Coronavirus Disease Outbreak COVID-19 #105

[cubegame]

But then vaccines do not provide immunity, do they?

They just prevent serious illness?

I guess the problem is, that many people are not vaccinated and need to be protected and that some vaccinated people will still get seriously ill.

Well, if people have made the choice not to be vaccinated then they should be at liberty to take whatever risk they want to. I suspect there are not many people who are un-vaccinated by choice who also want restrictions.

As for those for whom immunity is not achievable through vaccination that is sadly unfortunate. They may have to wait until medical science catches up before they can have their old world back. This is a situation that has happened through the history of medicine.

 

[ordinaryjelly]

But then vaccines do not provide immunity, do they?

They just prevent serious illness?

I guess the problem is, that many people are not vaccinated and need to be protected and that some vaccinated people will still get seriously ill.

I am not vaccinated and I am not relying on anyone else to "protect" me.

My personal health is my own business and has never been the responsibility of anyone else.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

Well, if people have made the choice not to be vaccinated then they should be at liberty to take whatever risk they want to. I suspect there are not many people who are un-vaccinated by choice who also want restrictions.

As for those for whom immunity is not achievable through vaccination that is sadly unfortunate. They may have to wait until medical science catches up before they can have their old world back. This is a situation that has happened through the history of medicine.

I am not vaccinated and I am not relying on anyone else to "protect" me.

My personal health is my own business and has never been the responsibility of anyone else.

I guess that whoever falls seriously ill with the virus - regardless if they are un-vaccinated by choice and not wanting restorations - takes up the NHS resources. The slogan was "protect the NHS".

And this in return means more costs for the NHS, less availability for other patients (cancer patients etc) and a higher risk of infections for doctors and nurses.

Unless people that catch the virus and fall ill quietly stay at home and don't seek treatment and suffocate without bothering someone else if they cannot breathe and their lungs turn into Swiss cheese.

 

[monga]

Interesting, it seems that different immune responses are possible: https://www.immunology.org/news/immunity-and-covid-19-what-do-we-know-so-far



Does everyone make the same immune response to SARS-CoV-2?
No. The immune response varies hugely between different people. Some people create a very effective immune response, so they will not get sick again from SARS-CoV-2 and will not pass the virus to anyone else. Others will make antibodies and be protected from getting sick with COVID-19 but may still be infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and transmit it to others. Most people who are infected with SARS-CoV-2 make some form of immune response but whether this is effective at preventing reinfection in the future is not easy to determine.

We need to identity which immune markers (antibodies, T cells etc.) predict who is immune to COVID-19 and who is susceptible to either mild or severe disease. These markers will allow us to identify people who are at particular risk.

Are there any other factors that will have an impact on the level of immunity generated?
There are many factors that have an impact on the level of immunity generated, including age. Older people are less likely to make effective immune responses to infection, while there is evidence that children have a reduced antibody response to SARS-CoV-2.

Additionally, those people with weakened immune systems because of certain diseases or medication, will not be able to make as good an immune response as young healthy people.

How long does immunity to SARS-CoV-2 last?
As SARS-CoV-2 has only been around for a year, it is difficult to fully understand how long immunity lasts after infection. Current evidence suggests that antibody concentrations in the blood of people who have been infected do decline over time but can persist in some people for at least 8 months, and possibly longer, after infection. It has also been found that B and T cells that recognise SARS-CoV-2 are also present in the blood 8 months after infection. Exactly how long immunity will last will need a longer time to be determined but research into this is ongoing. For this reason, we do not yet know enough about the duration of protection to issue ‘immunity passports’.

Surely the same applies to vaccine passports nobody knows what an individual’s T cell response will be antibodies don’t always equal protection.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I am not vaccinated and I am not relying on anyone else to "protect" me.

My personal health is my own business and has never been the responsibility of anyone else.

Same! I will look after me the same as I always do.

I wish I could go into all the hospitals and find the real truth. My unvaccinated online friend is in hospital at the moment ith covid, the Dr said it's because she is unvaccinated and yet the other 7 ladies on the ward are all double and triple vaccinated. I have a friend who is a nurse and she said its both vaccinated and unvaccinated on the units

 

[ordinaryjelly]

I guess that whoever falls seriously ill with the virus - regardless if they are un-vaccinated by choice and not wanting restorations - takes up the NHS resources. The slogan was "protect the NHS".

