I was told recently that white women are oppressors over black women. I'm Irish and historically we have been oppressed by the British. Now, would it be better to teach history of what actually happened or should we teach British kids that they are the oppressor over Irish people based on history? No, because that would be absurd. I don't see how CRT is different in that regard

 

[D-ERF]

Now, disclaimer, I haven't always seen eye-to-eye with Candace Owens, but...

I hate this mindset that some ppl (mostly liberal men) have, where they learn something (AKA read it on twitter, hear it on tiktok) and feel themselves fit to speak over real life experiences and voices.

There's something that really gives me the heeby-jeebies about a white man getting angry that a black woman saying she doesn't feel she's being oppressed. If you're a progressive person, and the product of progress would be exactly that, why does it bother them?

 

[Zenchick101]

I am unable to edit the poll if there is a way, do let me know. I am new to making threads and am happy to let y'all take the lead in moderating since I am not based in UK.

CRT but make it clown-ish

It always shocks me how people like that want to be violent towards white people who had nothing to do with the oppression their ancestors faced? Maybe I'm missing something, but in France for example, there was a lot of french vs algerian violence during and after the independence war that ended in the early 1960's, which I find more understandable, because they had been colonized since 1830 and lived through all kinds of horrors. In this example the oppressed and oppressors were still alive and some still are today. But this.. it's just crazy. (look up black and white pictures on the internet if you want to be horrified)

Also the first girl is willingly segregating herself with "black spaces"..

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I think institutional racism does happen just as institutional sexism does happen. But CRT theorists like Robin Diangelo basically say that white people are always trying to uphold white supremacy and will always be racist. It's like original sin in the bible - humans are born bad.

I think it's not true, I think it's divisive and I think it's an unhealthy way to think. If we applied CRT concepts to sex, I think patriarchy exists and oppresses women but I don't think every single man in my life is oppressing me. I mean, some have obviously, but some men in my life have been there for me in my worst moments. Conversely, I've been horrifically bullied by other women.

This lady's story is interesting as she found that seeing life through the lens of CRT to be really psychologically damaging because she interpreted everything as having to be racism. If someone didn't hold a door for her or a cashier was rude or whatever the CRT answer was this is white supremacy, not the cashier hating their job or someone being self-centered.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Nyonyozimusic

However, there are some things that that I'm all totally for. E.g I think we need to do more in the UK about teaching about empire and the atrocities the UK committed, about the slave trade etc. I am also all for including non-european history, philosophy etc on curriculums and totally up for literature by more diverse authors being included in reading lists. While I read that race report commissioned by the tories with an open mind, I was not impressed by the fact that the authors seemed to think that what was needed was a patriotic education telling positive stories. Sometimes the most patriotic thing to do is to be able to own up to past mistakes. Germany teaches the third reich and the holocaust, why should we avoid learning about things like the Amritsar massacre?

 

[chocolatepeaches]

History tends to focus on both the good and the bad, and the problem with history in schools right now is that the ones focused on Britain only focus on the good, the mention of anything bad is ignored completely . Even Britain's role in the slave trade tends to be downplayed a bit and the majority of it falls onto America

I honestly think no school around the world is mentioning about the slavery in Middle East, Africa and China (Uyghurs et al).

We are heavily blaming the West for colonialism when we must actively sound the alarm about current day atrocities happening right now but oh well, white man bad.

 

[Ensay]

Nobody should touch anyone else's hair without consent but that's not a racist thing.

As for the 'where are you really from?' question I have some Asian friends who like that question because they're proud of their heritage and the opportunity to talk about it. Like everything else I guess it's all about context and intent.

Yeah there's not usually malicious intent behind it and my first reaction was similar to yours, but then they said: "I bet no one's ever said that to you?"

And it's true. When people ask where I'm from and I tell them, they accept my first reply. But when people don't accept their first reply (i.e. "I don't mean where you were born, I mean where your family comes from") it shows they see them as an outsider.

I should have been clearer with the hair remark - it was said by a female black friend who said it's white girls who would touch her hair and say: "oh wow it's so thick!" And, while it sounds like a compliment, they wouldn't do it to fellow white girls' hair.

They're all subtle, small and insidious things, but they do make a difference. And my first reaction was to kick back, but then I thought... why am I trying to defend other people's actions? These are my friends and they're telling me something that they see as minor racism, why would I argue with their experiences and how they're made to feel?

 

[chocolatepeaches]

This is some stupid take

 

[chocolatepeaches]

Hi everyone, I feel under the weather and am taking a short break from posting. All the negativity and toxicity from Twitter is truly draining. Will post clown world updates later and will lurk instead.

I hope all of you are doing well. Don't let the bastards get you down.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Is it possible to still edit the poll? I'd say I'm not yet sure how I feel! Maybe I just kept my eye off the ball there for a little while, but it feels like 'critical race theory' popped up overnight and was everywhere before I even realised what it is!

I wouldn't worry too much! A poll is not legally binding, we can all change our mind!

Back to CRT, I worry that the US is heading for a race war, as crazy as that might sound

 

[Scotch Mist]

the one part of that video I agree with is that some people are faking that they're for racial equality and other social issues, for example woke bros who just pretend, to go with the flow. But that's it.

Most definitely. Social media is full of virtue signalling with people popping up to denounce racism, homophobia, sexism and transphobia along with supporting action against climate change but a lot of it is just empty words.
Most of these people rattle off a 'correct' response then do nothing to actually make any difference in the real world. Half the time they haven't really given it any thought at all, it's just buzz words and meaningless posturing.

 

[Merpedy]

Questions like "where are you really from?", touching their hair, calling them "exotic", etc.

