Constance Marten case - missing mum

[Silverback]

So this poor baby would have been the third child she had taken away from her? I’m sorry but she is an awful piece of shit. I get what is being said about coercive control (I’ve been in that kind of abusive relationship situation myself) BUT to be such an appalling mother is beyond reproach. I grew up with a mother that always put herself and her boyfriend first and the effects on me were utterly devastating. He may have been an arsehole but she had the chance to get me away from him every single day. She didn’t. She stuck by him. And that is exactly what I see has happened here.

 

[Cucumberthunder]

It's possible to be both a victim and a perpetrator. And that's what I think has happened here. What she has done to the baby is abhorrent, but I don't doubt she has suffered through all of this. She will need significant help as well as punishment for what she has done.

 

[BigMavis]

Didn't need to happen. Bad choices. Bad decisions. An inability to listen to professionals who had the the best intentions regarding the welfare of children involved with these very irresponsible people.
Sad. Senseless. Unnecessary suffering.

 

[Okgolightly]

Yes, or a pre-existing condition, or a genetic condition which is known to authorities but not the general public.

Or maybe they are just two really shitty, selfish people who do deserve what’s coming to them.

We don’t know.

All we know is that a baby has died.
And a mother is grieving. Again. After losing older children, she has now lost a baby. A baby she tried desperately - rightly or wrongly - to keep in her care. Something went wrong and she wasn’t able to keep that baby safe.

Maybe she is an awful person. I don’t know. But I am a mother and I can’t imagine her pain.

I may come across as an evil bitch but I actually couldn’t give a flying fuck about what pain she is it isn’t in. She wasn’t able to keep that baby safe from the minute she made the decision to go on the run with her partner. She also wasn’t able to keep the other 3 children she had taken off her safe either, so you would think that at some point she would have gotten a clue as to her completely inability to competently care for her children. No. She has no sympathy from me. I reserve it all for her innocent little baby and her other children.

 

[Gossngiggles]

I just can’t imagine how she is feeling tbh. She seemingly gave birth without assistance, walked however far when the car caught fire and has travelled distances around the country while dealing with bleeding and after pains and leaky boobs and all the emotions that come along with birth/post birth hormones and who knows if she might have any birth injuries. Really concerning.

 

[Pinklobster]

I live a few miles from where they were last seen. No one will bat an eyelid to be honest I don’t even know my neighbours. It’s different in London.

I think the tent was to throw off the police. How can no other purchases be picked up on CCTV. There’s plenty of cash in hand sublet rentals on gumtree.

The man’s conviction was in 1989 when he was 14. He’s near 50s and she’s mid 30s. Both two consenting adults. There’s no bail or arrest warrant. - someone previously says on this thread why has the police not warned they are dangerous - probably because they are not.. however They must be of some kind of sound mind and not out of it that much on substances which have been suggested to have the ability to run this long from the police. So I am literally one of the people on FB saying let them live as long as the baby is well because there are missing vulnerable children who are not given the same media attention or monetary rewards and it’s heart breaking.

we are the only country to have secret courts, so say they were found and baby was removed etc. they the parents could never have their side of the story reported in the press. They can never discuss their case only with their solicitor.

secondly we are the only country in Western Europe to have an “at risk emotional abuse” clause. This was introduced by the tories Michael gove years ago. This gives social services the power to remove a baby at birth, without the parents ever given a chance. Without there being any evidence of harm.
given the dad had a serious criminal past this wouldn’t of done him any favours like with to ex drug addicts, ex MH ex care leavers etc and anyone with a past.
It’s cheaper and easier to remove a child at birth in this situations based on “at risk of emotional harm”. We don’t hear about cases because of secret courts.

A few years ago an Italian woman who came here for a course had a manic episode whilst pregnant. She had a C section against her will and baby removed from birth. Reasons were “at risk of emotional harm” The only reason why this was media reported was because she was Italian and the Italian government and press reported it which removed UK press restrictions.

the baby hasn’t been registered for a reason so that it’s harder for SS to make court proceedings for custody of the baby. If they’d had court proceedings it would’ve been much easier for them.

there is a solicitor called Ian Joseph’s that helps fund parents who are at risk of loosing their babies at birth. He encourages them to go to Ireland or France where “at risk of emotional abuse” doesn’t exist and most families who would’ve lost their baby to adoption here are allowed to keep them abroad.

Oh lord, where to start! I am directly involved in these types of decisions on a daily basis, and this level of misinformation does so much harm! So much harm. I was also involved with the Italian case you mentioned, what you said happened? Didn’t happen. There was much more to it. Cheaper and easier? For whom? SS? Don’t make me laugh. The outcome for children who are removed from birth parents and moved through the foster/care system is bleak - poor outcomes, hugely expensive, hugely damaging, hugely time consuming and SS have to them support until the care leaver is 25 as opposed to 18. I don’t mind people having a different view, but to perpetuate this nonsense really doesn’t help.

 

[Polythene Pam]

I can't stop fixating on the fact they left their dead baby in the bushes and went off to buy fish and chips. What the fuck does it take to be that desensitised to the death of your child? It's unfathomable.
I really hope they both get locked up for a long time but sentences for gross negligence manslaughter can be low. Kayleigh Titford's parents got 7.5 years (dad) and 6 years (mom who pleaded guilty)

 

[Polythene Pam]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Like I said not everyone is going to be heyyyy social workers I know you want to take my baby from me, here take them . Might be a bizarre concept to some.

A decent parent would put their child's needs before their own. This pair are clearly absolutely incapable of doing that and that alone makes them unfit to be parents.

 

[maytoseptember]

I’m absolutely not defending anything that CM or MG have done, not at all.

I absolutely do not think fleeing to hide a newborn is the right thing to do.