And this in return means more costs for the NHS, less availability for other patients (cancer patients etc) and a higher risk of infections for doctors and nurses.

Unless people that catch the virus and fall ill quietly stay at home and don't seek treatment and suffocate without bothering someone else if they cannot breathe and their lungs turn into Swiss cheese.

Goodness. The NHS (and quite rightly) continues to treat those who are obese and become unwell with heart disease or diabetes, those who smoke and contract lung disease, those kids who ride scooters and break limbs. "Protect the NHS" was an utter nonsense, we have never had to protect the NHS from hear t diseases caused by smoking. The NHS is there to serve any and all at their hour of need irregardless of weight, vaccine status, age,....

That it is underfunded and under resourced is an entirely separate argument and has nothing to do with covid or vaccines.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I guess that whoever falls seriously ill with the virus - regardless if they are un-vaccinated by choice and not wanting restorations - takes up the NHS resources. The slogan was "protect the NHS".

And this in return means more costs for the NHS, less availability for other patients (cancer patients etc) and a higher risk of infections for doctors and nurses.

Unless people that catch the virus and fall ill quietly stay at home and don't seek treatment and suffocate without bothering someone else if they cannot breathe and their lungs turn into Swiss cheese.

What a nasty bit of work you are, I'm presuming those who are vaccinated and cant breathe are allowed to be seen through?

 

[ordinaryjelly]

Same! I will look after me the same as I always do.

I wish I could go into all the hospitals and find the real truth. My unvaccinated online friend is in hospital at the moment ith covid, the Dr said it's because she is unvaccinated and yet the other 7 ladies on the ward are all double and triple vaccinated. I have a friend who is a nurse and she said its both vaccinated and unvaccinated on the units

I was just in a specialist neurological ward and had many roommates who were vaccine injured. I am now in a neuro rehab hospital with 8 other patients, none of us have had the vaccine and this week a staff member tested positive and those in charge have let life carry on. Visits are allowed, none of us 'close contacts' have to do anything differently.

We will never know the real truth because in doing so it exposes this for what it was.

 

[cubegame]

I guess that whoever falls seriously ill with the virus - regardless if they are un-vaccinated by choice and not wanting restorations - takes up the NHS resources. The slogan was "protect the NHS".

And this in return means more costs for the NHS, less availability for other patients (cancer patients etc) and a higher risk of infections for doctors and nurses.

Unless people that catch the virus and fall ill quietly stay at home and don't seek treatment and suffocate without bothering someone else if they cannot breathe and their lungs turn into Swiss cheese.

But the NHS could save themselves a lot of time and effort by reducing their infection control (ludicrous amounts of time and money spent on PPE) measures in line with the post-vaccine world. Just ending testing and the utterly wasteful Test & Trace will provide a much needed cash boost.

A sensible government would then spend time going after every penny that so-called health providers have scammed from them.

Of course, what we actually have is people (including the health secretary) clamouring for unvaxxed health staff to be sacked.

Has anyone seen how well that working in British Columbia?

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

Goodness. The NHS (and quite rightly) continues to treat those who are obese and become unwell with heart disease or diabetes, those who smoke and contract lung disease, those kids who ride scooters and break limbs. "Protect the NHS" was an utter nonsense, we have never had to protect the NHS from hear t diseases caused by smoking. The NHS is there to serve any and all at their hour of need irregardless of weight, vaccine status, age,....

That it is underfunded and under resourced is an entirely separate argument and has nothing to do with covid or vaccines.

Well, to be fair doctors and nurses would advise to a) exercise and eat healthily if someone is obese, and b) stop smoking and drinking if someone is a smoker or an alcoholic.
So why is there a backlash if they advise unvaccinated people to get vaccinated?

And an important distinction is that a smoker doesn't infect anyone else with lung cancer, and an obese person doesn't cause someone else to have a heart attack.
But the virus can be passed on from patient to doctor/nurse and looking at how many nurses and doctors have died it did happen more than once.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I was just in a specialist neurological ward and had many roommates who were vaccine injured. I am now in a neuro rehab hospital with 8 other patients, none of us have had the vaccine and this week a staff member tested positive and those in charge have let life carry on. Visits are allowed, none of us 'close contacts' have to do anything differently.