Those kind of small insidious things.

This is what I mean by a lot of racism in the UK is hidden and people are quick to excuse it.

As for the 'where are you really from?' question I have some Asian friends who like that question because they're proud of their heritage and the opportunity to talk about it. Like everything else I guess it's all about context and intent.

Only it's a lot different when you're black and possibly born in Britain or have lived here long enough that your parents/ancestors heritage isn't that relevant anymore
You're painted as an outsider/not British from the get go just because your skin colour/ethnicity is different

 

[Zenchick101]

Yeah there's not usually malicious intent behind it and my first reaction was similar to yours, but then they said: "I bet no one's ever said that to you?"

And it's true. When people ask where I'm from and I tell them, they accept my first reply. But when people don't accept their first reply (i.e. "I don't mean where you were born, I mean where your family comes from") it shows they see them as an outsider.

I should have been clearer with the hair remark - it was said by a female black friend who said it's white girls who would touch her hair and say: "oh wow it's so thick!" And, while it sounds like a compliment, they wouldn't do it to fellow white girls' hair.

They're all subtle, small and insidious things, but they do make a difference. And my first reaction was to kick back, but then I thought... why am I trying to defend other people's actions? These are my friends and they're telling me something that they see as minor racism, why would I argue with their experiences and how they're made to feel?

I totally understand since I've experienced it as well. "Where are you really from?" is truly irritating when you state where you're born. I've even been accused (several times) of lying and offered to show some I.D to this one asshole who wouldn't leave me alone. Or "if you're from x"(I just said I have some ancestry not that i'm from there pr*ck) "how big is your d*ck?". I always get questioned about my ancestry ESPECIALLY in north america, by people I barely know (ex.i'm buying milk at a corner store and this asian lady harshly says ; where are you from? sometimes where are you really from, so I always say the same thing back).
So I only tell people I know well so even if some assholes/ignorants wanted to make a remark like that they can't do it as much. I'm lucky enough that my ethnicity isn't that obvious to many people so I can reduce the amount of racist assholes I run into. I could tell you more stories like the ones I've shared above.

I do think it can be a matter of context, (ex. I tell a friend my full ancestry and he makes the wrong assumption that I have heritage from my foreign ancestry, then we talk it out and he understands what I mean) but there's also some minor racism in day to day interactions. That I believe, but when people say that institutional racism is a given for all POC, well I'd like someone to point it out, because I've never felt I've faced that but I might be missing something.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

Yes, I would agree with statement.



Sorry, it wasn't my intention to infer that the British Empire had. I mean, it may have, but I am not well versed enough about the British Empire in each country it colonized to say.

I just mean to say, just because other countries have been shit, doesn't mean the UK shouldn't own up to it's shit.

UK DID own up to its shit. What other empires do you know in history that still offers business, education and trade opportunities via the Commonwealth? Britain also offered citizenship to many of its colonies' citizens upto a certain time. Heck, Britain even offered citizenship to many Hong Kong protesters too.

The British government paid reparations totaling £20 million (equivalent to some £300 billion in 2018) to slave owners when it abolished slavery in 1833. Banking magnates Nathan Mayer Rothschild and his brother-in-law Moses Montefiore arranged for a loan to the government of $15 million to cover the vast sum – which represented almost half of the U.K. governent’s annual expenditure.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837

Is this NOT enough?

 

[Zenchick101]

I think it's also a question of assholes ruining it for everyone. Because of past experiences I tend to be turned off by people who when I first meet them make a comment about my looks/ethnicity, and respond well to people who want to get to know me first, then later ask.

Plus, if we really consider it. Not many people/no one would look at a white girl with blonde hair and say 'wow you look so exotic!' in Britain or probably any other Western country. If there is something eye catching about a person you'll probably compliment them about that specifically... of course, it may be a bit weird to start saying that people's skin is a nice colour but the implication of 'exotic' when referring to skin colour is pretty much exactly that

I've also found it weird that that happens in america+canada as well. The assholes like the ones I talked about, (white guy who I offered to show i.d), got really mad when I said he's not really canadian since he has no native american ancestry, and that I was simply using his logic, that I a french person, have more native french ancestry then him as a canadian have native canadian/american ancestry. Therefore I am more french then he is canadian.

In those places at least many white people see themselves as the default american/canadian, and I wonder why?

*Now this isn't to bash white people in general since I've met assholes of all ethnicities.

 

[chocolatepeaches]

It always shocks me how people like that want to be violent towards white people who had nothing to do with the oppression their ancestors faced? Maybe I'm missing something, but in France for example, there was a lot of french vs algerian violence during and after the independence war that ended in the early 1960's, which I find more understandable, because they had been colonized since 1830 and lived through all kinds of horrors. In this example the oppressed and oppressors were still alive and some still are today. But this.. it's just crazy.

Also the first girl is willingly segregating herself with "black spaces"..

There was some sick WW2 propaganda promoting anti-white ness. Translation is, "in 100 years France will be a zoo."

About segregation, some of them are definitely anti-integration.



Priti Patel has introduced the Nationality and Borders Bill, which could see refugees illegally coming into the UK jailed, and border officers given powers to use force to keep illegal immigrants away. Is this the right approach, and, if it is, is it enough? Douglas Murray, who in this week’s cover piece says more needs to be done, and Enver Solomon, CEO of the Refugee Council, join the show.

The guy from the Refugee Council wouldn't have a job if it stopped, that's why he and all the migrant charities are pro illegal immigration




Another good one with him and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.




Teaching children to hate themselves because of the color of their skin, hate their classmates because of the color of their skin, hate their country, hate their god, hate their parents is child abuse.