But there’s a whole lot of judgement going on when there are very few facts known.

I’m very comfortable judging two people who have left a trail of destruction (and now death) in their wake since they met.

 

[Patsy Stone]

By refusing to provide the baby’s whereabouts they are proving SS right they are not fit to parent/at risk to children IMO.

 

[philopastry75]

I know a woman who had 4 children into care as toddlers/ young children and by the time she got pregnant with baby 5 the decision was to remove the baby at birth. She also fled for hid for 2 weeks after the birth before she was found and the baby fostered. The damage caused by the neglectful upbringing of the older children before being taken into care/ adopted is far more evident than it is in the child who was removed shortly after birth. SS don't take babies for the hell of it, it just doesn't happen despite what some Facebook groups might say. They take babies at birth because the child deserves to be looked after properly, safely and without neglect.

The need for a baby can be primal but the care and effort needed to raise a child is beyond that.

 

[Cucumberthunder]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Like I said not everyone is going to be heyyyy social workers I know you want to take my baby from me, here take them . Might be a bizarre concept to some.

People demonising social services does nothing to help anyone. Taking babies away is a last resort, and clearly this family needed some help - sex offender for a dad, mum potentially being coercively controlled, with substance issues - these are the people who SS want to support. If they'd have engaged early in the pregnancy with the range of support services the outcome could've been massively different.

 

[PatienceImpatient]

The twitter comments on this are diabolical.

So many of them suggesting this is about race, that the police are only hunting them because a black man has (in the eyes of the police/media) ‘kidnapped’ a wealthy, aristocratic white woman. I find this infuriating. It’s nothing to do with race and everything to do with the wellbeing of an innocent little baby. They were being hunted because they have previously had kids removed and, as others have suggested, given Constance’s wealth and status the reasons for removal must have been extreme.

The other tweets that are ridiculous are those suggesting that they were only hunting for her BECAUSE of her wealth and social status. As if. I mean could you imagine the absolute shit storm if a working-class mum went on the run with her newborn after other kids had been removed? The public would be urging the police to find her, not be questioning why she did it!

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

The other proof is that she’s an upper class, well off woman so like it or not, she’s had a much better chance at avoiding SS than a girl from the local council estate because she’s got a family, a lot of money and more resources to be able to prove herself.

I think SS do generally do the best they can in some very complex situations but I also believe that like most things in this country, they do treat people from different backgrounds differently - the proof of this is that if the McCanns had been from south shore and on benefits not middle class doctors, they’d have had the twins removed for neglect, or at least further action taken, for leaving them alone in a foreign country not the outpouring of unmitigated sympathy they initially got (I know people started questioning later).

 

[Mokie]

There has been rightly in my opinion a lot of criticism of the police in recent times. My heart goes out to the officers involved in this case.

 

[Lazarus]

I think a lot of the comments here are portraying her as the victim in all of this; largely an assumption based on his criminal conviction.
I’m no sympathiser of his, but we have little evidence that he is the controlling one in this. What if there’s no controller?
She’s reported to have been radicalised by a Nigerian cult; I don’t recall seeing any mention of him being in the same cult/group as her. Aside from the colour of his skin, we don’t know much about his cultural heritage and whether he fits into this part of her life.
She could be the controller, or they could simply be as bad as each other.

I was truly disappointed to see someone share a photo of one of her other children in this thread. Regardless of where they’ve been shared elsewhere; those children are not in her custody and deserve privacy. I think it’s unfair of us to speculate about whether the children are his or who is looking after them now.

I scratch my head with wonder every time I see a suggestion that the baby is still alive; I’m sorry to say I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that baby is deceased.

IMO, both of them are equal in this. They’ve neglected their newborn baby to the point it has most likely died, and they’re refusing to give it the dignity of any acknowledgment or burial.

I have to say his conviction for a sexual assault decades ago isn’t really primary in my concerns here. She presumably knew his history when she got with him; she was a consenting adult and made that choice for herself. I do not see her as a victim at all.

 

[Mokie]

For those asking what they have been arrested for……

I used to work alongside maternity services. For some Mums there would be a court order in place for the baby to be removed at delivery. This was when there was risk of harm to that baby for many different reasons - drug use, risk of neglect/harm or if previous children had been taken into care for similar reasons. Decisions like this were multi disciplinary and the courts/legal would also be involved.

The Mums would usually been closely monitored by SS and safeguarding teams throughout the pregnancy due to the risk of them disappearing.

The police will only be able to release scant information due to the duty of confidentiality that is owed to the previous children and the unborn baby. This is a terribly sad case.

 

[DellaC]

Sweet jesus I'd hope they wouldn't just throw there baby away and he/she be in landfill. The thought is horrifying.

I mean the whole thing is horrifying but that thought is far too much to process.

I struggle to see Constance as a victim at the moment: Coercive control, cult, PTSD, MH..bla bla. Some women are just bad and should not have children.

Tell the police where your little baby is you wretched woman.

 

[Polythene Pam]

They were living in a tent BECAUSE of social services wanting to take the baby. People so desperate to keep their child shouldn't have been hunted like dogs.

What do you think should happen then? Parents that have been proven to be a danger to their children should be allowed to keep having kids?
The threshold for removal of children is high.

 

[maytoseptember]

Well to a point I can see why they'd keep it a secret to let the baby rest in peace and not be dug up
Not that I'm defending them at all, but can see logical reasons why someone might not want to tell the police.

Nah, sorry, I don’t believe there would ever be any justification for burying a baby’s body in a shallow grave, with no marker and no dignity, and keeping it all secret because you want them to “rest in peace”.

It’s because you don’t want to be convicted of causing their death.

There’s no devil’s advocate to be played here.