We will never know the real truth because in doing so it exposes this for what it was.

None of it makes sense. My best friend has neurological problems they had got so much better, she was almost back to normal.. then she had the vaccine. she is a different person. I cant chat with her or anything anymore I can't explain it, but she isn't her. Its like she has gone and a imposter has taken over

 

[JLXRD]

Haha he really is the wettest wipe I’m not Welsh and I actually wish I didn’t live here because of that man. Luckily most of my family and friends are over the river so I can seek refuge in my “home country” when Drakeford starts going on his little power hungry rampages

I feel like I only pop back into this thread now to incite some hatred for Drakeford every so often

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

What a nasty bit of work you are, I'm presuming those who are vaccinated and cant breathe are allowed to be seen through?

I don't appreciate being spoken to in this way.
But it reminds me of what The Queen said when she got her vaccine: "You should think about other people, not just yourself".

If I were unvaccinated and had to go to hospital due to the virus I would be terrified to infect a doctor or nurse.
Vaccinations are not just for yourself, but also the people around you.

AND: If someone wants to rely on hospitals etc then they are not solely responsible for their own health, then they would seek help from others.

 

[DaisyDeluxe]

I don't appreciate being spoken to in this way.
But it reminds me of what The Queen said when she got her vaccine: "You should think about other people, not just yourself".

If I were unvaccinated and had to go to hospital due to the virus I would be terrified to infect a doctor or nurse.
Vaccinations are not just for yourself, but also the people around you.

AND: If someone wants to rely on hospitals etc then they are not solely responsible for their own health, then they would seek help from others.

Even though you could still infect a doctor/nurse despite being vaccinated? What part of "being vaccinated doesn't stop you spreading it" are people not getting?

 

[monga]

I don't appreciate being spoken to in this way.
But it reminds me of what The Queen said when she got her vaccine: "You should think about other people, not just yourself".

If I were unvaccinated and had to go to hospital due to the virus I would be terrified to infect a doctor or nurse.
Vaccinations are not just for yourself, but also the people around you.

AND: If someone wants to rely on hospitals etc then they are not solely responsible for their own health, then they would seek help from others.

Vaccination doesn’t stop you from catching or passing it on people shouldn’t be made feel guilty for passing on a virus that they have no control over, vaccinated or not

 

[ordinaryjelly]

I don't appreciate being spoken to in this way.
But it reminds me of what The Queen said when she got her vaccine: "You should think about other people, not just yourself".

If I were unvaccinated and had to go to hospital due to the virus I would be terrified to infect a doctor or nurse.
Vaccinations are not just for yourself, but also the people around you.

AND: If someone wants to rely on hospitals etc then they are not solely responsible for their own health, then they would seek help from others.

Being vaccinated doesn't stop you passing the virus on though. So you'd still be terrified.

I am responsible for my health, my health is not societies responsibility.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I don't appreciate being spoken to in this way.
But it reminds me of what The Queen said when she got her vaccine: "You should think about other people, not just yourself".

If I were unvaccinated and had to go to hospital due to the virus I would be terrified to infect a doctor or nurse.
Vaccinations are not just for yourself, but also the people around you.

AND: If someone wants to rely on hospitals etc then they are not solely responsible for their own health, then they would seek help from others.

So you think it's ok to speak as you did, but no one can pull you up on it? People here have had loved ones die of covid how do you think that part of your post affected them?

I have everything I need here if I catch covid and would never go into hospital again even though I have paid into it for most of my 63 years

.
.
.I don't feel its a CT any longer that some of us live in a different reality to others. No matter how many times it said both unvaccinated and vaccinated are catching it and passing it on, they only hear "unvaccinated" and repeat their mantras.

Interesting yet bizarre * said in David Attenborough's voice*

 

[jackolantern]

I guess that whoever falls seriously ill with the virus - regardless if they are un-vaccinated by choice and not wanting restorations - takes up the NHS resources. The slogan was "protect the NHS".

And this in return means more costs for the NHS, less availability for other patients (cancer patients etc) and a higher risk of infections for doctors and nurses.

Unless people that catch the virus and fall ill quietly stay at home and don't seek treatment and suffocate without bothering someone else if they cannot breathe and their lungs turn into Swiss cheese.

So by your logic, vaccinated people who get seriously ill from COVID, largely due to lifestyle choices such as obesity etc which is a huge known factor in becoming very sick with the virus - it’s ok for them to use resources because they are vaxxed. But someone who has an extremely healthy lifestyle, unvaxxed and just unlucky - they don’t deserve help?

There is a HUGE reason healthcare isn’t restricted to how “worthy” you are deemed, as if it was - all of us would be fucked. No one is perfect.

If an unvaxxed person isn’t worth resources, neither is a fat person, an alcoholic, an extreme sports enthusiast, a drug addict, etc etc.

Your point that they can’t affect someone else is null. They might not spread a virus but they still use resources that strain the NHS making it less available for others.

Also, as so many sources keep showing - vaccinated people spread the virus just as much as unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated deserve to die because we won’t have a vaccine that ‘helps’ us alone? If you feel that way, I expect to start seeing some more stringent criteria on who else doesn’t deserve healthcare, because I’m no less worthy than someone who is 30 stone, smokes 50 a day and takes recreational drugs. But it’s ok! They are jabbed! Business as usual aye!

What has the world come to - how apt.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

Even though you could still infect a doctor/nurse despite being vaccinated? What part of "being vaccinated doesn't stop you spreading it" are people not getting?

Vaccination doesn’t stop you from catching or passing it on people shouldn’t be made feel guilty for passing on a virus that they have no control over, vaccinated or not

Being vaccinated doesn't stop you passing the virus on though. So you'd still be terrified.

I am responsible for my health, my health is not societies responsibility.

Well:
1) Because I am fully vaccinated I am less likely to become so seriously ill from the virus that I have to go to hospital.
2) Because of this I am a lot less likely to give it to a doctor or a nurse as I am a lot less likely to be in hospital in the first place.

And I posted a link above: Apparently people react differently to the vaccine and some don't catch the virus so easily after they had it.

So you think it's ok to speak as you did, but no one can pull you up on it? People here have had loved ones die of covid how do you think that part of your post affected them?

I have everything I need here if I catch covid and would never go into hospital again even though I have paid into it for most of my 63 years

.I don't feel its a CT any longer that some of us live in a different reality to others. No matter how many times it said both unvaccinated and vaccinated are catching it and passing it on, they only hear "unvaccinated" and repeat their mantras.

Interesting yet bizarre * said in David Attenborough's voice*

I didn't meant to offend anyone.
I am just saying that in my view (!) I am not just responsible for myself but also for the health of other people.

I also don't drink and drive for example.

And to be honest: if someone is careless with their health and then goes to hospital and makes someone else ill - then I think they are being selfish and inconsiderate if this could have been avoided.

 

[Kim Mild]

This is a global pandemic. If we know there are preventative measures why would we not use them? This applies to the common cold and flu. This is not about guilt tripping, but it is about trying to reduce transmission and spread. If not one person tested or followed any measures, we would be in a very different situation.

But this is a known virus that we can test for and so transmissions can be prevented.

If your partner had HIV or syphilis and gave it to you - would you also say "that's life"?

Every hygienic measure - washing hands after toilet use, doctors and surgeons using masks and gloves etc - aims to prevent transmission from illness.
Would you say that all of this is unnecessary?



Yes, this is how I feel.

If everyone would disregard all safety measures all hospitals would have run out of equipment fast, a significant number of vulnerable people would have died and many more people would be suffering from long term consequences.

Preventative measures aren't a new thing since 2020, handwashing and covering mouth/ nose coughing or sneezing are something that I always thought people did automatically.

Some of the tests , especially the Lateral flows give a false sense of security as they there is scope for user error or people test at the wrong time meaning the people who have taken a test can go our to transmit.

Then there are people who get a negative pcr and are out spreading their non- covid 19 respiratory virus ( but that's OK cos they tested negative) .

There doesn't seem to be much pattern to who catches covid . Nobody knows if they person someone caught covid from took every precaution.

It's all getting a bit 'don't kill granny' again